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First post, by Davros

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The retro PC game collecting scene was rocked by an unexpected scandal last week when a prominent member of the community, who was also a moderator of a major Facebook group, was accused of selling people fake copies of classic games.
https://kotaku.com/retro-fake-forgery-bbpcgc- … roup-1848998869

Guardian of the Sacred Five Terabyte's of Gaming Goodness

Reply 2 of 30, by AppleSauce

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Plasma wrote on 2022-06-02, 23:49:

Funny that he didn't even duplicate the floppy contents. That's the easiest part.

I'd imagine he was convinced that collectors wouldn't dare tarnish the floppies value by using them. And it seems he was mostly right unfortunately.

Reply 4 of 30, by Unknown_K

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People don't like being lied to. And if you are a collector or rarities why bother using the original disks when there are images around to run.
Besides if they did check the contents, they might be able to detect a fake if the code is wrong (file dates, length, etc.) so it's easier just to say the disks went bad.

Collector of old computers, hardware, and software

Reply 5 of 30, by kolderman

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> If you’re a collector and this has you a bit spooked, or you’re just an outside observer curious about how all this works, the Big Box PC Game Collectors group have an “anti-scammers guide” that’s an interesting read.

Eh who is printing off thick manuals with glossy covers...no-one who wants to make any money.

Reply 6 of 30, by dormcat

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These disks are 40 years old, and the software is widely available online via emulators at this point. The goal in getting these games is not to play them, but to collect them (people who collect baseball trading cards do not trade them much either). “Testing” a 40-year-old disk can risk damaging the disk. Further, some collectors do not have access to the computers which originally ran these games.

The baseball analogy would be more appropriate with "hitting a baseball that had been signed by a Cy Young Award pitcher."

Reply 7 of 30, by Plasma

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Unknown_K wrote on 2022-06-03, 04:28:

People don't like being lied to. And if you are a collector or rarities why bother using the original disks when there are images around to run.
Besides if they did check the contents, they might be able to detect a fake if the code is wrong (file dates, length, etc.) so it's easier just to say the disks went bad.

I'm not saying they should be ok with being scammed. I just find the psychology interesting.

If there are "images around to run", then those images could easily be used to make real disks. But the disks included were completely blank, not bad. That was one of the red flags.

Reply 8 of 30, by Tetrium

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This guy made it into a moderator role this way, which is a good performance of this guy. Perhaps he even sought out to put in the effort to become one just so he could make more money this way, by purposefully abusing his reputation with complete disregard for the other people there.
Personally I find this psychology more interesting than the ones of his victims as this one psychology will, by its very nature, reveal the psychology of his victims at the same time.

His victims are probably feeling quite gutted by this revelation, but I'm not at all surprised that things like these exist in the retro computing world.
By sheer coincidence, I wrote this in a different thread just yesterday evening (or 2 days ago, apparently 🤣) which has a striking resemblance to what happened in that retro game community (no I didn't actually know this 🤣)

Tetrium wrote on 2022-06-01, 20:31:

With prices like this I would be surprised if there weren't already counterfeiters making fake collectibles, especially since collectors tend to not actually test their chips.

and these collectors apparently don't typically bother to test their games.
But I can somewhat relate to not wanting to test it, as it may potentially ruin their 'investment'.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised is at least some of the boxed still-in-the-original-foil games don't contain the really original foil anymore and have its content changed with a CD box with an empty CDR. Without opening the package (and depleting its collector value) it'll be very hard to verify its contents.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 9 of 30, by zyzzle

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Problems like this are why this 'retro' hobby is so ephemeral and really quite senseless when it comes to the grand scheme of things! I just can't see paying hundreds of dollars for "original" games when 99.9% of this retro software can just be downloaded for free, and played without spending a penny. It seems like such a waste of money. People are in it for all the wrong reasons. I'm in it for the legimate reason: I enjoy playing the original retro games, and *using* the content. Not gawking and bragging about 'fake' and / or genuine pieces of cardboard and 5.25" floppy disks. And these downloads are all over, and the people who've archived all the content for posterity deserve the real praise, not the hoity-toity, snarky "collectors" who have way too much money to spend and way too much time to waste. So, I'm not surprised in the slightest that someone figured out how to exploit many of these gullible, false people. I wryly smiled at this (expected) news.

Reply 11 of 30, by Tetrium

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Personally I've always preferred to own games for the purpose of being able to actually play them. This is why I never bothered to collect floppy disk based games, because of a higher risk of the software itself having become unusable to me (and not just corruption but also people having deleted the disk to have some more place to store their binary junk in 😋 ).
I'll buy used just as happily as newly packaged ones (which have become all but extinct here in The Netherlands or at least where I live) provided the disk(s) are still in good shape. If the disks are damaged or missing I'd probably only want to take the game home if it for instance contains a game code or if I by sheer chance happen to have a box-less disk at home or something. Or if it's a game I really REALLY like!

It's also nice if stuff like registration cards are also still there (I mean I literally know of nobody who ever had send in one of those) but it's not necessary for me.
In the end I want to be able to play a game.
I'll also buy multiple copies of games that I like, but at some point I'll stop buying (I have plenty of RTW copies by now 🤣) except when I see Total Annihilation.

I'm also not gonna pay like €50 for a single boxed game. I mean I literally started buying games from the bargaining bin because this is a cheap way for me to gain access to games that aren't just pirated copies. I didn't start buying them because they were expensive because I'm not an idiot xD
And I mean I would be an idiot for this if I would because I play the games I buy, I don't buy them to look at them.
But that isn't meaning that I don't care about old games. Sometimes I do get my hands on some large collector edition boxed game and even ones I don't like I don't handle carelessly (you won't ever see me tossing out or ripping apart the cardboard game boxes because taking the disks out of the big boxes is part of the retro experience for me). I still appreciate these old games for what they are, even if they have the foil torn off and have their registration card missing.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 12 of 30, by ThinkpadIL

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Davros wrote on 2022-06-02, 23:33:

The retro PC game collecting scene was rocked by an unexpected scandal last week when a prominent member of the community, who was also a moderator of a major Facebook group, was accused of selling people fake copies of classic games.
https://kotaku.com/retro-fake-forgery-bbpcgc- … roup-1848998869

If it took so long to discover I'd say it is rather "The retro PC game shopaholic scene". Collectors supposed at least to check what they are collecting, aren't they? 🙂

Reply 13 of 30, by Mister Xiado

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The nouveau-riche who are obsessed with being seen as "retro-cool" always get taken for a ride, but when a $400 game only costs you one percent of one percent of your passive annual income, it's not so damaging to the victims of their own hubris. When a $400 game costs you multiple days' pay even before taxes, then it stings a lot, and you're going to want to be absolutely certain you're getting what you begrudgingly paid for. This is why I recommend flash carts to people, or even just emulation if the actual hardware becomes prohibitively expensive. I could never afford to re-buy everything I already have, as in many cases, the perceived value of the items has increased by an order of magnitude since their acquisition.

b_ldnt2.gif - Where it's always 1995.
Icons, wallpapers, and typical Oldternet nonsense.

Reply 14 of 30, by ThinkpadIL

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Mister Xiado wrote on 2022-06-04, 11:41:

The nouveau-riche who are obsessed with being seen as "retro-cool" always get taken for a ride, but when a $400 game only costs you one percent of one percent of your passive annual income, it's not so damaging to the victims of their own hubris. When a $400 game costs you multiple days' pay even before taxes, then it stings a lot, and you're going to want to be absolutely certain you're getting what you begrudgingly paid for. This is why I recommend flash carts to people, or even just emulation if the actual hardware becomes prohibitively expensive. I could never afford to re-buy everything I already have, as in many cases, the perceived value of the items has increased by an order of magnitude since their acquisition.

The main problem is not a price. Retro PC collecting is still quite affordable hobby for the masses. I think the main problem is that many collectors are actually not collectors but shopaholics. They buy everything indiscriminately just because they can and they keep on buying even when they already can't.

I won't point at specific persons, but take a look at some well known youtubers who are also collectors. They have tons of stuff, with most of which they have no idea what to do, and they keep on buying.

I can't call myself a professional collector or collector at all, but I think that behind any collection must be an idea, and value of collection is not in quantity but in quality. And part of a quality of any collection is that you know well or want to know well items in your collection.

Reply 16 of 30, by Tetrium

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ThinkpadIL wrote on 2022-06-04, 11:14:
Davros wrote on 2022-06-02, 23:33:

The retro PC game collecting scene was rocked by an unexpected scandal last week when a prominent member of the community, who was also a moderator of a major Facebook group, was accused of selling people fake copies of classic games.
https://kotaku.com/retro-fake-forgery-bbpcgc- … roup-1848998869

If it took so long to discover I'd say it is rather "The retro PC game shopaholic scene". Collectors supposed at least to check what they are collecting, aren't they? 🙂

Personally I'd be interested in learning why they collect and what they do with their collections 🙂
I would actually really appreciate someone with more inside involvement to tell us about it.

Yes, collectors are supposed to check what they are collecting. In this regard it does help if you are fairly knowledgeable about the subject, but it remains a tricky business which is hard to get into if you haven't any prior or contemporary experience yourself. Same thing with people who collect hardware, it's so much easier if you know what you are doing and how to recognize potential problems. But even the best of us could still be tricked by counterfeits, these can be very hard to spot.

I'm not really familiar with "retro PC game shopaholic scene". You mean people who collect 'rare and supposedly extremely sought after' games?
I'm reasonably sure such people exist but it would be unwise to assume all game collectors are like that.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 18 of 30, by Tetrium

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leileilol wrote on 2022-06-04, 16:30:

Makes you think about all those people demanding access to unresized cover scans on MobyGames allegedly for 'wallpaper' purposes...

Indeed.

Though tbf in the end I think it wouldn't matter as much as, if these would not be widely available, a counterfeiter would need only one original copy to make copies of while knowing their 'customers' would be unlikely to have good enough material available in the form of the original pics (in large resolutions) to compare them with. Because most of the time they want one because they don't have any original source material to compare their purchase with.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 19 of 30, by ThinkpadIL

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Tetrium wrote on 2022-06-04, 15:59:
Personally I'd be interested in learning why they collect and what they do with their collections 🙂 I would actually really appr […]
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ThinkpadIL wrote on 2022-06-04, 11:14:
Davros wrote on 2022-06-02, 23:33:

The retro PC game collecting scene was rocked by an unexpected scandal last week when a prominent member of the community, who was also a moderator of a major Facebook group, was accused of selling people fake copies of classic games.
https://kotaku.com/retro-fake-forgery-bbpcgc- … roup-1848998869

If it took so long to discover I'd say it is rather "The retro PC game shopaholic scene". Collectors supposed at least to check what they are collecting, aren't they? 🙂

Personally I'd be interested in learning why they collect and what they do with their collections 🙂
I would actually really appreciate someone with more inside involvement to tell us about it.

Yes, collectors are supposed to check what they are collecting. In this regard it does help if you are fairly knowledgeable about the subject, but it remains a tricky business which is hard to get into if you haven't any prior or contemporary experience yourself. Same thing with people who collect hardware, it's so much easier if you know what you are doing and how to recognize potential problems. But even the best of us could still be tricked by counterfeits, these can be very hard to spot.

I'm not really familiar with "retro PC game shopaholic scene". You mean people who collect 'rare and supposedly extremely sought after' games?
I'm reasonably sure such people exist but it would be unwise to assume all game collectors are like that.

Well, it's obvious you can't be 100% prepared and there is always a possibility to be tricked. But it makes sense to gather some information and read some reviews about item you want to add to your collection before buying it.

Regarding "retro PC game shopaholic scene", first I do not assume all game collectors are like that, and second, what would be really unwise to assume is that a shopaholic will admit the fact that he actually is a shopaholic. 🙂