VOGONS

Common searches


286 Nostalgia

Topic actions

First post, by Alkarion

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Since I've always wondered why Wing Commander runs either too slow or too fast in Dosbox, I tested my memory by installing it on the 286/16MHz I had back in the early `90s.

I was lucky to find one exactly like mine (manufactured by a large German computer vendor named Vobis) on Ebay. Of course I first had to fight several problems. Did you know early Bios had to be provided with hard disk parameters such as WPComp and LZone? To my astonishment, googling for the old hard drive (30MB) gave the correct answers.

The second problem was that the computer would not boot from 3.5" disks but only from 5.25" disks. So I had to plug in the disk into another computer to install MS-Dos 6.22. Since my Athlon XP board didn't like my old 30MB-HD, I finally had to put the priority on functionality instead of authenticity of the old-school-experience and replaced the 30MB drive by a 1.3GB Quantum Fireball (which makes WC2 playable on a 286 - but this is yet another story).

After finally having installed Wing Commander from my original disks (well back then I had an original backup 😁 ) I realized how utterly slow my first computer had been. The OriginFX trailer became a slideshow. In-game play was relatively smooth but much slower than I remembered. You can get a feeling for the speed by setting the Dosbox cycles to 1900. While the CPU and system bus are slowing down the game considerably, it's also the graphics card which also needs considerable time to draw an entire screen. (The VGA card is a 1990-Oak-Technologies card with 256K memory.)

Then I decided to fight for enough memory to run Wing Commander 2. Having tried that on a 486 with 16MB RAM I thought I'd just run memmaker and everything would be fine. But no, memmaker only works on 386+! In fact, you cant even have EMS on a 286 (at least that's what I believe now - is it really true?). With only one meg of RAM it's almost impossible to free more than 600KB in order to play WC 2 with full music (speech is yet another story, but I only had a cheap adlib clone anyway).

Well, I think that's enough for now. Perhaps I'll write something about Windows 3.0 5.25" disk juggling later.

Reply 1 of 17, by eL_PuSHeR

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

WOW! 😎

Several thoughts...

1) Yes, it was possible to have UMBs and EMS memory via a special software (.sys) on 286s but with 1MB it isn't worth it.

2) I have owned several VGA cards. OAK OTI 067 WAS THE DEVIL!!! I still remember running Joe & Mac Caveman Ninja and seeing how bad it run. It was even worse than Trident.
A few VGA cards were good... TSENG ET4000, Paradise, S3, etc...

Intel i7 5960X
Gigabye GA-X99-Gaming 5
8 GB DDR4 (2100)
8 GB GeForce GTX 1070 G1 Gaming (Gigabyte)

Reply 2 of 17, by Alkarion

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Yes, you have proven me wrong. EMS for 286 exists! An interesting collection of tools can be found here:

http://www.filelibrary.com/Contents/DOS/54/36.html

and here:

http://www.bookcase.com/library/software/msdo … til.memory.html

Some are indeed helpful and I can now get the flightstick and other expanded memory features in Wing Commander 1. Still I don't understand why I can't load the expanded memory drivers in the extended memory to have more free conventional memory.

Reply 3 of 17, by Harekiet

User metadata
Rank DOSBox Author
Rank
DOSBox Author

well originally you could just get EMS plugin cards that needed a special driver to control it. Could just get ems on your xt that way too 😀

Reply 4 of 17, by Alkarion

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

While searching the net I found that qram from Quarterdeck supports converting EMS on a 286 into UMBs which allow TSRs to be loaded high. (Wow, lots of cool abbreviations...) Unfortunately, I neither had an EMS expansion board nor such a program.

Guess there are simply limits as to what you can do with one meg. (Such as not being able to listen to music in Wing Commander 2 🙁 .) Well, what do we have Dosbox for!

Reply 5 of 17, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Why not add more memory? IIRC, they are SIMMS aren't they?

Last time I played around with a 286 was back in 1994, still had the same amount of memory as when we bought it back in 1990. 1mb of ram. 😮

Hey cool! Found some SIMMS on pricewatch! Just a dollar or two for a 30pin SIMM.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Make your games work offline

Reply 6 of 17, by Alkarion

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Well, the question is what to do with the added memory. If I simply add memory to the system board (up to 4MB of SIMMS are possible according to the manual), I believe it would only be available as XMS via Himem.

To use it as EMS I would need a 286-EMS-emulator which exists but has two disadvantages. First, it uses large amounts of conventional memory (no loading of TSRs into UMBs for 286s) second, it would be very slow due to missing EMS hardware support.

Since most games need EMS rather than XMS I think the only option would be an expansion board.

Reply 7 of 17, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Might want to try out FDXMS286. Newer than the Himem.sys from DOS 6.22. Of course newer doesn't necessarily mean better......

If you are using MS-DOS you may want to switch to FREEDOS, possibly more conventional memory available there.

Last edited by DosFreak on 2005-03-31, 09:14. Edited 1 time in total.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Make your games work offline

Reply 9 of 17, by avatar_58

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Its not impossible to get more than 600k free on a 286....I've done worse 😉 Get rid of everything in your config that is not needed.

Also, try CTMOUSE in place of mouse.com (that driver eats memory like a sandwich) I believe ctmourse was part of freedos....

Search "Cute Mouse" or "CTMOUSE" in google to get it.

Reply 10 of 17, by Alkarion

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

While I do know about these possibilities, out of nostalgia I'd rather want a solution which would have been available "back in the day".

Getting beyond the 600K barrier seems difficult under 6.22 even if you use ctmouse. But I haven't yet tried everything. Perhaps trading DOS=High for the memory himem.sys uses may do the trick, but I'm sceptical about that.

The thing is that I'd like to have about 593K of conventional memory and about 200K of expanded memory to have all features in Wing Commander 1&2. And that seems to be almost impossible with the 286-EMM-emulation drivers.

Reply 11 of 17, by priestlyboy

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Man, I dunno how you got it to run on a 80286, I had a 80386 when i was a kid.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/wing-comman … lrathi/techinfo

Though according to Moby the minimum Req was 286. 🤣.

Ieremiou
----------
Helping Debug DOSBox.

Reply 12 of 17, by Alkarion

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Update on the Quest for Memory

Searching for a way to get real EMS on my 286 I nearly bought this
board which would give me hardware controlled EMS.

But since I read on the web that generally mainboards had hardware support for EMS in the early nineties, I reinspected my motherboard manual and found a surprise:

Memory Subsystem: 4MB using 1M SIMMs 1MB using 156bx4 DRAM chips or 256k SIMMs Support memory mixing of 256K and 1M System BIOS […]
Show full quote

Memory Subsystem:
4MB using 1M SIMMs
1MB using 156bx4 DRAM chips or 256k SIMMs
Support memory mixing of 256K and 1M
System BIOS Shadow
Video BIOS Shadow
Hardware EMS implementation
128K or 256K Eprom Bios space
0 or 1 wait state selectable

Hardware EMS implementation?! How could I overlook this? So I quickly bid on some 1MB SIMM modules and got four for 1 Euro (They would've cost a fortune back in 1990).

Next thing to do was to rip out the DIP type DRAM modules since a memory bank could only be filled with either DIPs or SIMMs. These little bugs really wanted to stay on the board, but brute force got them divorced from their 15-years-marriage with the motherboard. (DIPs look like this and belong into these slots.)

After praying that I hadn't destroyed some already weakened or corroded contacts (the battery is leaking and some resistors already look ugly - what do you clean a motherboard with?) and that the old 30-pin-SIMMs still work, I switched on the computer. To my big relief I already heard him counting up the memory really long while the monitor was still warming up.

Upon entering the bios I saw the satisfying number of 3072 KB extended memory. But starting DOS and typing mem my exhilaration was soon ended by noticing that there was no EMS. Well, what did I think, hardware controlled or not - DOS would need a driver. Ok I thought, RTFM. Looking into the BIOS documentation only revealed the following mysterious statement:

Hardware LIM EMS is supported using 4 register sets for software applications which require expansion memory. Hardware EMS can also be disabled allowing the use of software "Limulators" for maximum flexibility.

Well, obviously it can be disabled. What about enabling? Perhaps my BIOS lacked the functionality for activating the EMS my chipset provides? Googling for answers I found this nice page providing the first hint. My chipset is the HT12 (286, 6xISA, memory controller w/ EMS, fully) so EMS really should be possible.

Ok, so I used different google queries with the word "ht12" in them. Lo and behold! There really exists a DOS driver for the Headland chipset! Exactly one site on the net still hosts it. Maybe it's gone in two months (who cares for such old DOS stuff) so I've been really lucky.

After fighting a little with the driver I now listen to The Emperor of Kilrah planning the final Terran destruction! And 4 MB still give me plenty of room for hard disk caching. My oldschool device is now really a 286 on steroids!

Reply 14 of 17, by Alkarion

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Hey, thanks. It was a pretty cool oldschool experience... 😎

I'm still impressed with the coicidence by which I got hold of this old driver. I had almost given up and thought it would be lost forever.

Reply 16 of 17, by 5u3

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Congratulations on your work with the 286, I would have chickened out because of the memory issues and got a 386sx instead (I hate protected mode memory drivers, but at least they are a fallback 😜).

There are a couple of UMB drivers that should be useable with 286 CPUs. Most of them are still available on the net, but I'm not sure if there is one compatible with the Headland chipset (The ones that i've got on my 486 aren't). It is possible that someone supported this chipset, because it was one of the more powerful in the days of yore (even better than C&T's NEAT).

It was a wise decision not to buy the EMS board, because access via the AT-bus is really slow.

Do yourself a favour and exchange the OAK VGA with an ET4000 (These are very cheap on Ebay) 😀

Reply 17 of 17, by Alkarion

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Hmm, I can't remember exactly what UMB drivers/programs I tried but I think none worked with the Headland chipset. There are none specifically designed for this chipset, either.

As for the graphics card, I have better ISA VGA cards but I didn't want to exchange anything which would alter the incredibly slow Wing Commander performance (apart from loading time).