Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2023-07-23, 09:26:

I found the best way to deal with fatigue is physical exercise, for which I unfortunately don't have much time. But I tried to walk or ride my bicycle whenever I can.

I agree 🙂

Tetrium wrote on 2023-07-23, 23:28:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2023-07-23, 09:26:

I found the best way to deal with fatigue is physical exercise, for which I unfortunately don't have much time. But I tried to walk or ride my bicycle whenever I can.

I agree 🙂

We're getting old, aren't we? 😁

Sometimes I wish I spent my youth jogging or bicycling around instead of wasting those nights trying to program Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS / TQS throttle to play Gunship 2000! 🤣

chris2021 wrote on 2023-07-21, 03:09:

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-07-18, 21:54:

Get checked out for sleep apnea also, I was a zombie from it for like 3 decades until it messed my heart up and THEN they took it serious. Though I had my doubts about my heart from long back too, but it would never act up in front of the docs. I've got this inconvenient "healthy as a horse, strong as an ox" look so as long as I can stand up and talk, docs don't think there's anything wrong. I've heard it 4 times now, once for the heart and 3 times for serious infections, and after they run tests, "I can't believe you walked in here..." Well I'm sorry Doc, I just suck at dying I guess.

Edit: Heh I was heading towards a point then forgot to put it in. So don't let the docs fob you off with "just get some fresh air and exercise" if you know you're feeling really shitty for some undetermined reason and the normal stuff isn't helping, just keep hammering at them, they seem to think just walking in their office cures you of all ills some of them.

So the typical remedy is a cpap machine. Is that what you use? Did it turn your life around? Much more enerfy and drive?

Ooops missed that bit. Yah, cpap machine helped a lot when I got it, it's the only remedy I am aware of for anything past mild levels of sleep apnea. I was trying to literally bandaid the problem before getting diagnosed with those nasal strips that keep your nose wide open, but it's internally in your neck, throat, where the airway closes up worst and the pressure from the machine keeps it open. Otherwise you are getting your panic suffocation response kick you half awake to tense your throat muscles up and open your airway again multiple times an hour and never get into deep, refreshing REM sleep. Big risk factor is neck circumference more than 17".... mine is 17.5 when I'm skinny, up to 18.5 when I'm overweight. Keep on that like a broken record to your doc if your neck measurement is higher than 17", keep mentioning it, and you're low energy and nodding off too early in the day.

They do take a bit of getting used to, a week maybe. I'm not exactly super energetic from it, but I took damage as it were prior to getting it, and require other meds that have drowsy, slow metabolism side effects. I really really feel like crap though if there's a reason I wasn't on it all night, like power outage, or the odd night where I thrash around early on and disconnect things accidentally. It turned my life around in the sense that it kept me from going into that hole in the ground quite yet, I do wish I had it at least 10 years earlier though, so I didn't actually get to be teetering on the edge first.

CPAP gang chiming in, and was great to read your take on it @BitWrangler, really resonates with me as I feel pretty much the same.

I've been diagnosed with serious sleep apnea something like 8 years ago (I'll be 41 in 2 weeks) after past girlfriends going "you're the worst snorer I've ever heard" to my now wife that told me "you sometimes stop breathing completely while you sleep and I think you're gonna die, then you come back and gasp for air, it's fucking frightening, please get checked". And I did.

I had none of the obvious risk factors. I was extremely sporty up to being 20yo, then became a little sedentary when I started working full time, but was still pretty fit. I never once slept on my back. No family history. It just happened little by little for no good medical explanation. I had grown chronically tired and used to it. The sleep-deprived equivalent of a functional alcoholic you might say. But had no real idea what sleep apnea was really, and would never have thought I had it. In my mind I was just a heavy snorer.

Then I went and was easily diagnosed with severe sleep apnea. Went home with my CPAP the very same day, and haven't voluntarily spent a night without it since then (the only nights I've missed where during travels where I forgot some part of the device that prevented me from using it...). I sleep ~7hours per night, with the CPAP on at all times. It was life-changing. Sleeping without my CPAP for the few occurrences it happened is just a nightmare now, it's completely part of my life and my night and sleep quality has completely turned around for the best. But unlike other success stories I can't tell I've regained energy, similar to BitWrangler it seems. Ironically, I still feel chronically tired. But again - wouldn't go back for ANYTHING. It's really life-changing.

All that to say, get diagnosed if you can and if there is any doubt. Sleeping with a CPAP is not as big of a thing as we believe when we first hear about it. For what it's worth, a good friend was also a heavy snorer, to the point where he and wife slept in separate rooms. She found him unconscious in the morning when he was not waking up, it appeared it was sleep apnea too and he suffered from a stroke overnight, at 45yo. Pretty common with sleep apnea. He didn't die from it, but is seriously handicapped now. Shit's fucked.

So you say you're still chronically tired. So what has changed? Better sleep ought to alleviate that. One would think.

I have heatd people say their energy increased. A guy in his 60s once over 10 years ago. I knew a guy, mid 20s, who got diagnosed. And this bloke had clinical OCD (don't assume you know what that is). He didn't say it cured him of everything. But it made some big changes. Last I heard he staryed going to a cardiologiat and was on some form of "stimulant". Now that often means something like ritalin or whatever. Ritalin is used for adhd and depression. Regardless I don't know what he's on.
Never slept on your back. I won't say never. Rarely I will wake up on my back. I'm a side/stomach sleeper and am prone to flop around.

chris2021 wrote on 2023-07-28, 22:46:

So you say you're still chronically tired. So what has changed? Better sleep ought to alleviate that. One would think.

To clarify it is still heaps better, I would never go back, and wouldn't do a single night without the CPAP. What I meant is that when I was reading online about the whole thing before my diagnostic appointment, and also discussing with the specialists over there, you learn about success stories and people making "miraculous" recoveries or complete 180° in their lives.

I my case, I wouldn't say it was miraculous...it was way more subtle, but definitely 100% positive. My health has improved, the metrics and yearly check I do with the doctors also confirmed everything is way better in regards to my sleep and overall health and associated risks...so to be completely honest and transparent, my lack of energy today makes me think it is more akin to depression-related symptoms and not the shitty sleep only. But still...being diagnosed for sleep apnea, and using a CPAP has really had a major positive impact and couldn't do without it.

I just follow this routine every day.

Haha very funny.

I never drank a red bull. Caffeine doesn't give me energy anyway.

newtmonkey wrote on 2023-07-19, 08:20:

OP: Your low energy level is due to being inactive and fat. That's all. You are doing everything you can to avoid what you need to do, which is make major lifestyle changes. There is no substitute for eating right and exercising regularly. If you are 50 and fat and want to live with any kind of QoL for another 20+ years, you need to stop looking at little tweaks and fad stuff on Amazon, and start seriously changing your life. If you do not change now, it is gonna get worse.

A 50 year old man shouldn't get winded from cleaning up after his cat. You need to exercise regularly, especially if you work at a desk all day. Start walking every day, at the absolute least, and work up to jogging 2-3 times a week minimum.

Yes I do need to build up to exercising regularly somewhat. But you're in stating it's solely due to being lazy is what you're saying essentially. I've never felt energetic, even as a child. I wasn't a couch potato, but avoided sports for the most part.

I was overhauling my car in 2020, right when covid was at it's height. It took me 15 weeks 🤣, so, ok I was dragging my feet, I opted to take buses to work.which required a total of 2 hours of walking per day. I was eating garbage, hot pockets, soda, candy bars, pies. Other stuff. Anything I could grab. Everything was processed. I still dropped down to 285. And when I finished my car (a job that should have taken a weekend or 2 at most) I was so glad. All that walking sucked!!! I didn't feel better. At least not to the extent that I wanted to keep walking.

If I was eating right, like I had the time, I'm sure I easily could have brought myself down to 270. Or lower.

chris2021 wrote on 2023-08-10, 05:16:

But you're in stating it's solely due to being lazy is what you're saying essentially. I've never felt energetic, even as a child. I wasn't a couch potato, but avoided sports for the most part.

I want to respond to this part because I don't want you to misunderstand what I was saying (btw, good job at keeping your weight down). I never said you were lazy, I said you were doing everything you could to not exercise and eat right. It's different. This is an American thing; I know because I grew up there. You have ads blasting at you 24/7 and everyone around you (mostly obese), telling you that you don't need to exercise or eat right, because no one has time for that, etc. Modern life is so busy, blah blah blah.

What I am saying is, the most crucial thing in your life, other than spending time with your loved ones, is exercising and eating right. You simply must make time for it. It would unquestionably improve your quality of life. If you are winded cleaning your cat box now at 50, what do you think your life will be like at 60 or 70? I'm a few years younger than you, but I have also had debilitating asthma my whole life. But still, I exercise six days a week, either jogging, lifting weights, or martial arts, and I have done so since I was in high school. It absolutely changed my quality of life. You have to find time for it. I've got a family and for the last 10 years have been running my own business. I have "no" time. Still, it's not very difficult to find 30 minutes here and there to go for a run or lift some weights.

I didn't write what I did as some kind of insult. I wrote it as someone who probably knows exactly the situation you're in, but I wanted to help. I know many people back home that just got more and more unhealthy as time went on, because they "simply didn't have the time." That's a bullshit excuse imo. Unless you are a single mother working two jobs, there's no excuse. 10 minutes of honest exercise is better than nothing. From there, it's not difficult to add another 5 or 10 minutes when you have time. Before you know it, you're finding time to exercise 40+ minutes a day. Even if you somehow are so busy that you cannot do that, at least eat right. No fad diets. Just three solid good meals a day, and if you need to snack, keep to veggies and nuts.

As already mentioned, fatigue could be related to depression and stress, either at work or due to relationships. Mind burnouts are the usual cause of fatigue. You also get fatigue after exercise but recover fast after some rest and rehydration. The mind fatigue on the other hand takes days or even weeks to recover. It's more of a mental challenge to overcome it.

As Vogoners, continue tinkering with your vintage machines and actually play your favorite DOS classics. If you have time, take break for a few days and visit a place you wanted to go.

My DOS classics, map making in RPG games, revisiting old classics and taking a break by going on holiday to my neighboring Thailand beach is what keeps me fighting on.

A few notes here based on my experience with weight loss and doctors

-Doctors usually don't order thyroid panels during annual physicals. I specifically asked my doctor if he was doing it with the blood panels and he stated "no". I asked if it was possible to do since I have a family history of thyroid issues, and he had no problem adding it on. Its an extra vial of blood and I wasn't charged extra for it.

-Packaged yogurts are filled with sugar. Stick with unsweetened or "zero sugar" cups. Yes, the zero sugar stuff has artificial sweetener in it. Look at the labels, they aren't hiding the sugar in anything.

-Both diet and exercise are a must. Yeah, winters are lousy around here, but even then I try to get a walk in after dinner (roughly 2 miles). During the summer I bike roughly 4-6 miles, with hills, almost every day as it is weather dependent.... in addition to the walk most days. You won't get killed or into a fight on a walk, typically people mind themselves in NJ.

-You need variety in meals, and maybe lower the sheer volume of food intake. Its dull and boring, but counting calories does work. I'm assuming you live alone, so you solely control what food enters the fridge in the house. Given the increases in prices, your wallet will notice if you are on a proper diet.

-If eating out, ask for a takeout container to be delivered with the meal. Throw half it in the container then eat the rest on the plate. Portion sizes are fairly large at most places from a calorie perspective (even post COVID era inflation). The sneaky stuff is the "healthy" stuff like those "fresh wraps". The normal size of most of those is easily two meals. Also, chains are required to post calorie counts now...some of them are eye opening.

-Best advice I've followed is The Hacker's Diet: https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/ He gives very simple directions for daily exercise that requires no equipment that can be done anywhere. You start off gradual and work your way up. Basics on calorie counting and intake are covered. Perhaps the biggest takeaway I got is track your weight every day.

I just had a cat die. People can laugh, it's the worst I've felt about an animal's.passing, with 1 exception. I was very attached. Gratefully her actual passing was quick. As morbid as that sounds. This was after being "taken" once again by 1 of these after hours emergency clinics.

I know what depression is. I finally experienced some a couple months ago. Lasted less then a week. It was truly a feeling of hopelessness. I'm not going to go into detail. I got over at least 80% of it in days. "It is what it is". I'm pretty resilient. I don't dwell on circumstancesthings too much. AND ... as a somewhat philosophical and religious person, I dwell on crap daily that would likely drive most people mad. I take it all in stride. "He was always such a happy boy" said Penny Fleck. Even while tied to the radiator! 🤣 🤣. That's kind of me.

No, my problem is movememt. I get dizzy easily. I never mentioned that I don't think. Get windwd easily, for about 2 years. My bloodwork came back, everythings kosher. When my weigjt is all the way down, next year, maybe things will turn around. It's also the various pains going on in my body. I'm a wuss when it comes to pain. If ya wake up ache and cranky it's going to take something out of you.

NJRoadfan wrote on 2023-08-14, 02:39:

A few notes here based on my experience with weight loss and doctors

-Doctors usually don't order thyroid panels during annual physicals. I specifically asked my doctor if he was doing it with the blood panels and he stated "no". I asked if it was possible to do since I have a family history of thyroid issues, and he had no problem adding it on. Its an extra vial of blood and I wasn't charged extra for it.

-Packaged yogurts are filled with sugar. Stick with unsweetened or "zero sugar" cups. Yes, the zero sugar stuff has artificial sweetener in it. Look at the labels, they aren't hiding the sugar in anything.[/quote]

My oldest sister freaked out when I told her my diet consisted of or nearly a quart of (lowfat) yogurt a day. I lost so much weight in 2016 due that very thing. People are so stressed about sugar. I've never been pre diabetic, although in 2011 my triglycerides were 405 (stupid me). They tell you to not even eat fruit or drink orange juice! Sugar *could* be a problem for some people. *Those* people have to be careful obviously.
In addition to the yogurt, I was drinking 2 really big cups of coffee, to keep myself full (along w/low cal seltzers and stuff). I would put 5 sugars and 5 creamers in each. Eventually I cut down to 4. The sugar consumption wasn't a problem whatsoever. I lost 66 lbs. in 5 1/2 months.

NJRoadfan wrote on 2023-08-14, 02:39:

-Both diet and exercise are a must. Yeah, winters are lousy around here, but even then I try to get a walk in after dinner (roughly 2 miles). During the summer I bike roughly 4-6 miles, with hills, almost every day as it is weather dependent.... in addition to the walk most days. You won't get killed or into a fight on a walk, typically people mind themselves in NJ.

Ok 🤣. I have to respectfully yet vehemently disagree here. Just walking down to the bay, which I haven't done much at all of since living here, I nearly got ran over twice. I'll just leave it at that. Nuh uh. Don't go for walks in Joisy where cars can pay a visit.
I thought you were from Mass?

NJRoadfan wrote on 2023-08-14, 02:39:

-You need variety in meals, and maybe lower the sheer volume of food intake. Its dull and boring, but counting calories does work. I'm assuming you live alone, so you solely control what food enters the fridge in the house. Given the increases in prices, your wallet will notice if you are on a proper diet.

-If eating out, ask for a takeout container to be delivered with the meal. Throw half it in the container then eat the rest on the plate. Portion sizes are fairly large at most places from a calorie perspective (even post COVID era inflation). The sneaky stuff is the "healthy" stuff like those "fresh wraps". The normal size of most of those is easily two meals. Also, chains are required to post calorie counts now...some of them are eye opening.

Variety is for weaklings 😀. I took 3 days off of my diet. I'm back on scrambled egss, yogurt, hamburgers, and ... I have to shop for some veggies. For 4 or 5 days. And snacks. Maybe some more Clancy's faux Doritoes from Aldi. Truth is I was on the diet for 4 weeks. Lost 10 lbs. That's a little high. If you lose weight too fast you could lose muscle mass, hair, etc. After that 4 weeks I took 9 days off! It seemed my weight shot back up to where it was. I called myself a moron. But after the last week (4 days of dieting) it was coming righ back down. I got this. Just need to fine tune it all
I've eaten like crap all my life (obviously). My doctor was all poopoo about the hamburger. I think I'll survive. And can do a changeup for chicken or fishy material. Or plant slabs. "Oh but they're processed". So's my brain.

NJRoadfan wrote on 2023-08-14, 02:39:

-Best advice I've followed is The Hacker's Diet: https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/ He gives very simple directions for daily exercise that requires no equipment that can be done anywhere. You start off gradual and work your way up. Basics on calorie counting and intake are covered. Perhaps the biggest takeaway I got is track your weight every day.

Interesting but probably unnecessary. Calorie counting, exercise, and weighing is for plebes! I HAVE THE SECRETS. Trust me what I'm doing works. It helps if you're somewhat boring. Around the time I first moved to NJ, I "rediscovered" grits w/milk and sugar for breakfast. I ate it, listen to me, EVERY SINGLE DAY for 6 months. Loved the stuff. I love to eat. But fortunately unlike a lot of people I prefer "food" over crappola. Candy, cakes, ice cream. I never ever feel good after consuming crappola like that. Not that I don't indugle once in a while. I had a box of these coconut chocolate cookies from Dollar General yesterday. They were surprisingly good. But they made me sick at the same time. Maybe because I ate the box. Well, not the box...

A reluctance to even fire up my 3d printer. It just sits there, and cries:

I have a goodly number of stl files to print (mostly stupor heroes). I would like to create my own files, say 35-40mm gauls,celts, and crusader knights. Sci-fi weirdos also. But something tells me this unit may be a bit lacking in doneness (it cost 100$ to my door). Still 40mm isn't that small.

Also structures for model railways. Some state a spool fed printer is better for that. We'll have to see.

On a happy note I found my exercise band. Damn can you work it with that. I fear I may break it
Shouldn't do itnaroumd animals.

Through reading about several different topics, I've got info coming together that may represent a diet optimisation to feel a little better. There are multiple routes to this conclusion, so I personally consider it somewhat sound, you may of course form your own opinions. In simple terms it goes... the bioavailability of nutrients and minerals in food grown in volcanic soils may be superior to food grown in alluvial/sedimentary soils. It is thought also that many of our "flatland" soils are getting exhausted, whereas volcanic soils are in comparison slow release. There are a lot of pointers in this direction, for example the Mediterranean diet thought to be very healthy... is for people in the Med who are eating food grown on the recent and not so recent emissions of Vesuvius and Etna. The types of food are a factor, though coincidentally or not they grow well in those soils. But anyway, short version is, try to get as much as your diet as is practical from volcanic regions (ancient, historic and recent). Islands are a bit more identifiable as definitively volcanic, as opposed to "some part of" larger countries. Therefore places like New Zealand, Canaries, Azores, Sicily, Java, Iceland, Hawaii etc which are very volcanic might be good to seek fruit and veg from. Ideally you want the most solids for your money. I doubt that getting Javanese coconut water is gonna do you any better than getting something produced nearer to you, coconut meat might be a different story. Dried fruit may be the best value.

Anyway, just passing along where my head is on that, take it as-is, if you've got a choice between foods and one is grown somewhere boring and the other somewhere volcanic, pick the volcanic one. Looking into stuff for personal interest here, not dotting Is and crossing Ts on the arguments, so not gonna bother defending this at the moment, might be more solid later.

I think it would help if one didn't have to do 8-16/9-5 routine (or worse) every work day, for months, for years, with very few leave days in-between. But I guess that's not a problem for workaholics.

Fruit is Natures Fast Food.
( Apples, Pears, Grapes, Melons, Peaches, Berries, etc )
Eat Raw or Make a Smoothie.

Nourish the body with nutrients and water to Vitalize the body.

I take pictures of cats in a cat cafe or at the cat village; pet them if possible.

Smile for the camera!