VOGONS

Common searches


First post, by CaelThunderwing

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

i'm not sure where to put this so the offtopic was a safe bet,

but i've setup a NAS using a Debian 11 Minimal install setup samba, apache2 ( for a web management GUI) partitioned out it's 2TB HDD pretty much to /,/home,/temp and a mount point partitin for isolating NAS data ( so if something happens i couldnt take down the install)

i'm wanting to set it up so that Windows 98 can access it as a drive letter (either via WebDAV[Web Folders] or.. by SMB), and not sure how to setup SMBv1 support (this NAS isnt internet facing so i'm not worried of it getting exploited) nor am i sure how to setup WebDAV support due to how i've partitioned out the hdd.

anyone who knows how to either setup WebDav or get SMBv1 support working in Debian 11, care to help me out and explain how?

before someone does mention try just using FreeNas/TrueNas/OMV, the PC being used for this is a little ram starved for those 3. (4GB Ram hence why i built it from the ground up using debian)

Reply 3 of 16, by pinesal

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

This is probably not too much help but I wanted to share so that you know it's definitely possible.

I have an HDD connected to my Linksys router that is shared on the network and once I put my Win98 machine on the same network, if found the shared drive all by itself in Windows Explorer and it works perfectly.

Hang out in the 90s with me on Twitch: The 90s Retro Gaming https://twitch.tv/90snick_pinesal
Retro Battlestation:
FIC VA-503+
AMD K6-2+ @ 600mhz
ATI Rage Fury 16MB
128mb PC100 RAM
137GB SSD
Windows 98

Reply 4 of 16, by davidrg

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

My smb.conf currently contains:

[global]

# For old windows compatibility
ntlm auth = yes
lanman auth = YES
client lanman auth = YES
client plaintext auth = YES

This is supposed to be all that's required on the Samba end and it certainly makes Windows NT 4.0 connect fine. The page notes that you have to reset the password for every user after making those changes but for me windows 98 is still just giving the password-only login dialog like on that page. Possibly some updates are required for windows 98 but I've never looked into it closely as I don't currently use Samba for networking my vintage machines - there are other network drive solutions that don't require turning off all of sambas security features. Plus I hear Samba will be dropping some support for older clients in the not too distant future.

Reply 5 of 16, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

For that issue it's likely that that it's requiring NTLMv2 if so then:

Install Active Directory Client Extensions

Enable NTLMv2 via registry edit
REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\control\LSA]
"LMCompatibility"=dword:00000003

DOSBox Compilation Guides
DosBox Feature Request Thread
PC Game Compatibility List
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Running DRM games offline

Reply 6 of 16, by Pierre32

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

RetroNAS automatically uses the appropriate Samba version for the client that connects: RetroNAS - open source server software for your retro machines

It's kinda overkill just for a Samba share but it's a simple install, will run on a potato, and you might find some of the other included tools interesting.

Reply 7 of 16, by shamino

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
davidrg wrote on 2022-03-22, 19:43:
My smb.conf currently contains: […]
Show full quote

My smb.conf currently contains:

[global]

# For old windows compatibility
ntlm auth = yes
lanman auth = YES
client lanman auth = YES
client plaintext auth = YES

This is supposed to be all that's required on the Samba end and it certainly makes Windows NT 4.0 connect fine. The page notes that you have to reset the password for every user after making those changes but for me windows 98 is still just giving the password-only login dialog like on that page.

I just got Samba working with a Win95 client a couple days ago using that same guide.
My smb.conf has those same lines, also I previously had set these which might not actually serve any purpose:
client min protocol = CORE
client max protocol = SMB2
this is the range that my clients can use so I specified it but the default behavior might not need to be changed.

Then I did the smbpasswd reset for the samba user, restarted the samba service, and then I think rebooted Win95. Win95 prompts for the user/pass when it boots and it uses that automatically when I open the network share - I don't get a prompt beyond the bootup/login screen.

Are you using the same samba user ID from Win98 as the one that works with NT4?

I hear Samba will be dropping some support for older clients in the not too distant future.

ugh.. I get really sick of that kind of OS nannying. If they decide to break legacy authentication options to "protect me" on my own LAN then I'm going to be ticked.

Reply 8 of 16, by Yoghoo

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
DosFreak wrote on 2022-03-22, 20:01:
For that issue it's likely that that it's requiring NTLMv2 if so then: […]
Show full quote

For that issue it's likely that that it's requiring NTLMv2 if so then:

Install Active Directory Client Extensions

Enable NTLMv2 via registry edit
REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\control\LSA]
"LMCompatibility"=dword:00000003

This indeed needs to be done as well. Furthermore I have to use the same name/password combination on both my NAS and on my Windows 98 system to get it working. Same is needed for Windows 95 and 98SE btw.

Reply 9 of 16, by MrKsoft

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

So, a bit worried - Samba 4.16 is getting dangerously close to dropping SMBv1 support. Right now, mostly depreciating non-NTLMv2 parts of the protocol, which is mostly okay if you're dealing with Win9x and above, but they make it clear that SMBv1 is completely going away soon. This effectively will make it impossible to use SMB shares any more on anything older than Vista. What are our options going forward? Some kind of bridge system that can re-share an SMBv2 share as SMBv1? NFS? Someone maintaining a separate variant of Samba for SMBv1?

RetroNAS may "technically" be an option if old Samba can continue to be maintained, but I'm not particularly interested in setting up a separate NAS just for retro machines, especially because I want to have the same files directly accessible on both old and new machines (such as software archives or my MIDI collection). This sucks cause I use SMB shares extensively on pretty much anything Win95 and up. Going back to FTP would be a royal pain.

Wafflenet OPL Archive - Preserving MS-DOS music in a unified format!

Reply 11 of 16, by MrKsoft

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe you can reshare a mounted network drive as a network drive in itself (at least on Windows) so that couldn't be used to "downgrade" the protocol. Although I suppose that would be possible on a Linux box if you mounted the SMB share in /etc/fstab. Probably a performance penalty, too, but we're talking typically 10/100 at most so the overhead probably isn't terrible.

Wafflenet OPL Archive - Preserving MS-DOS music in a unified format!

Reply 12 of 16, by Yoghoo

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

When the time comes that my NAS drops SMB1 support I will just create a Docker container with SMB1 support and connect it to my NAS. Most modern NAS systems support Docker and/or VM's out of the box so it's quitte easy to get it working without to much overhead. Also you can use a super small Raspberry Pi Zero 2 w or so with RetroNAS as a middleman to your NAS. No need for a separate NAS for all of these solutions.

Reply 13 of 16, by davidrg

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
shamino wrote on 2022-03-23, 13:26:

ugh.. I get really sick of that kind of OS nannying. If they decide to break legacy authentication options to "protect me" on my own LAN then I'm going to be ticked.

I guess for them its probably primarily a maintenance issue. Its a big chunk of code that someone has to maintain and test somehow. A chunk of code that the vast majority of Samba users will never intentionally enable or use and so wouldn't miss if it was gone. Given its all disabled by default I doubt security is the primary concern.

MrKsoft wrote on 2022-03-23, 18:42:

So, a bit worried - Samba 4.16 is getting dangerously close to dropping SMBv1 support. Right now, mostly depreciating non-NTLMv2 parts of the protocol, which is mostly okay if you're dealing with Win9x and above, but they make it clear that SMBv1 is completely going away soon. This effectively will make it impossible to use SMB shares any more on anything older than Vista. What are our options going forward? Some kind of bridge system that can re-share an SMBv2 share as SMBv1? NFS? Someone maintaining a separate variant of Samba for SMBv1?

RetroNAS may "technically" be an option if old Samba can continue to be maintained, but I'm not particularly interested in setting up a separate NAS just for retro machines, especially because I want to have the same files directly accessible on both old and new machines (such as software archives or my MIDI collection). This sucks cause I use SMB shares extensively on pretty much anything Win95 and up. Going back to FTP would be a royal pain.

For SMB support? Probably the only long-term option is to run old versions of Samba or some other older implementation in a VM (NT Server 4.0 perhaps). This path will eventually run into problems with new versions of Windows though and building old Samba will only get more difficult as time goes on.

For network drives in general? Running Mars NWE alongside Samba may be an option in some cases if you don't mind a bit of extra complexity. It is to NetWare what Samba is to Windows server - an implementation of the NetWare File&Print protocols for Linux. Its been pretty much unmaintained for two decades but seems to work fine on modern Linux systems still and the NetWare clients for DOS, Windows 3.x, 9x, NT/2000/XP and OS/2 all happily talk to it as though it were a real NetWare server. Windows 9X and NT/2000/XP/20003 have a built in NetWare client that works OK too if you don't want to install anything beyond what comes on the Windows CD.

For DOS machines SMB was already a terrible choice given the absurd amount of conventional memory the Microsoft client needs. EtherDFS will give you network drives for only 8K of conventional memory (plus whatever your packet driver needs). The 32bit DOS & Windows 3.x NetWare client will connect you to a Mars NWE or real NetWare server for only 4KB of conventional memory (including network drivers if there is a 32bit ODI driver for your card).

Reply 14 of 16, by CaelThunderwing

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
davidrg wrote on 2022-03-22, 19:43:
My smb.conf currently contains: […]
Show full quote

My smb.conf currently contains:

[global]

# For old windows compatibility
ntlm auth = yes
lanman auth = YES
client lanman auth = YES
client plaintext auth = YES

This is supposed to be all that's required on the Samba end and it certainly makes Windows NT 4.0 connect fine. The page notes that you have to reset the password for every user after making those changes but for me windows 98 is still just giving the password-only login dialog like on that page. Possibly some updates are required for windows 98 but I've never looked into it closely as I don't currently use Samba for networking my vintage machines - there are other network drive solutions that don't require turning off all of sambas security features. Plus I hear Samba will be dropping some support for older clients in the not too distant future.

this has done it for me i got not just Windows 9x now connecting , but some of the few emulators on the Wii connecting ( VBA GX, FCEU GX, SNES9X GX) and retrieving roms off a specified share. the only downside is well it's still SMBv1, and exploitable i might move devices onto a seperate network that isnt actively exposed to anything but local direct ethernet access . ( or atleast just now disable SMBv1 on the two Windows 10 PC's in the home.)

Reply 15 of 16, by Pierre32

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
CaelThunderwing wrote on 2022-03-25, 13:26:

move devices onto a seperate network
disable SMBv1 on the two Windows 10 PC's

Both good ideas.

I run a NAS with multiple network interfaces, allowing me to have 'modern' and 'retro' networks on separate subnets. They can't talk to each other, but they can all access the same storage.

Reply 16 of 16, by WolverineDK

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Hey, just a small heads up. Phil (whom is a member here too, by the way). Did a video about using a NAS in DOS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-grh_0dUX6A