In the beginning I wanted basically EVERYTHING for both vintage computing and console gaming. But over time my focus started to shift to more specific stuff.
For me it's the 1990-2000 era for computers, first because it was the era I started with, second because it was a time when a lot of changes happened for PC gaming: It goes from early DOS machines with EGA graphics with no sound using Real mode --> to DOS games with VGA and nice SB support using expanded memory --> to late DOS games using protected mode with VGA/SVGA graphics --> to early Windows games rendered by software --> to later Windows (and even some DOS) games using proprietary 3D acceleration --> to even later Windows games using OpenGL and D3D acceleration. After that era, we basically had improvements over the technologies that "survived" through it, not to mention the phases I mentioned did not happen one after another... they all overlapped, it was compatibility nightmare and I love it (I mean, now I love it due to nostalgia but at the time I dreaded seeing my PC becoming slow and useless in just a few months):D.
For consoles, I like the 3rd, 4th and 5th generations better (a.k.a. 8, 16 and 32 bit), some exceptions on the 2nd one (Atari 2600, but very few games) and 6th one (Dreamcast and PS2 still are architecturally quite different compared to current consoles). For a reason similar to my PC preferences: It was a time of experimenting, not just the game genres were more creative (there was a gradual shift between 2D and 3D), but consoles also worked in a very different way from one another. Nowadays game consoles use the same standard APIs like PC games do, thus are mostly just improvements on top of existing architecture.

gerry wrote on 2023-03-31, 11:33:

Jo22 wrote on 2023-03-29, 20:21:

Yes, it really works. 😃 Well, most of the time. It's fascinating what a little DOS VM and a copy of QB45 or Turbo Pascal/C can s […]
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Yes, it really works. 😃 Well, most of the time. It's fascinating what a little DOS VM and a copy of QB45 or Turbo Pascal/C can still be useful for.

One of my other retro hobbies is to build old schematics in electronics books or PC interface books.
They have schematics for EPROM readers for parallel port, little LCD displays connect via COM ports, interfacing tempetature sensors to gameport etc.

Most of these schematics/projects can be built on a little vero board with little to no extra hardware.
USB serial adapters still work for DOS appli, if Windows 98 or a DOS VM is running.
The only little "problem" is power. USB converters use 3.3v or 5v, not +/-12v.
But that's no problem. Just use use two 9v batteries in series instead of using the serial port's power. Voila! Now you have +9v, ground and -9v.

In fact, even GW-BASIC and QBASIC work for most books. They always have a rudimentary sample program written in BASIC.

If you're on Windows, VB 3 and Turbo Pascal for Windows 1.5 or Delphi 1 are all it needs.

For newer electronics projects VB6 & VB NET 2005 are handy, too.
The 2005 version includes an automatic code converter for VB5/6 code.
VB NET 2008 also has it, but in a more limited form.

that got me thinking, if you can interface with the PC via a VM then with re-mapped VMs you could have dos
VM inside a raspberry pi or something and still interface with things! although in that case why not just write it for the RPi in the first place 😀

Sure, good point! 😀

There are x86 Raspberry Pi's also, however. Like that x86 Duino.
But there are quite a few more x86 based SBCs (single board computers).

My point simply is that there's existing literature about electronic projects that involves an IBM PC with CGA/Hercules graphics and classic i/o ports.
And the QB/QBASIC community has created extensions like DirectQB or that QB64 compiler/interpreter.

I like the Raspberry Pi, really, but it doesn't fascinate me as half as much as an old x86 system (or home computer) I can tinker with.
The whole technology is different. Or we could say it's a different franchise, maybe. Like Star Wars vs Star Trek.

Today, it's all about serial EPROMs, attiny13, temperature sensors with I2C/1wire bus (ds18b20 etc), integrated USB serial converter chips etc. pp.
That's nice and good, but it's not that really interesting to me.

What I like to tinker with are 100% hardware based TTL/CMOS chips. 4000 series, 7400 series. NE555 timer IC, LM741 op amps.
I want to tinker with "living" hardware that reacts to laws of physics rather than software/microcode. Hard-wired circuits, that's interesting! 😁

And that's exactly what the old literature does provide. It tells you how to connect a TTL component to Centronics port, how to toggle a electro-mechanical relays via transistor and RS-232 pin.
It explains how to use a port extender chip on parallel port, how to digitize a monochrome picture via gameport. That's fascinating.

Doing the same with a Raspberry Pi, but with "modules" rather than real electronic components (TTL) isn't the same experience. Too much software.

A similar experience provide old consoles like the NES, I think:
The real thing is "alive", it has undocumented errata, it glitches sometimes etc.
A "NES Mini" or any other emulator box doesn't do that. There's no malfunctioning happening like on a real vintage NES.
Some like that, but people like me prefer something that's "live", like a MIDI synthesizer doing its job vs a pre-recorded MP3.

Working with old electronic circuits is akin to preferring tube technology. It serves the same function, but is differently built. 😀

Yes i see what you mean about older 'bare iron' stuff and raspberry pi - there is a lot of abstraction / software now

for a while i did get into the sbc idea, even bought 2 raspberry pi (one serves as emulator, the other isnt doing much!). Arduino too - which i like more in some ways, there were many variations including the small attiny85 which i programmed to do some very simply things for fun.

i do see the advanage of the rpi though, just its computing power in such a tiny package and the abundance of learning material. perhaps i should revisit it!

it would be fun to drive something from the port on a pc though

i suppose that is one way my interest in vintage computing has changed, in one sense i have simultaneously become more interested in electronics and less interested in acquiring or setting up 'perfect' hardware to play a game or somesuch, a move towards and away from hardware

Jo22 wrote on 2023-04-01, 02:21:

What I like to tinker with are 100% hardware based TTL/CMOS chips. 4000 series, 7400 series. NE555 timer IC, LM741 op amps.
I want to tinker with "living" hardware that reacts to laws of physics rather than software/microcode. Hard-wired circuits, that's interesting! 😁

i remember when i made my first 555 as learning excercise, doing such things feels much closer to the physics

gaffa2002 wrote on 2023-03-31, 20:45:

In the beginning I wanted basically EVERYTHING for both vintage computing and console gaming. But over time my focus started to shift to more specific stuff.
For me it's the 1990-2000 era for computers, first because it was the era I started with, second because it was a time when a lot of changes happened for PC gaming:

the 90's was an amazing time of change and yet i have found that my interest has 'wandered' somehwat away from that (whihc was my interest up to a few years ago) and onto the 64bit era, right at the border of my arbitrary 15 year horizon for 'vintage computing'

the horizon itself is slowly becoming invalid though, computers continue to become more powerful but in the year 2000 it would have been a real stretch to use a circa 1990 computer to browse the web in full (with early flash etc) and certainly a no go for playing year 2000 games (indeed most late 90's games) on a 10 year old machine

yet now if you have a quad core 2013 PC and are willing to add some ram and buy a middling 2017 graphics card you can play most modern games even recent ones (with graphics settings turned down of course) and its possible to get a respectable browsing experience on a 2008 machine given enough ram and an undemanding linux install

Like Jo22...I have learned to box label and organise my stuff...
I am not by nature a tidy worker..but when you can lay your hands on parts you need easily...it IS more fun and a project is more likely to lead to a satisfying conclusion.
Here is a list of completed repairs and satisfying outcomes so far...and this list doesn't include my many many laptops.
1x Pet 4032 with 8050 dual floppy drive.
several commodore machines of the VIC20 and C64 era..at least 3 of Each
Plus 3x 1541 ...and 1x 1540 floppy drives
1x C16
2x Plus 4
1x A1200
2x A500
2x A600
2x Apple IIE
1 Apple II Europlus.
1x Highly modified Toshiba 5200-100 luggable (runs win95)
1x Toshiba luggable T3200SX ((runs Dos and win3.1) this one had an LCD colour screen fitted...as I bought it with a smashed orange gas plasma)
1x 386 retrobuild with networking (shared folders) scsi interface and CD drive.
1x 486 retrobuild
1x Pentium retrobuild (this one uses my pride and joy a Voodoo 5 5500 pci card)
1x fully restored Dell Dimension win98se machine.
and A build I call Fat Bastard...multi OS caddy machine.
It has pull out caddies with various OS on the hard drives.
DOS and win 3.11
NT4
Win95
Win98se
Win ME
and Win XP pro.
Building this was a challenge ...not least because Choosing a suitable mother board was difficult as all these OS had to run on it..
A period P4 was in the end the optimal point in history.
It too has a scsi interface and links to a 4 bay mini scsi tower containing Zip drive PD drive ..pull out caddy with bootable 98se on the drive.
And a Tape reader.
All my builds tend to have scsi...as a portable tape reader makes backing up the various operating systems viable.
As I said already I have many laptops ..but my favourited are the Toshiba period ones ..and period IBM thinkpads ..pre the Lenovo stuff..
and the latest to join my growing family of retro ...the Compaq portable III machines..
The 386 and the current 286 project.
Period machines are given CRT monitors where possible ...I have 4 ..but they are bulky and lack of space is a real problem.
Every now and again I'm offered something new and interesting..
my problem is saying NO..
..I'm like a dog worrying a bone until it lives again...but there is no better feeling than getting a (bare metal) machine working and back to optimum health.
..at least for me anyway.
rgds
VS

I stopped collecting PC-compatibles a while ago. I have a build for each generation, from a Tandy 1000SL up to a P4, including spare parts, mainboards... Only a 386, 486, P1-230MMX and PIII-600 are connected to a display/keyboard/mouse through a KVM. I still buy exotic parts from time to time, if it's affordable or the price tag is reasonable.

I enjoy these computers very much, but, I also collect 8-bit computers like Sinclair, Commodore, MSX and later generations like Amiga and Atari (ST(E)). These computers became a money pit because you start to collect as much as every type or model as you can. These computers also offer modern upgrades like accelerators, cassette alternatives, cartridges... The computers I use a lot are an Amiga 1200, Amiga 4000, Atari STE, Sinclair +3 and a Commodore 64.

And last not least, I own a repair business repairing/restoring vintage computers next to my day job. I work fulltime as an IT analist and do repairs in my spare time. As you can guess, this is very time consuming leaving time for my collection next to nothing.

HomeLate wrote on 2023-04-03, 08:37:

I stopped collecting PC-compatibles a while ago. I have a build for each generation, from a Tandy 1000SL up to a P4, including spare parts, mainboards... Only a 386, 486, P1-230MMX and PIII-600 are connected to a display/keyboard/mouse through a KVM. I still buy exotic parts from time to time, if it's affordable or the price tag is reasonable.

I enjoy these computers very much, but, I also collect 8-bit computers like Sinclair, Commodore, MSX and later generations like Amiga and Atari (ST(E)). These computers became a money pit because you start to collect as much as every type or model as you can. These computers also offer modern upgrades like accelerators, cassette alternatives, cartridges... The computers I use a lot are an Amiga 1200, Amiga 4000, Atari STE, Sinclair +3 and a Commodore 64.

And last not least, I own a repair business repairing/restoring vintage computers next to my day job. I work fulltime as an IT analist and do repairs in my spare time. As you can guess, this is very time consuming leaving time for my collection next to nothing.

sounds like you have good balance for PCs and actually get to enjoy using them 😀

i hear you on the home computer collecting - it can be expensive and there is a lot of variety. i don't have much desire to do that though, making do with emulators for those now

gerry wrote on 2023-04-03, 09:28:

HomeLate wrote on 2023-04-03, 08:37:

I stopped collecting PC-compatibles a while ago. I have a build for each generation, from a Tandy 1000SL up to a P4, including spare parts, mainboards... Only a 386, 486, P1-230MMX and PIII-600 are connected to a display/keyboard/mouse through a KVM. I still buy exotic parts from time to time, if it's affordable or the price tag is reasonable.

I enjoy these computers very much, but, I also collect 8-bit computers like Sinclair, Commodore, MSX and later generations like Amiga and Atari (ST(E)). These computers became a money pit because you start to collect as much as every type or model as you can. These computers also offer modern upgrades like accelerators, cassette alternatives, cartridges... The computers I use a lot are an Amiga 1200, Amiga 4000, Atari STE, Sinclair +3 and a Commodore 64.

And last not least, I own a repair business repairing/restoring vintage computers next to my day job. I work fulltime as an IT analist and do repairs in my spare time. As you can guess, this is very time consuming leaving time for my collection next to nothing.

sounds like you have good balance for PCs and actually get to enjoy using them 😀

i hear you on the home computer collecting - it can be expensive and there is a lot of variety. i don't have much desire to do that though, making do with emulators for those now

It's also an age thing, I try to collect everything I couldn't afford 30 - 40 years ago 😀 A disadvantage of repairing vintage computers: 'damn that's nice computer and I want one too'. As an example: I repaired a BBC Micro a while ago. I enjoyed it so much I bought one myself.

gerry wrote on 2023-04-01, 16:02:

the 90's was an amazing time of change and yet i have found that my interest has 'wandered' somehwat away from that (whihc was m […]
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gaffa2002 wrote on 2023-03-31, 20:45:

In the beginning I wanted basically EVERYTHING for both vintage computing and console gaming. But over time my focus started to shift to more specific stuff.
For me it's the 1990-2000 era for computers, first because it was the era I started with, second because it was a time when a lot of changes happened for PC gaming:

the 90's was an amazing time of change and yet i have found that my interest has 'wandered' somehwat away from that (whihc was my interest up to a few years ago) and onto the 64bit era, right at the border of my arbitrary 15 year horizon for 'vintage computing'

the horizon itself is slowly becoming invalid though, computers continue to become more powerful but in the year 2000 it would have been a real stretch to use a circa 1990 computer to browse the web in full (with early flash etc) and certainly a no go for playing year 2000 games (indeed most late 90's games) on a 10 year old machine

yet now if you have a quad core 2013 PC and are willing to add some ram and buy a middling 2017 graphics card you can play most modern games even recent ones (with graphics settings turned down of course) and its possible to get a respectable browsing experience on a 2008 machine given enough ram and an undemanding linux install

So does mine 😀, in fact I have some spare parts for a 2009 PC (has everything needed except for a dedicated GPU) and from time to time I have the urge for buying a GPU and set it up, one trick I use to resist the urge is to browse online for the desired part, add it to the shopping cart (or equivalent) and promise myself I'm going to buy it eventually. If after some time (i.e. one week) I still want it, then I buy it. Most of the time my interest already shifted to something else and I end up not buying anything, it has been years already and I didn't buy the GPU (yet? Crap, it's coming back...).
Similar feeling comes for pre-1990 or non-PC computers... Apple II, Amiga, Tandy 1000, MSX. Those are is much easier to resist as the urge goes away immediately after seeing the prices for such stuff with no hope for it ever lowering 🙁, they also take a lot of room and require maintenance due to their age, in other words, buying them would be a waste as I can't provide the home such equipment deserves.
Modern computing also don't interest me as much as it used to probably because of what you said about the horizon becoming invalid... my main PC has a low end 2018 CPU (Pentium Gold) and a low end GPU (GTX 1650 4GB), 16GB of RAM, SSD... for regular usage (web browsing, youtube, the vast majority of older games) there is absolutely no difference between it and any high end PC from today. Sometimes the urge to upgrade shows up, but goes away once I start making a list of games I want that I can play/things I can do only if I upgrade... the list usually has no more than 3 items and then I give up.

gaffa2002 wrote on 2023-04-03, 13:47:

from time to time I have the urge for buying a GPU and set it up, one trick I use to resist the urge is to browse online for the desired part, add it to the shopping cart (or equivalent) and promise myself I'm going to buy it eventually. If after some time (i.e. one week) I still want it, then I buy it. Most of the time my interest already shifted to something else and I end up not buying anything

That's indeed a good way to resist to impulse buys 😀

Minutemanqvs wrote on 2023-04-03, 14:23:

gaffa2002 wrote on 2023-04-03, 13:47:

from time to time I have the urge for buying a GPU and set it up, one trick I use to resist the urge is to browse online for the desired part, add it to the shopping cart (or equivalent) and promise myself I'm going to buy it eventually. If after some time (i.e. one week) I still want it, then I buy it. Most of the time my interest already shifted to something else and I end up not buying anything

That's indeed a good way to resist to impulse buys 😀

To be fair I learned this technique from my wife. She calls it "dating" a product before buying.

gaffa2002 wrote on 2023-04-03, 13:47:

Modern computing also don't interest me as much as it used to probably because of what you said about the horizon becoming invalid... my main PC has a low end 2018 CPU (Pentium Gold) and a low end GPU (GTX 1650 4GB), 16GB of RAM, SSD... for regular usage (web browsing, youtube, the vast majority of older games) there is absolutely no difference between it and any high end PC from today. Sometimes the urge to upgrade shows up, but goes away once I start making a list of games I want that I can play/things I can do only if I upgrade... the list usually has no more than 3 items and then I give up.

in some ways this is good as it lowers the 'barrier to entry' for someone who wants to play game from 2000's up until now. A setup like yours (which is a beast compared to mine btw!) is totally equal to any AAA game provided you don't worry about FPS , 4k, streaming etc

that's part of what interests me in newer hardware, the fact that you can mix and match across a decade or more

for online and casual/web* games even an old core 2 will often be fine, i have a couple which go online with Linux and work just fine

*not so much with webgl and intensive 3d online games as its just onboard gpu for these...

gerry wrote on 2023-04-04, 09:05:

in some ways this is good as it lowers the 'barrier to entry' for someone who wants to play game from 2000's up until now. A setup like yours (which is a beast compared to mine btw!) is totally equal to any AAA game provided you don't worry about FPS , 4k, streaming etc

Absolutely, I feel that we are getting to some kind of technological "sweet spot" in which powerful hardware brings less and less benefits while costing more and more. From a technical standpoint a high end computer is indeed multiple times faster than the low end one, but in practical terms such power will generate little visible difference (even when being used to it's fullest).
I really doubt such thing will happen considering how capitalism works, but that would be the perfect time for the gaming industry to take their time developing games, work in optimizations and focus on creativity instead of always rushing to showcase the next generation. I remember one of the reasons Duke Nukem Forever taking so long to be released was due to the game having to be scrapped multiple times to keep up with technology, another funny case which is the complete opposite is GTA V... the same game was released across three console generations (so far), despite obvious improvements in framerate and graphics, it's nowhere near the difference we could see between a PS1 and a PS3 game despite the difference in horsepower between the PS3 and PS5 being far greater in practice.