VOGONS

Common searches


Reasons to hate modern games

Topic actions

Reply 220 of 232, by zyzzle

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Shreddoc wrote on 2022-07-08, 00:01:

The digital commercial frontline of the world is a massive wave, pushing most people along with it. I've always been an odd-one-out in society, so the wave missed me. But it doesn't matter. I'm still here wasting my time rambling on about it. I've still got to go through life having it all around me, and interacting with people who DO willingly engage with it.

So - damned if you do, damned if you don't, I'm afraid.

So did I. I missed that massive tidal wave, intentionally, because I've stayed on high ground. I congratulate you for following suit. The obvious cashgrab of the social media ploy / vortex has been patently obvious to anyone who has a brain and might dare to think outside the box.

Reply 221 of 232, by schmatzler

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Shreddoc wrote on 2022-07-08, 00:01:

Mobile games?? Ha. Ha. Ha. Nope.

The mobile games market is a culmination of all horrible ideas and exploitative gameplay elements just to get money out of people.
It's sad that this is mostly unregulated, opening the Play Store feels like opening a gambling site.

But there are excellent mobile games that aren't exploiting their players. A list of them is provided here at "No Bullshit Games":
https://nobsgames.stavros.io/

My favorite mobile game is "Monument Valley" from ustwo games. It's a beautiful game with a heartwarming story and you need to think a little bit.
"Riptide GP: Renegade" is also excellent - it's a racing game on water and the water effects look gorgeous. No lootboxes, no DLC, just racing and fun. I bought a gamepad for my tablet just for this game.

Reply 222 of 232, by Joakim

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I hate gaming without tactile buttons in action filled games and in games that are a good fit for it your fingers are always in the way on a small screen.

I loved the ps vita when it came out but in hindsight it never had a chance to compete with the fruit company that makes phones.

Reply 224 of 232, by gaffa2002

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
realnc wrote on 2022-07-15, 12:38:

If by "devs" he meant the ones working for the game industry, then this guy is right, unfortunately...
Every industry follows the same rule... whatever is being produced by it is secondary. The focus will always be in making money, otherwise the company is swallowed by a bigger one overnight.
Its a no-win situation for everyone, devs (meaning the actual people in the project, not the company) and consumers.

LO-RES, HI-FUN

My DOS/ Win98 PC specs

EP-7KXA Motherboard
Athlon Thunderbird 750mhz
256Mb PC100 RAM
Geforce 4 MX440 64MB AGP (128 bit)
Sound Blaster AWE 64 CT4500 (ISA)
32GB HDD

Reply 225 of 232, by TheMobRules

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Riccitiello and people of his ilk are reason enough to hate how most games are made these days. The fact that he speaks about "compulsion loop" in the interview is disgusting, he's pretty much describing games as gambling machines.

Unfortunately the success of video games attracted all sorts of wrong people, the same kind of "execs" that made the music and movie industries the hot garbage they currently are. Game development used to be about to finding a balance between making money by pleasing the customers and the artistic intentions of the developer. So even in extreme cases you would get either pure fan service or commercially unsuccessful "artsy" stuff. But now that has shifted to just pleasing the shareholders, who don't give a fuck whether the gamers like the product or the developer feels realized. Of course, this wouldn't be possible without the drones and whales that swallow every single microtransaction that gets thrown at them.

Reply 226 of 232, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
realnc wrote on 2022-07-15, 12:38:

There are some things to be said about that article though.
Since you already added the original link to the source, I'll add the article here in case it ever disappears sometime in the future since I'm about to dissect it a little:

Unity CEO John Riccitiello has said that if you’re not thinking about monetisation during your creative process, you’re a “fucking idiot.”

The comments came in an interview with our friends at pocketgamer.biz just after it was confirmed that Unity and IronSource are to merge.

So the first thing he does, is to state his hypothesis (which he delivers like it's a fact, but it's really his hypothesis as he's about to try to state his case next) that "if you’re not thinking about monetisation during your creative process, you’re a “fucking idiot.”".

When Riccitiello was asked about some of the heat Unity and IronSource has received around the idea of including monetisation earlier in the development process, Riccitiello responded:

“Ferrari and some of the other high-end car manufacturers still use clay and carving knives. It’s a very small portion of the gaming industry that works that way, and some of these people are my favourite people in the world to fight with – they’re the most beautiful and pure, brilliant people. They’re also some of the biggest fucking idiots.”

Here he tries to illustrate or cartonize or whatever one could call it, the people who don't work in this way or basically what he described as fucking idiots along with "clay and carving knives" with which he tries to imply that not working in his way is old-fashioned, dated and obsolete and that this is a mere small portion, all of this he implies they should move on, stop trying to fight commercial wars with clubs and start using nukes like normal people who are not fucking idiots do. He clearly is dismissive on people he perceives as pure and brilliant, as he tries to imply they should stop being fucking idiots and become more narcissistic or something.

Unity’s merger with IronSource was announced yesterday, and valued the latter company at $4.4bn.
“I’ve been in the gaming industry longer than most anybody – getting to the grey hair and all that,” he continued.

Next he makes a statement which doesn't only try to imply he is knowledgeable about thew gaming industry for a longer time than most others have, it is also a statement of entitlement for his own behalf. It's to add extra foundation for his next statement.

“It used to be the case that developers would throw their game over the wall to the publicist and sales force with literally no interaction beforehand. That model is baked into the philosophy of a lot of artforms and medium, and it’s one I am deeply respectful of; I know their dedication and care.”

philosophy, artforms, deeply respectful, dedication and care (but they are fucking idiots).

“But this industry divides people between those who still hold to that philosophy and those who massively embrace how to figure out what makes a successful product.

This doesn't really need a whole lot of explanation. He clearly divides/polarizes this previously mentioned group (the so called fucking idiots) and "those who massively embrace how to figure out what makes a successful product" with which he wants to basically create 2 groups, of which he tries to imply the group of fucking idiots are the outcasts, the old fashioned ones, the naive idiots with ideals basically. And on the other hand the normal people, the rest of the world who massively embrace (a word which usually has a positive connotation which he attempts to mix in with what essentially are 'game' or surprise mechanics, veeeery sneaky! Very clever) how to figure out (as in think/use a brain, another clever use of words with the purpose of trying to invoke an emotion from the reader) what makes a successful product.
Of course a successful product is one in which monetization should be blended into the creative phase (because that's what makes money, or so he implies).

And I don’t know a successful artist anywhere that doesn’t care about what their player thinks. This is where this cycle of feedback comes back, and they can choose to ignore it. But to choose to not know it at all is not a great call.”

Here he tries to add in yet another connotation to put even more emphasis on dividing up these 2 groups he is talking about. The same clever way of using certain words.
Some parts I don't fully understand, this bit: "this cycle of feedback comes back" not sure if he means that somehow the inclusion of monetization practices have a positive effect on the amount of feedback the game company receives, but this is either simply not the case. Because game companies that still make games more the old fashioned way actually do know how to use 2022 communication methods quite effectively, but are not really needed by companies that think about monetization as much because companies that try to make people as addicted as possible to their products, their 'games', create their software build around trying to get people as addicted as possible. This is implied by this next bit:

“I’ve seen great games fail because they tuned their compulsion loop to two minutes when it should have been an hour. Sometimes, you wouldn’t even notice the product difference between a massive success and tremendous fail, but for this tuning and what it does to the attrition rate. There isn’t a developer on the planet that wouldn’t want that knowledge.”

The compulsion loop is a term used in what I could describe as gaming psychology, which is part of a set of 'rules' now generally understood to help make games that people keep playing and also keep going back to. There's a whole lot of info to be found about this subject, so I won't search and link some of those here (because I literally have a train to catch in a bit and want to spend my remaining time preparing for that instaed of hunting links via google about tricks companies use to make you addicted to their games).

So this last bit is actually somewhat true. But he's again being deceitful as he is implying that these sciences, this knowledge about the more mathematical approaches of what make games more fun, are somehow connected to monetization, which thjey are not.

The difference here is that monetization of games is often by misuse or abuse of these sets of rules, they are definitely not the same. A game could perfectly well be made according to those rules but exclude monetization in not only the creative phase, but in the other phases as well and be sold the old fashioned way.

What is regarded as a successful product is also open to debate. I assume the writer of this article was implying that the amount of success of a game can only be measured in how much money it makes. This is a questionable statement as this depends on what your end goals are.

About the feedback he mentioned earlier. It wouldn't surprise me if part of this feedback was from datamining, invading people's privacies because if they let their guard down they will be the best datamineable set of people for which to tweak their psychological abuse of addictive mechanics they want to blend into their 'games'. it's like trying to add heroine to coffee and persuade people it's just greater coffee than the coffee the old-fashioned people still make.

So all in all, a rather deceitful bunch of statements mentioned in that article. It doesn't even actually contain a lot of actual information, it's mostly a collection of statements processed into a relatively short story/article which is build around trying to swing the reader's opinions about this subject in a (from my perspective) untruthful way.
It's deceptive and not true.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 227 of 232, by ratfink

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I just downloaded diablo immortal (the "dont you guys have phones" debacle was not an auspicious start of course but i wanted to have a look as it's apparently set between D2 which i loved and D3 which i didnt). ipad pro, fast machine, very capable. took forever downloading all the packs, including audio. no sound. tried all the fixes. game deleted. feedback left. is it so fucking hard to make something just work on a platform that should "just work". it's not like these guys are amateurs, they make shitpiles of money out of it etc etc etc.

Reply 228 of 232, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Blizzard was dead to me when WC3 was released. I did play D3 to prove if my avoidance of online only games was me just being irrational or not, it was not and D3 was horrible. May Blizzard continue to fade into irrelevance but likely not since esports and mobile seems to eat their shit up likely due to the dearth of quality mobile games.

DOSBox Compilation Guides
DosBox Feature Request Thread
PC Game Compatibility List
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Running DRM games offline

Reply 229 of 232, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

https://www.pcgamesn.com/diablo-immortal/micr … ons-100-million

Diablo Immortal microtransactions have made over $100 million from player spending on mobile platforms alone, says a report from SensorTower on the RPG game

Boggles the mind doesn't it?

DOSBox Compilation Guides
DosBox Feature Request Thread
PC Game Compatibility List
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Running DRM games offline

Reply 230 of 232, by BitWrangler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
schmatzler wrote on 2022-07-15, 01:17:
The mobile games market is a culmination of all horrible ideas and exploitative gameplay elements just to get money out of peopl […]
Show full quote
Shreddoc wrote on 2022-07-08, 00:01:

Mobile games?? Ha. Ha. Ha. Nope.

The mobile games market is a culmination of all horrible ideas and exploitative gameplay elements just to get money out of people.
It's sad that this is mostly unregulated, opening the Play Store feels like opening a gambling site.

But there are excellent mobile games that aren't exploiting their players. A list of them is provided here at "No Bullshit Games":
https://nobsgames.stavros.io/

My favorite mobile game is "Monument Valley" from ustwo games. It's a beautiful game with a heartwarming story and you need to think a little bit.
"Riptide GP: Renegade" is also excellent - it's a racing game on water and the water effects look gorgeous. No lootboxes, no DLC, just racing and fun. I bought a gamepad for my tablet just for this game.

Thanks for that link.

I've been working away at one not on there, probably because it does bug you a bit, but so far, everything seems to be do-able eventually without spending actual cash, gotta watch some ads though. It's Dogbyte's "Off The Road" .. got all the lands and half the cars unlocked now. Controls are a bit of a PITA, but you can customise them to reduce the pain. Not for the easily tempted though, or you'll be real money buying all the pointless crap that you can eventually afford collecting in game currency.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 231 of 232, by Joakim

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
DosFreak wrote on 2022-07-28, 23:46:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/diablo-immortal/micr … ons-100-million

Diablo Immortal microtransactions have made over $100 million from player spending on mobile platforms alone, says a report from SensorTower on the RPG game

Boggles the mind doesn't it?

That's it, I've lost faith in mankind. (Peoplekind for all you Canadians.)

I think I'm going to live with the dolphins now. I've read in a book they are smart. Mice might be smarter but the dolphins seem to have a better time.

Reply 232 of 232, by chrismeyer6

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Joakim wrote on 2022-07-29, 05:20:
DosFreak wrote on 2022-07-28, 23:46:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/diablo-immortal/micr … ons-100-million

Diablo Immortal microtransactions have made over $100 million from player spending on mobile platforms alone, says a report from SensorTower on the RPG game

Boggles the mind doesn't it?

That's it, I've lost faith in mankind. (Peoplekind for all you Canadians.)

I think I'm going to live with the dolphins now. I've read in a book they are smart. Mice might be smarter but the dolphins seem to have a better time.

It's one of the reasons me and my wife moved to a nice rural area less people and more nature. It's always pretty quiet here and at night you can see all the stars you want.