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The frustrations of the GPU market

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Reply 120 of 191, by liqmat

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Unknown_K wrote on 2022-01-27, 22:31:
Give it a few years when all these new FABs are online prices will drop like a rock. The semiconductor industry is always going […]
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Give it a few years when all these new FABs are online prices will drop like a rock. The semiconductor industry is always going from boom to bust in every area that's how the big boys buy out the smaller ones.

Crypto currency will pretty much crater sooner or later so there will be a flood of used cards cheap.

What we have now is a perfect storm of larger demand because of people being inside more, production and delivery bottlenecks caused by virus, and fabs that were at capacity before all this started. Quite a bit of the chips that are hard to get are low tech ones used in cars and appliances.

If you look through history there have always been chokepoints caused by availability in things like RAM, HD's , and even processors.

Speaking of which. Your state is about to go online with the largest semiconductor manufacturing facility in the world. Very nice!

Reply 122 of 191, by Meatball

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Unknown_K wrote on 2022-01-27, 22:46:

Ohio has water, makes sense to build here instead of AZ.

"You know that Lake Erie actually caught on fire once, from all the crap floating around in it? I wish I coulda seen that..."

What movie?

Reply 125 of 191, by the3dfxdude

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Unknown_K wrote on 2022-01-27, 22:46:

Ohio has water, makes sense to build here instead of AZ.

AZ has no water problem, once you understand how it is managed here. Actually, too much water has put whole towns out of business:
https://winfirst.wixsite.com/arizonamininghis … y/toughnut-mine

Anyway there is already a massive Intel complex here, so I don't think they necessarily should have two. Having one in the Eastern US makes some sense.

Reply 126 of 191, by cyclone3d

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Plasma wrote on 2022-01-19, 14:27:

First world problems...You can still enjoy games without the settings maxed out at 4K resolution.

True... But I won't do less than 1440p with maxed settings... except for a few dumb one that are lame anyway.

Once I went with a 1440p 144Hz monitor with great color reproduction, anything less just looks sad for newer games.

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Reply 127 of 191, by Unknown_K

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the3dfxdude wrote on 2022-01-28, 03:49:
AZ has no water problem, once you understand how it is managed here. Actually, too much water has put whole towns out of busines […]
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Unknown_K wrote on 2022-01-27, 22:46:

Ohio has water, makes sense to build here instead of AZ.

AZ has no water problem, once you understand how it is managed here. Actually, too much water has put whole towns out of business:
https://winfirst.wixsite.com/arizonamininghis … y/toughnut-mine

Anyway there is already a massive Intel complex here, so I don't think they necessarily should have two. Having one in the Eastern US makes some sense.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/caitochs … arizona-drought

Ground water, especially if you need to drill 500 feet to get it, isn't an answer.

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Reply 128 of 191, by The Serpent Rider

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Give it a few years when all these new FABs are online prices will drop like a rock.

Or we'll finally nuke it out and humanity will be literally using rocks again. If that's the case - Hi, possibly alien future аrchaeologists!

Last edited by The Serpent Rider on 2022-01-28, 17:43. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 129 of 191, by the3dfxdude

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Unknown_K wrote on 2022-01-28, 16:24:
the3dfxdude wrote on 2022-01-28, 03:49:
AZ has no water problem, once you understand how it is managed here. Actually, too much water has put whole towns out of busines […]
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Unknown_K wrote on 2022-01-27, 22:46:

Ohio has water, makes sense to build here instead of AZ.

AZ has no water problem, once you understand how it is managed here. Actually, too much water has put whole towns out of business:
https://winfirst.wixsite.com/arizonamininghis … y/toughnut-mine

Anyway there is already a massive Intel complex here, so I don't think they necessarily should have two. Having one in the Eastern US makes some sense.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/caitochs … arizona-drought

Ground water, especially if you need to drill 500 feet to get it, isn't an answer.

I have a well, and the water table is 300 ft. I almost bought a place where the level was 70 feet, and there are lots of places out there that are just fine. Drilling is not a problem, if you understand how it works. And the article is about the colorado river primarily, which 90% of the state of AZ does not use. And when I say we mostly don't use colorado river, it's that we have and developed substantial resources long before it was tapped in in late 70s. And it's not all ground water. The circumstantial issue that the article is talking about does not apply to the entire state.

Reply 130 of 191, by liqmat

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Just a side note. NVidia stopped making drivers for Windows 7 64 back in October 2021, but to those still running Windows 7 64, like me, they recently released a security update driver (473.04). Just FYI.

Reply 131 of 191, by pentiumspeed

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Insanity: Few days back, I had dead Xbox Series X in for repair that needed power supply and ETA to receive PSU in shipping is few weeks, yet and customer turned that repair down. Everywhere I looked is consistent price range for the PSU and is worth fixing. But nooo.

Yes, I'm frustrated with the insanity of GPU price too.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 132 of 191, by BitWrangler

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ODwilly wrote on 2022-01-23, 08:19:
appiah4 wrote on 2022-01-23, 08:09:

Remember when 570s flooded the market during the prior crypto crash? Would be hillarious if 5000 series card had a huge dump on 2nd hand and 6500xt sold like shit 🤣

The 6500xt is the saddest GPU launch in the last 2 decades.

How about now? Since the Intel failson seems to be having about as much impact on the market as Kyro II.

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Reply 133 of 191, by BEEN_Nath_58

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BitWrangler wrote on 2022-10-13, 17:50:
ODwilly wrote on 2022-01-23, 08:19:
appiah4 wrote on 2022-01-23, 08:09:

Remember when 570s flooded the market during the prior crypto crash? Would be hillarious if 5000 series card had a huge dump on 2nd hand and 6500xt sold like shit 🤣

The 6500xt is the saddest GPU launch in the last 2 decades.

How about now? Since the Intel failson seems to be having about as much impact on the market as Kyro II.

Looking at their D3D9 driver performance, I would stick with my Nvidia 10 series still.

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Reply 134 of 191, by Geri

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GPUs are dinosaurs of the past, it makes no sense for a generic person to buy a graphics card. Graphics cards are a fine topic for a retro forum like this, but its not something a normal person cares any more. When we observe new generation of igps, an integrated AMD, Intel, or even an vivante/s3/mali/powervr based chinese/korean/russian/british/taiwanese whatever igp clone will perform very well in PC and mobile systems. On modern PC systems, even software rendering - such as llvmpipe - offers enough 2D and 3D performance for the average user.

Buying graphics cards indeed makes sense for those who have very old systems, or their main hobby is gaming. That means: the demand for graphics cards are very small compared to like the late 90s/early 2000s where they had to sell yearly 200 million graphics cards to keep up with the market demand. Which means a shrinking market, where less and less people have to pay the increasing development costs. This means very expensive cards, and lower production numbers in overall.

As literally everyone is moving into integration and low power consumption, including manufacturers, businesses and end users, its a dead end for companies like nvidia and their multiple 100w graphics cards in the long term. Right now there is no task a geforce 4xxx can do, but the igp of a random $200-300 android phone or laptop cant, unless you ramp up the resolution to sizes a normie cant even tell apart.

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Reply 135 of 191, by mockingbird

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Geri wrote on 2022-10-13, 19:00:

GPUs are dinosaurs of the past, it makes no sense for a generic person to buy a graphics card. Graphics cards are a fine topic for a retro forum like this, but its not something a normal person cares any more. When we observe new generation of igps, an integrated AMD, Intel, or even an vivante/s3/mali/powervr based chinese/korean/russian/british/taiwanese whatever igp clone will perform very well in PC and mobile systems. On modern PC systems, even software rendering - such as llvmpipe - offers enough 2D and 3D performance for the average user.

Buying graphics cards indeed makes sense for those who have very old systems, or their main hobby is gaming. That means: the demand for graphics cards are very small compared to like the late 90s/early 2000s where they had to sell yearly 200 million graphics cards to keep up with the market demand. Which means a shrinking market, where less and less people have to pay the increasing development costs. This means very expensive cards, and lower production numbers in overall.

As literally everyone is moving into integration and low power consumption, including manufacturers, businesses and end users, its a dead end for companies like nvidia and their multiple 100w graphics cards in the long term. Right now there is no task a geforce 4xxx can do, but the igp of a random $200-300 android phone or laptop cant, unless you ramp up the resolution to sizes a normie cant even tell apart.

+1

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Reply 136 of 191, by swaaye

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BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-10-13, 18:04:

Looking at their D3D9 driver performance, I would stick with my Nvidia 10 series still.

The Intel driver for Xe GPUs doesn't have D3D9 performance at all. It uses d3d9on12. But you can also try dxvk or dgvoodoo2. I think these are probably good enough for most people considering those old games don't ask a lot of a modern machine. An IGP is good enough for most of them. And the wrappers are always improving whereas I can see the native D3D9 drivers regressing because AMD/NV don't care (see threads of people here using specific older drivers).

Reply 137 of 191, by BEEN_Nath_58

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swaaye wrote on 2022-10-13, 20:13:
BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-10-13, 18:04:

Looking at their D3D9 driver performance, I would stick with my Nvidia 10 series still.

The Intel driver for Xe GPUs doesn't have D3D9 performance at all. It uses d3d9on12. But you can also try dxvk or dgvoodoo2. I think these are probably good enough for most people considering those old games don't ask a lot of a modern machine. An IGP is good enough for most of them. And the wrappers are always improving.

Yes I am aware of the new D3D9On12 which probably was introduced with the Intel 12th Gen iGpu.

dgVoodoo2 should work on most cases and it will help in games for a general used, but for me it will make it difficult for me to test and create certain things that generally MS DirectX has bugged.

I also looked at Linus video and I think D3D11 has to improve a lot too...

Intel looked like the perfect candidate here, but there are a lot of loopholes in this Gen 1 product, more than I would have liked.

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Reply 138 of 191, by swaaye

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BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-10-13, 20:29:

Intel looked like the perfect candidate here, but there are a lot of loopholes in this Gen 1 product, more than I would have liked.

From the looks of availability the Arc cards are going to be rather uncommon anyway.

Reply 139 of 191, by Pierre32

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Yep, not only did the Arc cards sell out instantly (or, only go up for preorder in Australia) I'm hardly finding any chatter around the web from excited unboxers. Feels like they only shipped 100 of them.