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Why people still love XP

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Reply 80 of 107, by dr_st

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 23:26:

There's a joke video from 2008 that gives a good impression:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVO8RU9h88k

Since it's from so long ago, maybe it qualifies as a historic document already? 😉

Well, the configuration of Linux is still spread across the entire hard drive inside text files with strange names, some of which end in 'd' and begin with a dot. And you even have configuration directories ending with '.d' now! 🤣

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Reply 81 of 107, by Caluser2000

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dr_st wrote on 2021-09-01, 04:51:
Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 23:26:

There's a joke video from 2008 that gives a good impression:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVO8RU9h88k

Since it's from so long ago, maybe it qualifies as a historic document already? 😉

Well, the configuration of Linux is still spread across the entire hard drive inside text files with strange names, some of which end in 'd' and begin with a dot. And you even have configuration directories ending with '.d' now! 🤣

And they serve a good purpose....😉

dot files have been around for ever so nothing new at all. Folk better get use to them running Windows Subsystem for Linux. MS couldn't even get that name right .......

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Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 82 of 107, by canthearu

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 23:26:

My sister's older laptop is barely usable anymore, because Windows is constantly doing strange things in the background.

Windows 7/8/10 work fine as long as your hardware isn't crap, and try to keep the configuration as close to default as possible. If you can't change it in the standard configuration dialogs, then it might be a setting that breaks later on you.

If you are running windows 10 on a hard drive rather than an SSD, you are not in for a happy time.
If you try to put windows 7-10 on an Atom or E350 CPU or other miserably slow CPU, then again, you are not in for a happy time.

If you run a whole heap of "optimisers" and other utility software trying to make windows better, again, you will not have a happy time, because all that software tends to break things more than fix things.

Now that isn't to say that Windows 7/8/10 will be your cup of tea, in which case, you are totally within your right to use something else, but I feel a good portion of the people who have trouble with Windows 10 would do a lot better if they just made sure their hardware was up the task and tried to force fewer changes into their configuration.

Reply 83 of 107, by dormcat

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 23:26:

My sister's older laptop is barely usable anymore, because Windows is constantly doing strange things in the background.

Just curious:

1. What's the hardware specifications of her laptop?
2. Has she tried a clean install i.e. an ISO directly from MS and install via USB flash drive or DVD? Not a "factory preset" as many laptops contain tons of preinstalled bloatware.

Reply 84 of 107, by Carrera

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canthearu wrote on 2021-09-01, 05:24:
Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 23:26:

My sister's older laptop is barely usable anymore, because Windows is constantly doing strange things in the background.

If you are running windows 10 on a hard drive rather than an SSD, you are not in for a happy time.

I can confirm that. We have an older HP Elite Book and it was getting dog slow.
Even after tweaking it like crazy and adding the maximum amount of RAM it was still slow.
I swapped in an SSD and it loads almost faster than my 4 month old computer!

Reply 85 of 107, by dr_st

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Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-09-01, 05:04:

Folk better get use to them running Windows Subsystem for Linux. MS couldn't even get that name right .......

That bothers you? How about the fact that 64-bit DLLs are in System32, while 32-bit DLLs are in SysWow64? 😜

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Reply 86 of 107, by gerry

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dr_st wrote on 2021-09-01, 04:51:
Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 23:26:

There's a joke video from 2008 that gives a good impression:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVO8RU9h88k

Since it's from so long ago, maybe it qualifies as a historic document already? 😉

Well, the configuration of Linux is still spread across the entire hard drive inside text files with strange names, some of which end in 'd' and begin with a dot. And you even have configuration directories ending with '.d' now! 🤣

that video is gold! it may be old but it highlights something that was very true then and still a little but true for some now

Many linux users appeared to like the the fact that filenames were each a random permutation of 5 or less letters from the alphabet (light on vowels!) strewn all over the place and all the other obscure stuff. They liked feeling as if they had knowledge and power because of it, but it was more like an illusion of superiority in knowing arcana and obscure things in an of itself not because it was deeply revealing. It's true that other linux/unix users did get more deeply involved and understood things rather than just getting a nerdy high from typing commands of consonants, slashes and a few $%& in the mix just to get the same effect as a double click

there is a connection between linux users of the XP era and us now, with our fragile vintage systems - we spend a lot of time just trying to get things to work 😀

How things moved on, ironically these days i use whatever linux distribution i choose just as it is, very little tinkering at all because it usually works fine - but spend more time configuring things on windows!

Reply 87 of 107, by gerry

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canthearu wrote on 2021-09-01, 05:24:
Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 23:26:

My sister's older laptop is barely usable anymore, because Windows is constantly doing strange things in the background.

Windows 7/8/10 work fine as long as your hardware isn't crap, and try to keep the configuration as close to default as possible. If you can't change it in the standard configuration dialogs, then it might be a setting that breaks later on you.

If you are running windows 10 on a hard drive rather than an SSD, you are not in for a happy time.

the idea that a multi core, especially a quad core laptop with an HDD released in the last few years, even with budget level components, is not able to cope well with the operating system simply operating as designed is completely, and without any reasonable counterpoint, the failure of the operating system. If the machine fits the specs it should work without being periodically crippled for an hour or so, there is no excuse.

really Microsoft should simply up the min specs or have a 'poor performance but it works' band at the low end

Reply 88 of 107, by gerry

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 23:26:
Well, it happened a few times to me. Hm, let me think.. I think Virtual PC 2007 was one of the applications it removed. […]
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gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

i've never known windows to uninstall something that i installed without me involved!

Well, it happened a few times to me. Hm, let me think..
I think Virtual PC 2007 was one of the applications it removed.

Here's an article that mentions other programs.

https://www.howtogeek.com/243581/windows-10-m … without-asking/

ah i see - interesting thank you, its all about 'compatibility'

Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 23:26:
gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

windows 11 will introduce hardware constraints related to 'security' and also appears not to have offline install mode, that may be the point where there is no point in using windows anymore - the use of PC's and laptops relative to other devices is dropping anyway, not so sure PC gaming future as big as its past anyway

I see. And it looked so promising at first. 🙁
I hope these things will change before Windows 11 reaches RTM status.

probably, they usually do compromise at some point

Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-09-01, 21:45. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 89 of 107, by canthearu

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gerry wrote on 2021-09-01, 09:46:

the idea that a multi core, especially a quad core laptop with an HDD released in the last few years, even with budget level components, is not able to cope well with the operating system simply operating as designed is completely, and without any reasonable counterpoint, the failure of the operating system. If the machine fits the specs it should work without being periodically crippled for an hour or so, there is no excuse.

really Microsoft should simply up the min specs or have a 'poor performance but it works' band at the low end

It is really piss poor that OEMs have still been releasing hardware with HDDs as the main storage. SSDs have been mainstream for 10 years now.

And I agree, Microsoft should really just come out and say Windows 10 is for SSDs only! But of course, the OEMs cry about it, because they can't make their ultra useless cheap systems anymore, so microsoft relents and tarnishes it's own name in the process.

And don't get me started on the whole 64GB eMMC storage debacle. There is no way on earth Microsoft should have allowed such systems to ship with windows 10. It was always going to raging shitstorm once windows tried to do anything useful on those systems.

So don't get me wrong, there is still much that rubs my fur the wrong way with Windows 10! At least Apple has the balls to make sure they are not sending systems out pre-broken.

Reply 90 of 107, by Namrok

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gerry wrote on 2021-09-01, 09:46:
canthearu wrote on 2021-09-01, 05:24:
Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 23:26:

My sister's older laptop is barely usable anymore, because Windows is constantly doing strange things in the background.

Windows 7/8/10 work fine as long as your hardware isn't crap, and try to keep the configuration as close to default as possible. If you can't change it in the standard configuration dialogs, then it might be a setting that breaks later on you.

If you are running windows 10 on a hard drive rather than an SSD, you are not in for a happy time.

the idea that a multi core, especially a quad core laptop with an HDD released in the last few years, even with budget level components, is not able to cope well with the operating system simply operating as designed is completely, and without any reasonable counterpoint, the failure of the operating system. If the machine fits the specs it should work without being periodically crippled for an hour or so, there is no excuse.

really Microsoft should simply up the min specs or have a 'poor performance but it works' band at the low end

I could swear Win10 has gotten worse on HDDs as well. I bought my wife a laptop with Windows 10 on it in 2015. Basically right when it came out, and that was pretty much just what Laptops had. It was fine at the time. Now every time you turn it on (and my wife insists on turning it off completely every time she's done using it), Windows 10 thrashes the poor HDD for something like 10 or 15 minutes before it's actually usable. It's totally insane. Had an older Win10 system at work with the same issue. Had an HDD that was perfectly fine years ago when the system was bought. Now Win10 just thrashes it after every reboot. To say nothing of the thrashing other MS products like Visual Studio put it through. Convinced the boss to upgrade it to an SSD and the problems went away.

I've been thinking more and more about Windows XP, and I'm increasingly coming around to the notion that it was the bridge between Windows operating systems being discrete products your purchased for a computer and stuck with, versus services that were constantly changed on you whether you wanted it to or not.

Win95/DOS 7.1 - P233 MMX (@2.5 x 100 FSB), Diamond Viper V330 AGP, SB16 CT2800
Win98 - K6-2+ 500, GF2 MX, SB AWE 64 CT4500, SBLive CT4780
Win98 - Pentium III 1000, GF2 GTS, SBLive CT4760
WinXP - Athlon 64 3200+, GF 7800 GS, Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 91 of 107, by 65C02

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It's not just Windows. Big Sur is also really bad on my HDD based iMac. Ubuntu is still tolerable on HDD, but for the 99% of the population who wants to use a more mainstream OS like Windows or macOS, then ya an SSD is a must.

Reply 92 of 107, by dr_st

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I wonder what exactly changed. I don't think I have any Win10 machine with a mechanical drive, but reports that it runs badly are abundant. I do have a Win7 desktop which runs with HDDs only and seems to be doing OK. Even boots reasonably fast (though not as fast as Win8/10 on an SSD).

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Reply 93 of 107, by The Serpent Rider

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Time of use, file fragmentation, sheer quantity of startup services and apps, etc. You can easily slow down Windows Vista/7/8.1 to a crawl on generic mechanical drive for the same reasons. And acceleration of Windows with NAND flash media storage was A THING starting from Vista era.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 95 of 107, by BitWrangler

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Some of the old tricks work sometimes though, like delete swapfile, remove all HDD and storage controllers from device mangler and reboot. Might behave better after (after it's recreated a swapfile, that might take a few min)

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Reply 96 of 107, by canthearu

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Namrok wrote on 2021-09-01, 13:26:

I could swear Win10 has gotten worse on HDDs as well. I bought my wife a laptop with Windows 10 on it in 2015. Basically right when it came out, and that was pretty much just what Laptops had. It was fine at the time. Now every time you turn it on (and my wife insists on turning it off completely every time she's done using it), Windows 10 thrashes the poor HDD for something like 10 or 15 minutes before it's actually usable. It's totally insane. Had an older Win10 system at work with the same issue. Had an HDD that was perfectly fine years ago when the system was bought. Now Win10 just thrashes it after every reboot. To say nothing of the thrashing other MS products like Visual Studio put it through. Convinced the boss to upgrade it to an SSD and the problems went away.

Yes, windows 10 has gotten worse on HDD over the years through the various updates. This is likely an artifact of windows 10 not being developed and tested fully by Microsoft for HDD systems.

Go buy your wife's laptop an SSD, now rather than later.

This is not entirely unprecedented by Microsoft. Windows XP, from release to EOL with SP3, was a fairly different beast. Windows XP at EOL definitely required more system resources than Windows XP on release.

Reply 97 of 107, by Gmlb256

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canthearu wrote on 2021-09-01, 21:31:

This is not entirely unprecedented by Microsoft. Windows XP, from release to EOL with SP3, was a fairly different beast. Windows XP at EOL definitely required more system resources than Windows XP on release.

With things such as wireless connection (which wasn't common when Windows XP was initially released), the firewall component and MSE (they originally didn't appear until later), it's guaranteed that the overhead will be bigger.

The original system requirements were outdated by the time SP3 was released.

Reply 98 of 107, by BitWrangler

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The original system requirements heh, I'd rather run Windows 10 on lowest of 1GB than XP on lowest of 64MB, they were ridiculously low by SP1 never mind SP3

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Reply 99 of 107, by Caluser2000

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BitWrangler wrote on 2021-09-01, 22:23:

The original system requirements heh, I'd rather run Windows 10 on lowest of 1GB than XP on lowest of 64MB, they were ridiculously low by SP1 never mind SP3

MS always specified too low ram requirements for their GUI/OSs since forever. MS Windows 10 has kinda settled that down. How long does it take win10 to boot from SSD compared to spinning rust? For comparison my AMDK6-2 400 boots Davuan Jessie to the xfce desktop in 30 seconds and I can use it straight away.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉