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First post, by OMORES

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Windows 98SE quickie:

So, I got yesterday a Ryzen 2700 CPU and some MSI board on my hands (B350M-PRO VDH) and I tried to install Windows 98SE . For a PCI-E only motherboard, it worked out pretty well:

CPU, motherboard & RAM - no problems (you have to add PCI-E bus manually once Windows 98SE installation is done)
SSD 480GB on AHCI mode - no problems
Compact USB keyboard - some problems (being compact uses Fn for PrintScreen and some other keys, emulation doesn't like this, otherwise OK, including gaming)
PS/2 mouse - OK, unless I use Fn on keyboard
nVidia 7600GT - it works! With default Directx 6.1 couldn't start Quake II, but affer upgrading to 9.0C all good
PCI-E CMI8738 - it works fine, no stutter in games (there are tons of these to buy brand new)

Theoretically, on board Gigabit Realtek LAN should work using DOS drivers. Did this on some other motherboards.

If I hook-up a PCI-E to USB with VIA6212 chip I get a fully functional Windows 98SE on a PCI-E only motherboard.

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Reply 1 of 11, by retrogamerguy1997

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Not to be that guy, but why on a Ryzen? I can almost understand wanting to attempt this if your budget only permitted you to like get a cheapo core 2 duo machine. Either way though, it is nice to see that it still can be done and I almost want to now attempt it on my prescott which also has a pcie slot for graphics (plus I would have an excuse to put the YMF744 sound card in).

Reply 2 of 11, by BEEN_Nath_58

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retrogamerguy1997 wrote on 2022-06-18, 21:13:

Not to be that guy, but why on a Ryzen? I can almost understand wanting to attempt this if your budget only permitted you to like get a cheapo core 2 duo machine. Either way though, it is nice to see that it still can be done and I almost want to now attempt it on my prescott which also has a pcie slot for graphics (plus I would have an excuse to put the YMF744 sound card in).

This is a concept project

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 4 of 11, by bestemor

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CPU, motherboard & RAM - no problems (you have to add PCI-E bus manually once Windows 98SE installation is done)

What does this mean, and how is it done, and using what software if any ?

480GB on AHCI mode

So, given the inherent 128GB hdd limit, what did you do to make this work reliably ?

PCI-E CMI8738

Does this have a driver for win98 ? 😄
What did you do, if anything at all, to make this one work ?

If I hook-up a PCI-E to USB with VIA6212 chip I get a fully functional Windows 98SE on a PCI-E only motherboard.

And this sentence, what do you mean here ? What exactly is that thing you are hooking up ? And why would that give a fully functional Win98 ?
(or was that just the 'last' part needed perhaps... ?)

SORRY! for all the stupid question, but I am genuinly intrigued, if this abomination actually can be used to play Win98 games on without any(?) kind of hiccups.... 🤔😆👍

Reply 5 of 11, by Jo22

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^VIA6212 is an USB 2.0 host controller chip.
It was often installed on PCI cards with USB ports.
Physically, PCI-E (PCI express) and old PCI are different, but not software-wise.
Both look the same to software (they share the same basic functions, at least).
So it's possible to make PCI-E cards with old PCI chips. Or the other way round.

However, a converter, a so-called "bridge chip" is needed.
That bridge chip converts the parallel signals of the PCI bus into serial signals (for the PCIe links). Or the other way round, depending on the bridge model.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 6 of 11, by OMORES

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bestemor wrote on 2022-06-19, 14:35:

You have to add PCI-E bus manually once Windows 98SE installation is done

What does this mean, and how is it done, and using what software if any ?

On a typical Windows 98SE installation, you might get a blue screen when detecting hardware, but this is not the end... After restart, installation will continue and you'll get to desktop. In this scenario there are no unknown devices in the control panel, just some basic standard devices like "Plug and play BIOS".

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To install PCI-E or PCI hardware you need to add the PCI bus using "Add new hardware" option in the control panel. At this point Windows will get crazy... it will take about 5-10 minutes to close 30-40 dialog boxes: "Next -> Next -> Finish" for basic hardware like "PCI to PCI bridge"or you can already provide drivers for sound, video, USB cards. (if you have any)

So, given the inherent 128GB hdd limit, what did you do to make this work reliably ?

On this particular installation, I made a simple FAT bootable partition with 98SE installation files on it. It wasn't important to access the rest of the drive. You can make a dual boot configuration with Windows 10 partition on the remaining space. If you want more space in 98 you can install a PCI-E to SATA card with Windows 98 support, or the AHCI patch from Rloew.

PCI-E CMI8738

This CMI8738 chip is actually from 1998. I used these drivers: https://download.cnet.com/C-Media-CMI8738-WDM … 4-10518533.html

If I hook-up a PCI-E to USB with VIA6212 chip I get a fully functional Windows 98SE on a PCI-E only motherboard.

And this sentence, what do you mean here ? What exactly is that thing you are hooking up ? And why would that give a fully functional Win98 ?
(or was that just the 'last' part needed perhaps... ?)

At this point, this Windows 98 installation has proper video and sound divers, but no USB. I won't talk now about how USB can make your life easier... 😀

There is an unofficial USB patch to get on board USB recognized in Windows 98, but this solution won't work with very new motherboards. You can use a PCI-E to PCI adapter with an older PCI to USB card. Fortunately, there are some PCI-E cards that card are basically the same as an PCI-E to PCI adapter + and older PCI card but in a single card. I have one of these cards in my main Windows 10/9x machine (Ryzen 3900X)

Reply 7 of 11, by bestemor

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But can you play Crysis ? 😅

Thankyou for the clarifications! Seems like there's a little more to it then.
I'll take a closer look and see if I understand it all.

Still, most importantly, are the old windows games playable on this thing ?

Reply 8 of 11, by OMORES

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bestemor wrote on 2022-06-19, 18:00:

Still, most importantly, are the old windows games playable on this thing ?

Of course they are. On my Ryzen 3900x I can play all the late '90s big hits like Quake, Unreal, Half Life, Thief, Fifa etc. Daemon tools works pretty well also.

Reply 9 of 11, by retrogamerguy1997

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May I ask what nvidia drivers you used? I have a 7800GT PCI-e card in my prescott so I assume whatever driver you used should work. Also is there any need for special patches for cpu speed and having 2GB of RAM

Reply 10 of 11, by OMORES

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retrogamerguy1997 wrote on 2022-06-20, 01:55:

May I ask what nvidia drivers you used? I have a 7800GT PCI-e card in my prescott so I assume whatever driver you used should work. Also is there any need for special patches for cpu speed and having 2GB of RAM

Driver version is 82.69, these are some "modded" drivers. (only .inf is modified) - https://retrosystemsrevival.blogspot.com/2019 … ivers-8269.html

You have to consider that only GeForce 6xxx series are officially supported.

Some EA games might give a CPU error but CPU speed it's not a problem in general. Pentium 4 (Northwood) reached 3.06 Ghz in 2002 when Windows 95 😳 was the most popular OS - https://www.cnet.com/culture/windows-95-remai … erating-system/ Using a Ryzen 2700 @ 3.2Ghz base speed won't confuse Windows 98...

There is a working patch for 2GB or more, but I prefer not to use it.

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