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First post, by Jo22

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Hi everyone,

Just saw something fascinating that I'd like to share.
This page contains some examples of what you can do with a supposedly "inferior" analogue gameport.

https://www.ardent-tool.com/misc/Joystick_Metrics.html

While this topic isn't exactly new to me, I've found this article of old times very interesting.
You can do even more than the examples mentioned in that article (as it says itself).

(The original IBM Game Control Adapter had a provision for experiments, even.
There's a spare area on the PCB for the user's own projects.)

For example, you can read the digital buttons and have an PC-based alarm system.
Or build a model train railyway system with sensors. Reed relays (or other switches) and some wire is all it needs.

And Quick Basic 4.0+, if possible - STICK() or STRIG() support the game port directly.

Humble QBasic supports it, too, but at this point, the MS Game Shop is an alternative to consider.
Or, let's have a look at Power Basic and it's predecessor, Turbo Basic 1.0!
Visual Basic for DOS and PDS 7 are worth a look, too.

There's so much you can do! 🙂

For example, someone even wrote an SSTV software to decode tape recorded black/white pictures through it.
Another author had once built a b/w picture scanner, by using a matrix printer to move the scanner circuit (photodiode, pair of LEDs).

Tip: If your development PC is too fast, you can press the turbo button or use a throttle utility
- or go for a hardware mod and change the four 100 nF condensers on your game card by something bigger.

"Changing" isn't the right term, maybe, though.
You can add some extra condensers in parallel to the original ones, to increase capacity.

Doing the mod can also help with the time constant (tau).
By an enlargement of the capacitors, the measuring range can be increased, while simultaneously the resolution goes down a bit.
- That's good to know for owners of higher end PCs with V20/30 or 8086 processors.

Tip: You can use the gameport as an output, too!
Yup, it really works. It's a bit of cheating, though. And no, MIDI isn't being involved. 😉

If you're afraid of ruining your precious game port card, you may consider a a replica. Such things really exist.

Have fun! 😃

Best wishes,
Jo22

PS: If you're happen to be a Turbo Pascal fan, you're in luck.. 😀

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    JOYUNIT.ZIP
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    "This is a simple unit for including 'Basic like' joystick commands in your pascal programs" (Freeware/Public Domain, no author listed)
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    JOYSTK4.ZIP
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    TURBO PASCAL JOYSTICK ROUTINES v2 for Turbo Pascal 4, by David Howorth, '87 (Freeware or Public Domain)
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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 2 of 12, by doshea

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Yeah, that stuff was definitely popular in the DOS days, but if you had Windows 3.0 with Multimedia Extensions, or Windows 3.1, you could install the joystick driver, and then also read the joystick port from Visual Basic, Turbo Pascal for Windows, etc. I can provide more details on Visual Basic if anyone wants them.

Reply 3 of 12, by Jo22

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ThinkpadIL wrote on 2024-04-02, 19:58:

Very interesting topic. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks! ^^

doshea wrote on 2024-04-04, 07:44:

Yeah, that stuff was definitely popular in the DOS days, but if you had Windows 3.0 with Multimedia Extensions, or Windows 3.1, you could install the joystick driver, and then also read the joystick port from Visual Basic, Turbo Pascal for Windows, etc. I can provide more details on Visual Basic if anyone wants them.

Gladly! Go ahead! That'd be great, thanks! ^^

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 4 of 12, by doshea

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Jo22 wrote on 2024-04-06, 00:48:
doshea wrote on 2024-04-04, 07:44:

Yeah, that stuff was definitely popular in the DOS days, but if you had Windows 3.0 with Multimedia Extensions, or Windows 3.1, you could install the joystick driver, and then also read the joystick port from Visual Basic, Turbo Pascal for Windows, etc. I can provide more details on Visual Basic if anyone wants them.

Gladly! Go ahead! That'd be great, thanks! ^^

Here's some fairly boring information about how to call the API, without much detail (just lines and lines of API definitions for people with versions of VB that didn't include them): go to http://archive.shikadi.net/brisbug/, download Vol 8 No 11 (October 1993), it starts on page 32. There's no interesting description of cool stuff you can do with it, but some of the other issues might have that kind of information.

Reply 5 of 12, by Jo22

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doshea wrote on 2024-04-07, 06:42:

Here's some fairly boring information about how to call the API, without much detail (just lines and lines of API definitions for people with versions of VB that didn't include them): go to http://archive.shikadi.net/brisbug/, download Vol 8 No 11 (October 1993), it starts on page 32. There's no interesting description of cool stuff you can do with it, but some of the other issues might have that kind of information.

Thank you very much, I've just got the document! 🙂👍

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 6 of 12, by Pierre32

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I picked this up late last year, but haven't gotten to playing with it yet. It's a gameport oscilloscope interface, sold in kit form back in the day.

Discontinued listing: https://www.jaycar.com.au/front-end-pre-amp-f … -cards/p/KA1811

Manual available here with a login: https://www.vkham.com/resources/kits-manuals/ … ry/26-resources

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Reply 7 of 12, by VileR

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Nice!

Reminds me of a very old PC World article which pointed out some novel uses for the 5150's cassette port - controlling lights and equipment from the keyboard, keying it to a ham radio transmitter, timed triggering of appliances around your house, activating a burglar alarm if someone touches the PC... all with some simple PCBs (relay control, debouncer) and BASIC programs.

PC World on the Internet Archive is a mess, but it's in the December 1983 issue which can be found at https://vintageapple.org/pcworld/.

Who needs Bezos mining your data when you can get a 5150- or PCjr-powered "smart home"?

[ WEB ] - [ BLOG ] - [ TUBE ] - [ CODE ]

Reply 8 of 12, by doshea

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Pierre32 wrote on 2024-04-07, 08:32:

I picked this up late last year, but haven't gotten to playing with it yet. It's a gameport oscilloscope interface, sold in kit form back in the day.

Wow, nice! I notice JayCar and Dick Smith products that look very similar, were they both just putting their badge on stuff from overseas?

Reply 9 of 12, by Pierre32

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doshea wrote on 2024-04-07, 11:02:
Pierre32 wrote on 2024-04-07, 08:32:

I picked this up late last year, but haven't gotten to playing with it yet. It's a gameport oscilloscope interface, sold in kit form back in the day.

Wow, nice! I notice JayCar and Dick Smith products that look very similar, were they both just putting their badge on stuff from overseas?

I'm not sure where all the kits really began. I've seen suggestions that they were also sold through Maplin in the UK. It seems like Jaycar took over the product lines when Dick Smith stopped carrying hobby electronics - same kit numbers and all.

Reply 10 of 12, by Jo22

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Hi. Quick update. Found an interesting link. It's about the minimum/maximum range of the X/Y inputs.
https://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=21954

Not sure if it's helpful, but on my PC/XT compatible (4,77 MHz V20) the X/Y values are as followings:
Minimum: 2 Medium: 44 Maximum: 85 (PC SuperPad; uses D-Pad like a Gravis Gamepad)

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 11 of 12, by doshea

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Jo22 wrote on 2024-04-09, 22:44:

Hi. Quick update. Found an interesting link. It's about the minimum/maximum range of the X/Y inputs.
https://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=21954

Ouch, I hope that person just had a bad game port and handling wrapping around like that isn't something you really have to do - how do you know that the stick didn't just move quickly?!

Not sure if it's helpful, but on my PC/XT compatible (4,77 MHz V20) the X/Y values are as followings:
Minimum: 2 Medium: 44 Maximum: 85 (PC SuperPad; uses D-Pad like a Gravis Gamepad)

I think this is why you normally have to calibrate a joystick - this can probably differ between machines due to component tolerances, cables, etc.

Reply 12 of 12, by Jo22

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doshea wrote on 2024-04-10, 09:50:
Jo22 wrote on 2024-04-09, 22:44:

Not sure if it's helpful, but on my PC/XT compatible (4,77 MHz V20) the X/Y values are as followings:
Minimum: 2 Medium: 44 Maximum: 85 (PC SuperPad; uses D-Pad like a Gravis Gamepad)

I think this is why you normally have to calibrate a joystick - this can probably differ between machines due to component tolerances, cables, etc.

+1

I've mentioned the values because that SuperPad has fixed resistors rather than potentiometers.
So all SuperPads should be calibrated same way, if they're being built with same resistor types.

A PC compatible with NEC V20 @4,77 MHz also was being mentioned in an vintage electronics book that I have in my bookshelf.
It's about such experiments with gameport, parallel port and a custom PC card.

I think that modest setup makes sense for 1989, when the book was being written.
Even XT users had certain standards and welcomed the V20.

An 8088 also works, of course even and has a slightly bigger range of measuring..
Could well be that's the reason why the joystick/gameport values I measured aren't "pretty" values.

When IBM made the game port card, the capacitors surely had been chosen to make things look smooth on an 4,77 MHz 8088.

Edit: A picture of the gamepad/game controller can be seen here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/retrogaming/comments … ere_i_stumbled/

It's an SFC look-a-like, essentially. Except that the button pairs are wrong (pairs should be a/b, c/d).

Edit: The book also mentions a calibration plug, which is an interesting idea.
It has resistors with known values and can be used for calibration.
I'll have a look at it and write down the schematic/values..

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//