The version of the photograph is the one I have, in case someone thought I didn't have it, and of course I paid for it with my own money, they didn't gift it to me at the store. It clearly says that it requires Windows 7, Vista or XP.
I don't remember exactly what it said in the EULA regarding compatibility with the game, but I also don't remember that they would decide when the game would no longer be usable on supported operating systems. This box, to me, is a binding contract that says the game works on those operating systems. It's Valve/Steam who decides it doesn't work because they don't want to anymore.
Here at VOGONS piracy and "Abandonware" are prohibited, but we talk calmly that we have to hack our own game, and how to do it, because Valve/Steam have decided so. Perhaps a bit hypocritical to explain methods that can be used to hack, but in the end there is no other option but to do so.
My DVD version of Skyrim may be "Abandonware" because it is no longer supported in XP, because they have explicitly refused and opted out of support. So as long as it's used on XP that was originally intended for it, Valve/Steam have no right to replicate. I do not condone "Abandonware" or piracy. But I have to "hack" my own game to use it in its original form.
In short, I think they should keep a different Steam client for each Operating System they used and for the ones they sold games, discriminating usable games according to the installed client, that is, a client for XP, would only allow to use the original XP functionalities, games that worked on XP, for example.
This would also apply to Windows 7 when support is withdrawn.
I still maintain that Valve/Steam deciding whether or not you can play your game in the original condition you bought it in is clear stealing. If they don't want to do their job, because they're lazy, it's not my fault.
But I'm not a lawyer and I don't understand the law any more than most so that's just my opinion, what I do believe is that in the US where class action lawsuits are common, Valve/Steam should be the subject of a class action lawsuit.
Please note that I am not a collector or anything, just that I have to work to earn my money.
So I apologize to those who feel offended by this opinion.

This box, to me, is a binding contract

1. It clearly isn't. And descriptions are vague anyway.
2. Steam system requirements are not listed.
3. When Skyrim was actually sold in stores - nothing was stopping you from pulling the plug and playing it offline without any client updates. And you can disable Steam autoupdates too.

Not to mention that in 99% of cases it's practically pointless to accuse Valve of everything. They only provide market platform and do not publish or develop all games. It's a specific publisher/developer fault that they've decided (or more likely didn't bother to) not to remove provided DRM.

It can't be a binding contract since nothing was signed, and they say in EULAs they can change them anytime, so how is that binding? Basically you have to comply with copyright anyway, regardless of the EULA, and basically the EULA turns into just a bunch of acknowledgements you are made aware of, including that they might sue you if you don't use the product the way they want. Buyer beware. EULAs are not a steam issue here, but obviously the problem with steam is that it is an online service, and one can choose to tie their access to the game with an online service.

Luckily, there are so many games out there, I just don't even bother with companies that provide poor products. (DRM is a sign of poor products)

Thanks, I'm not a lawyer for good reason, as a curiosity, I just tried to install Skyrim from the DVD in XP and it's not possible, since there's only one installer for Steam and when launching it, the first thing it does is try to update but of course, it cannot be upgraded so it is a paperweight with a very nice map inside but not much weight. I think there are several games with this same problem and the solution is to pirate them, I just can't stop laughing ironically, because I have the original game here, in front of me. 😀. As said, they are unilaterally denying the use of the game under the original conditions.
I have already made my point of view quite clear, whoever wants you to continue wasting your money on Steam and not be surprised when you cannot use your games because Steam is not interested in working to keep them working as they did at the time of the purchase.
If it's not stealing. It is lying, because they tell you that they sell you a game and that it is yours, but they decide when you can no longer play it. If your computer works correctly and for whatever reason you don't want or need a newer one, why can't you play your purchased games?
So in their terms of service it must be clear that the games are not owned by the client and it is Steam who decides if the owner can use its game, even in its original form.
If it was a rental or a service, I would understand, but they treat it like a sale.
So, beware, Steam doesn't really sell games, they rent then untill they want to. Maybe they are years but in the end, they are the ones that.
And in this case, I have a physical copy of the game, it wasn't bought online.
My current conclusion is the following, as I said, let this be a warning to Steam users, games on Steam are not bought, they are rented for as long as they want, maybe years, or maybe, they change the EULA and it will be who knows what.
Maybe if Microsoft decides to launch Windows 12 tomorrow, Steam will decide to stop supporting Windows 10, who knows. I don't have a computer with Windows 11 installed and don't have plans do it.

It is also true that I have not spent money on Steam for many years and I give up my money for lost.

Hoping wrote on 2023-03-29, 17:20:

I think there are several games with this same problem and the solution is to pirate them

No, the solution is to update Windows XP certificates, install old Steam client and disable auto update. But yes, at this point you might as well just crack DRM on your legal copy, since it's your game anyway.

It's possible "sisinstall" will allow you to extract the contents of those files but for Skyrim (pre-Special Edition) to work on XP you can just run steamless against the Skyrim executable and launcher on the supported OS and then copy the game and exes to the XP computer.

May need to import the below in the registry to use the launcher

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Bethesda Softworks\Skyrim]
"installed path"="E:\\Skyrim\\"

Hoping wrote on 2023-03-29, 17:20:

If it's not stealing. It is lying, because they tell you that they sell you a game and that it is yours, but they decide when yo […]
Show full quote

If it's not stealing. It is lying, because they tell you that they sell you a game and that it is yours, but they decide when you can no longer play it. If your computer works correctly and for whatever reason you don't want or need a newer one, why can't you play your purchased games?
So in their terms of service it must be clear that the games are not owned by the client and it is Steam who decides if the owner can use its game, even in its original form.
If it was a rental or a service, I would understand, but they treat it like a sale.
So, beware, Steam doesn't really sell games, they rent then untill they want to. Maybe they are years but in the end, they are the ones that.
And in this case, I have a physical copy of the game, it wasn't bought online.

Er, your physical copy is just some plastic/metal, which I guess only has some bits that tell your computer to connect to steam. Which steam is a service that provides you some more bits. You didn't rent anything. That is just how it works. The terms of sale was valid, and it did do what it was intended to do, and the exchange was complete. If you break your disk down the road, those bits won't work, but that is not steam's fault. (I suppose unless there is a key on your account, of course)

Steam could go away, but that doesn't mean you can get your money back. We're long past the terms of sale. It used to be people always backed up their data in case they lost their disk. It used to be you couldn't just redownload something like steam gives you the option to do. I guess that is what people used to do with their software, and what some are kind of hinting about doing if you want to run on older systems.

Now DRM is another thing really... and I have total sympathy if that is the issue. I haven't used steam much, but it seems like most things I've looked at it doesn't seem they push it that hard. Contrary to what I've seen in the corporate software world lately... stuff gets shut down all the time unless you pay a yearly subscription. Even if you don't have to connect to an online service.

I think Steam lax DRM policy in on purpose at this point. Valve is fully aware that their DRM can be easily circumvented.

I understand that here there are three usual points of view on this kind of topic:
1. It's like that, they rule, you put up with it, no problem.
2. It doesn't seem fair to me, I want to be able to decide what I can do or not do with what I buy and the one who pays demands it. (This is an expression from my country, which means that if you pay for something, you have the power to decide how to use it, since the moment the other sells, he loses the right to what he has sold, because it ceases to be his). But it seems clear that this does not apply here, and you pay, but the other is in charge.
3. Let them do what they want, for problems there are always solutions, and I will find my solution.
When I think something is unfair or not correct, I personally tend to go to point 2 and then point 3.
I have to look in the pile for a computer that I have with fully updated XP as a result of the tests with Windows update minitool, the problem is that the graphics card it has is far from running Skyrim.
What Steam does still do not seem fair to me, and regardless of its EULA or whatever, it does not seem honest to buyers, but it is the usual practice of large companies, money before customers, they have so many customers that one or two more do not matter to them.
I'm not going to play Skyrim anyway, too much work to install.
I have many better options on GOG that only need a couple of clicks.
Furthermore, I'm one of those who like to have games downloaded and sorted my way, I never use the Galaxy client.
And, yes, no DRM.

If you think it's bad now just think of when streaming is common place.

The attitude from the majority will think running things locally is idiotic.......these is how similar discussions go today on the Steam forums except projected further into the future when streaming is commonplace:
Q: Why don't you just log into your browser and play like the rest of us?
A: Because that's idiotic, I don't want to rely on the Internet.
Q: Why not, does your Internet suck?
A: Do you play on a phone/Apple VR or handheld? Do you always have Internet?
Q: Duh, brah. I've got like 8G (they don't know what they have), It's just $299 a month for Internet and $50 for streaming. Cheap ass loser.
A: What about xxx game and xxx and xxx games, they were pulled?
Q: Dude, that's old ass shit why you even play that bro?
A: Youre right! Playing locally is a PITA. Going to go watch Ow! My Balls! now and get things setup for streaming. Thanks!

It just goes round and round until people finally give up. People get dumber, companies get richer.

Hoping wrote on 2023-03-29, 20:15:

2. It doesn't seem fair to me, I want to be able to decide what I can do or not do with what I buy and the one who pays demands it. (This is an expression from my country, which means that if you pay for something, you have the power to decide how to use it, since the moment the other sells, he loses the right to what he has sold, because it ceases to be his). But it seems clear that this does not apply here, and you pay, but the other is in charge.

Actually you don't loose right to what was sold. You bought a product that simply requires to use a service to get running. Services can change. Services can disappear. You can even sell it, but the service provider doesn't have to provide the service. But you are can sell the physical copy no matter how stupid it really is.

Hoping wrote on 2023-03-29, 20:15:

I'm not going to play Skyrim anyway, too much work to install. I have many better options on GOG that only need a couple of clic […]
Show full quote

I'm not going to play Skyrim anyway, too much work to install.
I have many better options on GOG that only need a couple of clicks.
Furthermore, I'm one of those who like to have games downloaded and sorted my way, I never use the Galaxy client.
And, yes, no DRM.

Excellent. I agree this concept of always on digital access rights is inferior of a product design. That is why I have avoided it since it started showing up. Sadly it's true most people won't understand what they got into.

I like the idea of ​​being as independent as possible, and Steam is totally against that and getting worse, and I also try to prioritize the idea of ​​live and let live. And Steam is also against that because they change the rules in their interest without asking.
It's just that if I feel harmed or deceived, as in this case, I don't feel comfortable at all, and I tend to move away from what was imposed on me.
God save us from living in a world where all games are streaming or like Microsoft game pass.
I can't understand how the new generations see normal how Steam works and others that use the same system.
Don't they realize that every time you pay more for less?
I don't really think that using DRM is good and useful lat all because every game gets cracked fairly soon I think. Because if the programmers of the DRM system are good, there are always better programmers in another place, because, nobody is god, and only god could make perfect things if he wanted to.

Under EU law, this isn't actually all that legal. They cannot hold your license hostage because of something they decided to change, nor can they make it invalid as they see fit. There was a lawsuit where the judge ignored the EULA because under EU law its irrelevant. The guy won in court and was able to sell his Autodesk license AFAIK

Valve is playing with fire here, they just didn't burn the "right" person yet.

Some more info here
https://www.worldcadaccess.com/blog/2012/07/a … ware-in-eu.html
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx? … fa-7a8afd8b3380

As far as I'm concerned, Steam is explicitly for modern environments and I accept that and price them in into my purchases (because of the limitations, never buy anything for full price). As for Game Pass and streaming, I also accept them for what they are, and price the limitations in, for zero ownership I pay zero money and spend zero time on those services.

DosFreak wrote on 2023-03-29, 18:38:

It's possible "sisinstall" will allow you to extract the contents of those files but for Skyrim (pre-Special Edition) to work on […]
Show full quote

It's possible "sisinstall" will allow you to extract the contents of those files but for Skyrim (pre-Special Edition) to work on XP you can just run steamless against the Skyrim executable and launcher on the supported OS and then copy the game and exes to the XP computer.

May need to import the below in the registry to use the launcher

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Bethesda Softworks\Skyrim]
"installed path"="E:\\Skyrim\\"

As a side note in case someone intends to do this, while you can get Skyrim to run without Steam I think the classic version of Skyrim Script Extender requires Steam to work, limiting modding severely.

And not just modding, several engine fixes also rely on SKSE. I couldn't even play the game without a SKSE plugin that forced the game to borderless window, without it on my system the game was skipping frames like a DOS game on 60Hz only display.

For Skyse and similar you can use SSE (smartsteamemu). I had to test this recently to get fallout new vegas to work with Tale of Two Wastelands due to that idiotic requirement. Mods requiring DRM is insanity.

I can post further details if interested.

I think the correct path forward is to bring a class action lawsuit against the companies themselves. I don't believe the EULAs should legally protect them from morphing the requirements of software after purchase even if their distribution platform/DRM is separate from their product.

I don't have the time or inclination to do this but I think it's the correct way forward. This is along the same lines as right to repair in my opinion...obviously not identical, even more critical to usage in my opinion though.

Anyways don't take my head off, its just my opinion.

it's why I put "provided without bias"

i'm just passing this new bulletin, i'm not part of the jailbreaking discourse. I'm more annoyed at the trickle down regressions (microsoft visual studio OS-exclusive runtimes -> google chrome -> steam) as that's exactly what killed XP support earlier, and Steam's not the only thing doing this. "Defective by design" may be one way of putting it, but that has too much association with 'try GNU/Linux' marketing.

I currently am using Win10 (being hardware locked to 10 minimum), and I think it sucks. It's a bit sad because Steam was motivated from Win10's horrible proposal for a Windows Store (which was still broken by 2020) and UWP exclusivity.

Hoping wrote on 2023-03-29, 15:23:

I don't remember exactly what it said in the EULA regarding compatibility with the game, but I also don't remember that they would decide when the game would no longer be usable on supported operating systems. This box, to me, is a binding contract that says the game works on those operating systems. It's Valve/Steam who decides it doesn't work because they don't want to anymore.

I have a game that requires Steam activations (Civilization V) and it explicitly says on the box that using the software requires use of and acceptance of the Steam Subscriber Agreement. Presumably any software requiring Steam activation would carry with it a similar clause.

The Steam Subscribe Agreement itself includes the clause:

TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, NEITHER VALVE NOR ITS AFFILIATES GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE CONTENT AND SERVICES, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTION(S) OR ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH.

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

Now whether or not this is strictly legal will entirely depend on the jurisdiction and whatever lawsuits may arise. But given that Steam already discontinued Windows XP support, I don't think anyone should be surprised at the discontinuation of Windows 7 / 8 support. Nor do I think we'll see any sufficient legal action to coerce Valve nor any other companies involved into retaining indefinite support for any software platforms.

Shagittarius wrote on 2023-03-30, 16:03:

I think the correct path forward is to bring a class action lawsuit against the companies themselves. I don't believe the EULAs should legally protect them from morphing the requirements of software after purchase even if their distribution platform/DRM is separate from their product.

The potential consequence if companies start getting sued over this is a further push towards subscription models.