Try a later version of PC Geos such as Bread Box Ensenble 4.2. it is totally free tgo use software now thanks to the owners,who passed away,family

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-22, 07:40:

Try a later version of PC Geos such as Bread Box Ensenble 4.2. it is totally free tgo use software now thanks to the owners,who passed away,family

I've been looking around for Geos 4.2 but could not find a download link anyware. I did come across source files on github but I don't have either the tools or knowledge to compile a program from source....

[EDIT] never mind I'm a dumbass. I found it.

I would however like to get GeOS 2.0 going. Is it possible it doesn't like FAT32 partitions? Or dos 7? Or I have too much ram? The software does warn about having FILES=30 and BUFFERS=30 in config.sis. I added them and even tried booting in command prompt only with only those two options listed, but to no avail...

PC GEOS is very finicky about DOS and hardware, I think.
It's from the 286/386/486 days (pre Pentium) of PCs.

Older releases even included a patch to make it compatible with DOS 6.0.

I believe you can try installing it in PCE or PCem/86Box (286-486 machines) first,
then copy it over to your modern retro PC.

Good luck! 🙂

Jo22 wrote on 2022-11-22, 19:39:

PC GEOS is very finicky about DOS and hardware, I think. It's from the 286/386/486 days (pre Pentium) of PCs. […]
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PC GEOS is very finicky about DOS and hardware, I think.
It's from the 286/386/486 days (pre Pentium) of PCs.

Older releases even included a patch to make it compatible with DOS 6.0.

I believe you can try installing it in PCE or PCem/86Box (286-486 machines) first,
then copy it over to your modern retro PC.

Good luck! 🙂

Correct. The very reason I suggested BBE. Files=50 would be a good start as well.

You can set BBE to use the the Motif GUI and it opparates just like GEOWorks 2.0

Any luck?

I wonder the same - any progress? 🙁

Btw, please don't worry about PC GEOS 2.0.
- It's pretty useless nowadays, anyway.

Programs written in New Basic (a Visual Basic replica) need PC GEOS 3/4.

For other applications, PC GEOS 2.01 is needed - and there was no free update from 2.0 to 2.01, afaik.

Jo22 wrote on 2022-11-26, 07:57:

I wonder the same - any progress? 🙁 […]
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I wonder the same - any progress? 🙁

Btw, please don't worry about PC GEOS 2.0.
- It's pretty useless nowadays, anyway.

Programs written in New Basic (a Visual Basic replica) need PC GEOS 3/4.

For other applications, PC GEOS 2.01 is needed - and there was no free update from 2.0 to 2.01, afaik.

Yes there was.

Some handy tips- http://www.geos-infobase.de/ND_DOCS/276.HTM

All you ever wanted to know about PC Geos but were too lazy to search for it- http://www.faqs.org/faqs/pcgeos-faq/part1/

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-26, 09:10:

Jo22 wrote on 2022-11-26, 07:57:

I wonder the same - any progress? 🙁 […]
Show full quote

I wonder the same - any progress? 🙁

Btw, please don't worry about PC GEOS 2.0.
- It's pretty useless nowadays, anyway.

Programs written in New Basic (a Visual Basic replica) need PC GEOS 3/4.

For other applications, PC GEOS 2.01 is needed - and there was no free update from 2.0 to 2.01, afaik.

Yes there was.

Really? There was an update?! Cool. 😁 - I've got an old copy of v2.0, too.. But it's localized.
Speaking of.. I wonder, maybe that's why the OP wants to use this ancient version ?

Later versions weren't easily available in anything other than English.
I mean, sure, via E-Mail.. But that was in the early 2000s.
The last, free version hasn't been localized to, say, French/Italian/German/Spanish?

Jo22 wrote on 2022-11-26, 13:06:

Really? There was an update?! Cool. :D - I've got an old copy of v2.0, too.. But it's localized. Speaking of.. I wonder, maybe t […]
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MarkP wrote on 2022-11-26, 09:10:

Jo22 wrote on 2022-11-26, 07:57:

I wonder the same - any progress? 🙁 […]
Show full quote

I wonder the same - any progress? 🙁

Btw, please don't worry about PC GEOS 2.0.
- It's pretty useless nowadays, anyway.

Programs written in New Basic (a Visual Basic replica) need PC GEOS 3/4.

For other applications, PC GEOS 2.01 is needed - and there was no free update from 2.0 to 2.01, afaik.

Yes there was.

Really? There was an update?! Cool. 😁 - I've got an old copy of v2.0, too.. But it's localized.
Speaking of.. I wonder, maybe that's why the OP wants to use this ancient version ?

Later versions weren't easily available in anything other than English.
I mean, sure, via E-Mail.. But that was in the early 2000s.
The last, free version hasn't been localized to, say, French/Italian/German/Spanish?

Well the source code is now available so hop to it....

The GeoWorks Ensemble 2.01 update was just like the MS Windows 3.1 to 3.11 up. A few core files updated to make it more stable. If software runs on GeoWorks Ensemble 2.01 will in fact run on GeoWorks Ensenble 2.0 just fine. I've done it.

I'm guessing that is a no for an English version of MS Windows 3.2 then ah?

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-25, 05:07:

Any luck?

nope... kind of gave up on getting it to run on my Compaq Deskpro 2000.... I am going to get my 286 build out of storage at one point since I sourced a really nice case for it - transfer it into it's new case and have a go at running GEOS on that. I think it doesn't like dos 7. My 286 is running dos 6.22. If that fails I can try on my XT wich runs dos 5

Socket3 wrote on 2023-01-06, 11:54:

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-25, 05:07:

Any luck?

nope... kind of gave up on getting it to run on my Compaq Deskpro 2000.... I am going to get my 286 build out of storage at one point since I sourced a really nice case for it - transfer it into it's new case and have a go at running GEOS on that. I think it doesn't like dos 7. My 286 is running dos 6.22. If that fails I can try on my XT wich runs dos 5

PC/AT with 286-486 is fine (max 66 MHz). PC/XT works, but isn't recommended.
It once was fine for Geoworks Pro /Geoworks Ensemble 1.x, maybe, but GEOS 2+ uses a new code base.

"NewDeal software and your XT machine

We're sorry but...
Because of all the new powerful features in the latest versions of NewDeal software
we were forced to remove the XT class of machines from our supported hardware list.

NewDeal software was tested in-house on XT machines.
We were able to run the programs, but found that the speed and performance was unacceptable.

If you have an 8086 or 8088 machine, you will probably not be satisfied with the performance,
unless your computer is equipped with a memory expansion board containing
a megabyte or more of expanded memory. Even then, performance will be slow. "

Source: http://www.geos-infobase.de/ND_DOCS/238.HTM

It was written for NewDeal, but I think that's true for all GEOS releases, likely.
Though with a NEC V20/V30 CPU we're quite close to 286 territory, also.
A software that expects a 286 and doesn't do much checking will run fine.

So it really depends on the situation, I think.
A Turbo XT at 8 MHz with a NEC CPU can pass as a slow PC/AT,
depending on the memory timings, waistates etc.

PS: GEOS runs in Real-Mode all the time, unlike Windows 3.x.
That's why it can run on top of OSes like OS/2, too.

Jo22 wrote on 2023-01-07, 04:32:

PC/AT with 286-486 is fine (max 66 MHz). PC/XT works, but isn't recommended. It once was fine for Geoworks Pro /Geoworks Ensemb […]
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Socket3 wrote on 2023-01-06, 11:54:

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-25, 05:07:

Any luck?

nope... kind of gave up on getting it to run on my Compaq Deskpro 2000.... I am going to get my 286 build out of storage at one point since I sourced a really nice case for it - transfer it into it's new case and have a go at running GEOS on that. I think it doesn't like dos 7. My 286 is running dos 6.22. If that fails I can try on my XT wich runs dos 5

PC/AT with 286-486 is fine (max 66 MHz). PC/XT works, but isn't recommended.
It once was fine for Geoworks Pro /Geoworks Ensemble 1.x, maybe, but GEOS 2+ uses a new code base.

"NewDeal software and your XT machine

We're sorry but...
Because of all the new powerful features in the latest versions of NewDeal software
we were forced to remove the XT class of machines from our supported hardware list.

NewDeal software was tested in-house on XT machines.
We were able to run the programs, but found that the speed and performance was unacceptable.

If you have an 8086 or 8088 machine, you will probably not be satisfied with the performance,
unless your computer is equipped with a memory expansion board containing
a megabyte or more of expanded memory. Even then, performance will be slow. "

Source: http://www.geos-infobase.de/ND_DOCS/238.HTM

It was written for NewDeal, but I think that's true for all GEOS releases, likely.
Though with a NEC V20/V30 CPU we're quite close to 286 territory, also.
A software that expects a 286 and doesn't do much checking will run fine.

So it really depends on the situation, I think.
A Turbo XT at 8 MHz with a NEC CPU can pass as a slow PC/AT,
depending on the memory timings, waistates etc.

PS: GEOS runs in Real-Mode all the time, unlike Windows 3.x.
That's why it can run on top of OSes like OS/2, too.

My XT is a Hyundai Super-16 running an 8MHz Siemens 8088 CPU. I have a V20 and some oddball 10MHz siemens (SAB8088-1-P) but when I installed them in my hyundai they both ran at 4.77/8MHz. I figured I'd need to replace a crystal oscillator on the motherboard to get them to run at 10Mhz, but I know very little about the super-16, and it might not like 10MHz so decided to leave it as it is. The PC also has 640k of ram, and I'm not sure that's enough for GeOS, so I guess the XT is out.

Socket3 wrote on 2023-01-07, 15:34:

My XT is a Hyundai Super-16 running an 8MHz Siemens 8088 CPU. I have a V20 and some oddball 10MHz siemens (SAB8088-1-P) but when […]
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My XT is a Hyundai Super-16 running an 8MHz Siemens 8088 CPU.
I have a V20 and some oddball 10MHz siemens (SAB8088-1-P) but when I installed them in my hyundai they both ran at 4.77/8MHz.
I figured I'd need to replace a crystal oscillator on the motherboard to get them to run at 10Mhz,
but I know very little about the super-16, and it might not like 10MHz so decided to leave it as it is.
The PC also has 640k of ram, and I'm not sure that's enough for GeOS, so I guess the XT is out.

Hi there! Your XT is fine, I think. And I think it will handle GEOS, too.
GEOS merely uses 8086 Real-Mode instructions, if I understand correctly. The 2 MHz difference doesn't matter much.
If you install a NEC chip, then you can run almost all programs that use 80186/80286 instructions (except Protected Mode).
That means that GEOS will still run, even if the bar for the minimum requirements was raised a bit in later versions.

Anyway, if you really want to use GEOS for something meaningful - for browsing the web, writing stories with the word processor, drawing etc.
Then it's highly recomment to get a little EMS card. There's the Lo-Tech card with 2 MB, for example, for less than 100 USD.
With a bit of extra RAM to work with, GEOS will run fine on your XT. You could even run it in Super VGA on the XT.

Normally, the VESA VBE 1.x drivers for ISA VGA cards are all 16-Bit Real-Mode (they work on my 286, VBE 1.x provides a Real-Mode BIOS interface).
So even if the built-in GEOS drivers for Super VGA cards fail, the VBE options in the "device manager" could still work.
All you need is a VBE BIOS. It can be installed from DOS in the form of a TSR:
Re: OAK OTI-037c - 800x600 mode ?

Of course, Hercules and CGA, work as well. Use what you like. ^^

That being said, I'm just a beginner when it comes to GEOS.
User MarkP knows much more about it, I think. I didn't knew about these GEOS links before, for example.

PS: You can use SmartDrive (/X parameter; read-cache only) or DoubleSpace/DriveSpace just fine on an XT.
I did try this myself with an XT+MFM HDD. The CPU overhead is there, but less bad than the usual performance impact by the slow HDD.

In fact, the compression/decompression causes less i/o transfers to the HDD, because data is more compact.
The data is also stored in a little but more intelligent way, I think. The actuactor movement might be decreased that way.

Here's a video for comparison. There are no noticable wait times if you launch a program or read a file.
It works the same as if no compression was used. MS-DOS 6.2x is really neat here.
Just needs special defragmention sometimes (dblspace /defragment or something).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XxOtHodSBU

Speaking of.. GEOS can officially work with MS-DOS 6. There's a patch file installed by the setup program.
It should work the same with MS-DOS 6.2x, thus. DOS 6.2x merely had an updated set of utilities and drivers.
The kernals of MS-DOS 6.0 and 6.2x are identical, as far as I know. Even DOS 5 is very very similar to them.