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Reply 80 of 406, by DerBaum

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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-01-05, 20:28:

...One of the dangers of buying way too much "stuff" is it becomes less about the hobby and more about inventory management...

or an overwhelming hoard...
Ask me how i know...

FCKGW-RHQQ2

Reply 81 of 406, by dowrmem

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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-01-05, 20:28:
ThinkpadIL wrote on 2024-01-05, 20:10:

Since then I purchased around one hundred or even more different vintage computers and I hope that like you I won't lose my interest in this hobby in the next few years.

Why so many?

One of the dangers of buying way too much "stuff" is it becomes less about the hobby and more about inventory management. That can lead to burn out.

Wait I thought that was a benefit, then I get to selfhost an inventory management system and utilize my homelab more. When I utilize my homelab more I get to buy even more computer hardware. Of course I'm not getting rid of my old homelab hardware, it's sentimental now. So it goes in the inventory management system. What do you mean "do I run an ITAD company", this is my apartment...

Reply 82 of 406, by schmatzler

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DerBaum wrote on 2024-01-05, 22:30:

or an overwhelming hoard...

Wait, it's not normal to have your room filled from top to bottom with obscure electronics and lights blinking in every corner?

Just asking for a friend...

"Windows 98's natural state is locked up"

Reply 83 of 406, by Shponglefan

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ThinkpadIL wrote on 2024-01-05, 21:05:

Well, there are some forty or fifty more in my wishlist. And till now I wasn't aware that it is "many".

Didn't mean to sound so judgey, so I do apologize if it came across that way.

Speaking as someone with about 25 retro computers, I consider even that many to be a lot, since only a few are even hooked up at any given time.

Actually most of them are different modifications of the same model, like IBM Thinkpad 600, 600E and 600X, or different models in the same line of computers, like Sharp PC-1251, 1261, 1270, 1350, 1360, 1450, 1500, 1500A, 1501, G815, G830, G850VS. Some were bought accidentally cause they were coming with some other hardware I was looking for, like Brother PN-8500MDSe and Tandy 600. So today I find myself with around one hundred vintage computers and some few hundreds more peripheral devices, adapters, cables and other stuff for those computers.

That's an impressive sounding collection for sure!

And what about you? Do you concentrate on some specific model?

No so much. I mostly do custom builds based on different themes more than buying specific models.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 84 of 406, by rmay635703

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Shponglefan wrote on 2024-01-04, 19:32:
DerBaum wrote on 2024-01-04, 18:17:

For me the point i was asking if i should watch 8-bit guy was when he promoted "the right to wear his guns in a supermarket" at a retro convention.
I know this is totally normal in america... but in my world that is a huge nono to promote guns where kids could hear it. I really hate weapons and will never watch and or promote channels pomoting them.

A lot of the backlash for the 8-bit Guy was the infamous Home Depot video where he was doing open carry for the express purpose of pissing off gun control advocates. This was right after the Sandy Hook shootings.

To be such an IRL troll and that insensitive about the situation... that was a huge yikes about his character for sure.

I thought I’ve watched all 8bit guy content but there is a lot of stuff that gets skipped over like that.

Millions of years ago the 8bit guy wasn’t the 8bit guy and had a bunch of other channels and honestly doing a straight through watch of all his content is somewhat impossible, took a while to find his mad scientist episode and I had to know exactly what I was looking for as that channel was dead .

Ah well, personally like the 8bit guys content and occasionally bother him when he posts on Prius and “other” non-vogons forums. Honestly I like his old stuff more than most LGR episodes.

I do think we have sort of a retro implosion recently with less long form content.

YouTube is really good at hiding content I would like from more obscure folks, and my feed implodes with garbage occasionally,

Threads on retro YouTube channels here have been helpful since some of the folks I follow have slowed down massively

Reply 85 of 406, by Fujoshi-hime

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dowrmem wrote on 2024-01-04, 14:04:

some great channels have popped up recently like The Serial Port...

Wow, I'd never heard of this channel but after seeing the mention here, checked it out, subbed, started watching in bed and got through like 90s mins of building a 90s dial up ISP before I couldn't stay awake any longer. Nifty stuff! Mostly interesting cause it's looking at what we've not seen covered in depth before: The back of house of 90s internet. Thanks a lot.

Reply 86 of 406, by ThinkpadIL

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dowrmem wrote on 2024-01-05, 23:24:

Wait I thought that was a benefit, then I get to selfhost an inventory management system and utilize my homelab more. When I utilize my homelab more I get to buy even more computer hardware. Of course I'm not getting rid of my old homelab hardware, it's sentimental now. So it goes in the inventory management system. What do you mean "do I run an ITAD company", this is my apartment...

schmatzler wrote on 2024-01-05, 23:29:

Wait, it's not normal to have your room filled from top to bottom with obscure electronics and lights blinking in every corner?

Just asking for a friend...

Good ones. 😄

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-01-05, 23:46:

Didn't mean to sound so judgey, so I do apologize if it came across that way.

Speaking as someone with about 25 retro computers, I consider even that many to be a lot, since only a few are even hooked up at any given time.

You don't have to apologize, it's OK. I was aware of a hoarding problem from the start so that's why I decided to collect laptops, palmtops, handhelds and pocket computers only. As an exception I have only one desktop tower and one portable (Dolch PAC). So, in spite of a large quantity they do not occupy too much space and my apartment still looks like an apartment and not like a mad nerd's cave.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-01-05, 23:46:

That's an impressive sounding collection for sure!

It's not about quantity, each model was chosen for some reason after making a research. I'm not an IT person and my knowledge in programming and electronics is very limited, so I'm collecting only those computers that I can deal with, that means those I can use BASIC, Pascal and make some experimentations with Assembler with a book opened. I'm not a gamer so my thing is mostly a little bit of tinkering and little bit of programming.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-01-05, 23:46:

No so much. I mostly do custom builds based on different themes more than buying specific models.

That's impressive. So you're mostly in desktops. That explains why you limit yourself with a quantity of computers. When I started with this hobby, after watching some videos on Youtude and some photos of collectors caves I quickly realized that my only option is the small ones.

Reply 87 of 406, by maxtherabbit

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Fujoshi-hime wrote on 2024-01-06, 02:11:
dowrmem wrote on 2024-01-04, 14:04:

some great channels have popped up recently like The Serial Port...

Wow, I'd never heard of this channel but after seeing the mention here, checked it out, subbed, started watching in bed and got through like 90s mins of building a 90s dial up ISP before I couldn't stay awake any longer. Nifty stuff! Mostly interesting cause it's looking at what we've not seen covered in depth before: The back of house of 90s internet. Thanks a lot.

Yeah they're easily my favorite new youtube channel

Reply 88 of 406, by ElectroSoldier

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The 8bit guy shot himself in the foot when he decided to do youtube full time.
As soon as he made the video about it the amount of videos he made dropped in a month, and what he was making them about changed enough so as to be not as interesting any more.
The last few I watched were about him making his own computer, which isnt interesting to me.

PiHole is one of the best things thats happened to youtube in recent years.
Its stopped the ads, which means people cant dump crap on there to make money, its about people making videos because theyre interested in making the videos.

Reply 89 of 406, by Rwolf

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I just rediscovered 'Curious Marc', I enjoyed his *really* old hardware videos, and also the good team working on restoring Apollo electronics and similar things. (I had been a subscriber but lost track the channel some time ago). No sloppy work there IMO.

Reply 90 of 406, by ThinkpadIL

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ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-01-06, 19:46:

The 8bit guy shot himself in the foot when he decided to do youtube full time.
As soon as he made the video about it the amount of videos he made dropped in a month, and what he was making them about changed enough so as to be not as interesting any more.
The last few I watched were about him making his own computer, which isnt interesting to me.

Yes, it seems that many of top youtubers in the niche segments like vintage computing saw in youtubing easy money and some of them decided to make youtubing their full time job.

The reason why I made this topic is that in my view if top youtubers like The 8-Bit Guy and LGR will fail (and signs of their possible failure are seen already with a naked eye) this may demoralize other youtubers who may see a professional level vintage computing youtubing as a waste of time and in the end will stay only pure enthusiasts who will make videos from time to time and without too much investment of money and time in their production.

Reply 91 of 406, by ElectroSoldier

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Is not being able to make youtube your main source of income a failure?

As soon as The8bitguy went full time his channel went down hill.
There are other channels that arent as good as they were before they realised they could make money out of it.

Reply 92 of 406, by axi0m

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Lots of good points made in this thread. I haven't been paying much attention to any of the major retro computing channels in recent years, unless there was a particular topic of interest to me. I can appreciate all the work that is being done, but when a hobby turns into a job, focus will shift eventually and there'll always be a risk that the passion behind it all becomes overshadowed. It must be a struggle to keep on going, especially if you're accustomed to a certain level of attention.

I mostly watch smaller channels these days, like MikeTech for example. I've had a grand time whenever watching his videos, and I think his passion really shines. I genuinely feel his surprise and excitement through the screen, whenever he opens up yet another system, to discover some odd feature, or unexpected component, almost like he's unearthing an ancient artifact, to find something marvellous within. Even though the format for every video is pretty much the same, seeing that spark of joy, kindled by true dedication, never gets old.

Last edited by axi0m on 2024-01-07, 01:01. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 93 of 406, by Ensign Nemo

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ThinkpadIL wrote on 2024-01-06, 20:36:
ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-01-06, 19:46:

The 8bit guy shot himself in the foot when he decided to do youtube full time.
As soon as he made the video about it the amount of videos he made dropped in a month, and what he was making them about changed enough so as to be not as interesting any more.
The last few I watched were about him making his own computer, which isnt interesting to me.

Yes, it seems that many of top youtubers in the niche segments like vintage computing saw in youtubing easy money and some of them decided to make youtubing their full time job.

The reason why I made this topic is that in my view if top youtubers like The 8-Bit Guy and LGR will fail (and signs of their possible failure are seen already with a naked eye) this may demoralize other youtubers who may see a professional level vintage computing youtubing as a waste of time and in the end will stay only pure enthusiasts who will make videos from time to time and without too much investment of money and time in their production.

Doing YouTube as a full-time job seems really risky to me, unless you're able to bring in enough money to put a lot in your savings. YouTube can end your source of income on a whim, which can happen for reasons out of your control (adpocalypse, false copyright or code of conduct strikes, etc.). Your also dependent on your viewers for money, but they could lose interest or the economy could take a bad turn. For someone like LGR, this could be especially bad because it seems like he has been doing YouTube as his job most of his adult life. I think it would be hard for him to find a good paying job elsewhere without typical work experience.

Reply 94 of 406, by Fujoshi-hime

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Ensign Nemo wrote on 2024-01-07, 00:56:

Doing YouTube as a full-time job seems really risky to me, unless you're able to bring in enough money to put a lot in your savings. YouTube can end your source of income on a whim, which can happen for reasons out of your control (adpocalypse, false copyright or code of conduct strikes, etc.). Your also dependent on your viewers for money, but they could lose interest or the economy could take a bad turn. For someone like LGR, this could be especially bad because it seems like he has been doing YouTube as his job most of his adult life. I think it would be hard for him to find a good paying job elsewhere without typical work experience.

I think this is a big part of it. YouTube initially was paying out well to creators, to draw them in, get them producing content, investing in infrastructure and equipment and such. The problem is, YouTube is like, not a good money maker, and now they're clawing in how much a creator can make per watch. So it's entering this shitty race to the bottom, to make it, you gotta have production value and make a lot of content, and in exchange they wanna give you less and less money for the work you're putting in.

Frankly, I'm thinking we'll eventually see some sorta horrible YouTube implosion, where it boils down to people willing to slave away less than minimum wage and to even make that work, they're gaming YouTube with plagiarism and nonsense just to keep their heads above water.

On the other hand I think some niche YouTubers are running out of content ideas. I mean, PhilsComputerLab is interesting, he used to make a lot of videos but I think he painted himself into a corner and ran out of 'Old Retro PCs To Build'. He's slowed things down and shifted the tone of the video to looking at aspects and approaches to retro gaming but I doubt he'll ever see that peak pace again.

It'd be nice if YouTubers could get away with making one good video per month or so, where they can focuse on production, research, filming, and all that, but YouTube itself won't reward that pace very well so then it has to be a 'hobby'.

All a shame really.

Reply 95 of 406, by dormcat

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My two cents: The 8-Bit Guy has invested too much resources -- time and money -- on his personal pseudo-retro projects like Planet X3 and Commander X16 recently.

You see, retro communities are based on common memories and knowledges on specific hardware / software, as well as friendships formed by sharing.

"There was a game I played in childhood that looked like such-and-such with features of this-and-that but I couldn't remember its name..."
"Ahh, that would be [game title]. BTW you can't play it on modern hardware; you have to acquire a retro build with [spec of the retro build] for the best result, or use an emulator with following settings..."

"I played [game title] on a retro build but if felt very different from my memory..."
"That game is picky on graphics cards. Try to use [another model] instead. Guess what? I have one not in use."

"There seems to be a conflict between my sound card and motherboard..."
"Update the driver to version x.xx would solve the issue. The official site is long gone but I have it uploaded:"

"I salvaged this from e-waste. After washing and recapping I fixed it to working state; if you want it lives longer, however, it would be better if you replace [part] with a modern equivalent. Furthermore, there's a small trick that few people know..."
"Wow, I had been using it for a decade between [year] and [year] yet I didn't know it could do that! Glad I still have it in the basement!"

Et cetera, et cetera.

Once he starts selling Planet X3 and Commander X16, however, he is no longer a KOL of the community, but a merchant selling self-designed pseudo-retro products that have to compete against zillions of other hardware / software in the modern market for attention and money of potential customers. No matter how retro they look, they are still new products that share very little with other community members. Example: while C64 is the most numerous single computer model ever in North America, it has virtually ZERO user in Taiwan (where every college boy in STEM major is expected to be capable of assembling a desktop computer on his own), even fewer than that of Z80-based computers. His C64 / Commander X16 videos have little attractiveness to me or my local friends.

And I'm still waiting for his episode 2 of Apple and Steve Jobs' Biggest Mistakes. 😅

Reply 96 of 406, by ThinkpadIL

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ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-01-06, 21:56:

Is not being able to make youtube your main source of income a failure?

As soon as The8bitguy went full time his channel went down hill.
There are other channels that arent as good as they were before they realised they could make money out of it.

It is a good question. What can be considered a failure?

I'm not a youtuber, never was and not planning to become one, so all what I say here comes from a viewer's perspective only.

First of all, who are those vintage computing youtubers? I recognize two major types - hobbyists and opportunists. Formers have a hobby, love it and have a desire to share it with others, and latters are those who have some knowledge and experience in IT field and they have a desire to monetize it where it is only possible. What unites them is availability of free time. Hobbyists have free time for their hobby and opportunists have free time for trying new things. And if they try themselves on Youtube, that means they have even more of free time, and that means that or they are retired, or they don't have a full time job.

After uploading few videos on Youtube, if their content is interesting they quickly realize that Youtube can give them a little more than few bucks for a beer, and more videos they produce, more they earn from Youtube. Within a quite short period of time they start seeing in their Youtube activity a clear potential for a regular income to live off. And here we come to the point where a youtuber has to decide whether he keeps it within a hobby margins or transforms it into a full time job. If youtuber is a retired person, it doesn't matter actually, but if he/she is not, it is a very serious decision with a very serious consequences. The thing is that Youtube with its reward policy actually pushes them to transform their part time activity into a full time job. And when other beginner youtubers see they manage to live off Youtube it encourages them to go the same way. Cause why not? It is a dream job!

So, if you are not a retired man or one who makes two-three videos a year as a hobby your success is measured by ability to live off youtubing as your full time job. And if you fail to do this, that means you failed. And your failure affects other youtubers who now will think twice before leaving their regular job. Which will of course affect a level of their activity on Youtube, cause as I understand it is a quite time consuming activity.

Bottom line is - or you produce just few videos a year, or you make it a full time job, and if you fail, it will discourage many others from doing so and consequently Youtube will become once again the place of pure hobbyists shooting their videos from time to time not caring much about their quality.

Reply 97 of 406, by ThinkpadIL

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dormcat wrote on 2024-01-07, 08:11:

And I'm still waiting for his episode 2 of Apple and Steve Jobs' Biggest Mistakes. 😅

Well, you've got a "David Murray's Biggest Mistakes" episode instead. 😄

Reply 98 of 406, by Trashbytes

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ThinkpadIL wrote on 2024-01-04, 22:27:
b0by007 wrote on 2024-01-04, 22:01:
I dont think is the end of the era of Retro Compting Youtube channels, in general. Maybe just for the big ones. It is a good thi […]
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I dont think is the end of the era of Retro Compting Youtube channels, in general. Maybe just for the big ones. It is a good thing there now are hundreds of retro computer channels. Competition is good.
The small ones are getting bigger.
Me, personally, I like just retro pc games and ibm pc compatibles, from ibm xt, at, 286, 386, 486.... I just dont like machintos, amiga, commodore etc.
I was following LGR and AdriansDigitalBasement and RetroSpector78 (what happened to him?). I really liked LGRs videos about retro games, about retro pcs and oddware. And Adrians Black PC Archeology series was very interesting with some 286, 386, 486...
But latley LGR is posting some crapy games (the sims and flash games) and Adrian Black is just plain boring with those landfield amigas and commodores. Just my opinion.
I follow now PhilsComputerLab, TheRetroRecall (this one got over 7k subscribers in 1 year), MikeTech and other small channels. Choice is very good!

Yes, it seems that future belongs to smaller Youtube channels of real hobbyists who really enjoy what they are doing and not just shooting videos on any topic in pursuit of higher revenues.

The smaller channels are where some of the more fun and interesting content is, they dont have to worry about pissing off the algorithm so are free to just try cool stuff with their content, the bigger channels get the more they become a slave to Youtube and how it forces content creators to monetize to survive.

I watch a good number of smaller content creators like Luumi, Necroware, Retro Hardware, Epitronics, Tony359, Ancient Electronics and Vswitchzero and they always have something interesting to watch even if they dont post every day or week. There are many more I watch but haven't listed here but you really have to force Youtube to list them otherwise you get garbage or stuff from LGR and 8-bit guy both of which I have watched in the past but neither of which currently do content I find entertaining. (Not sure why LGR keeps doing sims4 stuff)

Sometimes you gotta go down that Youtube rabbit hole to find the interesting stuff.

Just be careful down there lest you find yourself in the dark with a Grue.

Edit - If you like Vintage games I recently found a channel called "Retro Game Mechanics Explained" which has some really in depth stuff on there .. great channel for people with some programming knowledge. https://www.youtube.com/@RGMechEx

Reply 99 of 406, by ThinkpadIL

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Trashbytes wrote on 2024-01-07, 10:34:

Edit - If you like Vintage games I recently found a channel called "Retro Game Mechanics Explained" which has some really in depth stuff on there .. great channel for people with some programming knowledge. https://www.youtube.com/@RGMechEx

I'm not into gaming at all, but this channel is really interesting one because of showing how those games were actually designed.

And if speaking about games, back in the days I stumbled upon channel called Top Hat Gaming Man where I enjoyed his historical reviews of many different gaming consoles. Even though I'm not a gaming consoles fan at all I found it interesting just to watch videos about what kind of consoles ever existed and what is the history behind them.