Norton Commander wrote on 2023-11-06, 17:36:

Certain versions of Trumpet also supported DHCP.

3.0 still supports only static and BOOTP.
I recall some other issues with 3.0, forcing me to downgrade to 2.x.

On a side note is there any way to determine what your current IP address is with WFW? There isn't any ipcfg.exe type utility.

IPCONFIG.EXE

I think ipconfig works on all windows versions at the command line.

ipconfig /all for more info.

There's also netstat utility. Though it's more useful to display open connections.

Jo22 wrote on 2023-11-05, 23:26:

Still, I *believe* there was a TCP/IP stack for WfW 3.10 at some point. Not sure if it was publicly available, though.

Worth mentioning that IE 3.x for Windows 3.1 included a TCP/IP stack with wizard-based, Windows 95-style configuration so it was a bit easier to use than Trumpet (and free). The problem is that it was dial-up only (no ethernet cards), so it's fallen into obscurity.

Jo22 wrote on 2023-11-06, 12:47:

Some implementations of Samba require manual configuration to allow SMB below SMB3 or SMB2.

Samba is throwing out more and more of the legacy protocols with each release. The most recent version probably won't work anymore.

But this was very helpful for me on a Raspberry Pi with Debian 11 (Samba 4.13):

https://gist.github.com/tinue/9d9ce9c09e9e771 … 9b27f6d0e859c4e

I can connect to my NAS on Win95 up to Windows 11 with this setup. Haven't tested 3.11, might work, too.

Weirdly, this worked fine with Samba 4.13 but it was an annoyance with Samba 4.12, because 98SE hung for a long time every time I tried to access a directory (as I've also commented on Github).

Probably getting a bit off-topic, but I have 2 old NAS's but they only allow connections from certain OS's. I don't know what OS they run.

Landisk-193A ancient NAS with 80GB drive - can connect to all Windows except WFW.

Noontec with 1TB drive - can connect to W2K and newer. The original OS was riddled with bugs so I upgraded (which fixed the bugs) but didn't help with connections.

Any ideas what's needed to allow these NAS's to connect to WFW? I don't know anything about SMB.

In the meantime, I've installed WS-FTP-LE* to get around the problem until a proper solution can be found.

*WS-FTP-LE is a freebie from the official site.

In case anyone is interested in taking a look at an earlier version, at one point I ran across an "A" version of the Windows for Workgroups 3.11 32-bit TCP/IP stack. It's on disc 2 of https://archive.org/details/CICA_Ultimate_Col … reek_March_1996, in disc2/winsock/tcp32.zip. I suppose there is a small chance that it includes something which was removed in the "B" version.

Robbbert wrote on 2023-11-08, 04:28:

Probably getting a bit off-topic, but I have 2 old NAS's but they only allow connections from certain OS's. I don't know what OS […]
Show full quote

Probably getting a bit off-topic, but I have 2 old NAS's but they only allow connections from certain OS's. I don't know what OS they run.

Landisk-193A ancient NAS with 80GB drive - can connect to all Windows except WFW.

Noontec with 1TB drive - can connect to W2K and newer. The original OS was riddled with bugs so I upgraded (which fixed the bugs) but didn't help with connections.

Any ideas what's needed to allow these NAS's to connect to WFW? I don't know anything about SMB.

In the meantime, I've installed WS-FTP-LE* to get around the problem until a proper solution can be found.

*WS-FTP-LE is a freebie from the official site.

You need to enable SMB v1 on your NAS. But beware! SMB v1 is buggy and open as hell and is a big security risk!
I have Debian VM on my modern machine for that. It mounts shares from NAS over modern SMB and then re-shares them out over SMB v1. My retro machines then connect to my VM instead of directly to NAS. And when i'm done with my retro activities, i shut down the Debian VM.

Grzyb wrote on 2023-11-06, 13:09:

I use Samba 4.7.1 - indeed, several years old already.
Note to self to be cautious when upgrading - this version seems to perfectly cooperate with all Windowses, from WFW 3.11 to 11 (10.0.22621.2428).

Just did clean install of Windows 11 (10.0.26100.1742) - and indeed, by default it can't see my Samba server anymore 😜
I was still able to get it working using the following PowerShell command:

Set-SmbClientConfiguration -RequireSecuritySignature $false

(INSECURE AND HIGHLY DISCOURAGED!)

So, I still have a Samba setup which works with almost anything: Microsoft Network Client version 3.0 for MS-DOS, Windows for Workgroups 3.11, up to the most modern clients - but it gets more and more difficult...

Grzyb wrote on 2023-11-05, 23:35:

Jo22 wrote on 2023-11-05, 23:26:

Still, I *believe* there was a TCP/IP stack for WfW 3.10 at some point. Not sure if it was publicly available, though.

From Microsoft? Never see any...

Of course, there were third-party products for Windows 3.1, also compatible with the WFW variant, the most popular being Trumpet Winsock.

It was just called "TCP/IP for Microsoft Windows for Workgroups".
An evidence can be found here in this MS Knowledge Base article:
https://www.betaarchive.com/wiki/index.php?ti … _Archive/108693

Windows for Workgroups 3.10 was very rare, that being said.
We have a localized copy at home from back of the day, but I've never seen one for sale on eBay.

Afaik, the only positive aspect of it is that it supports 80286 PCs as workstations (not as servers, though).
So you can use existing services on network, but not share your own folders or printer with others.
Network software also is permanently loaded, even if no network adapter is installed.

Edit:

Grzyb wrote on 2024-11-30, 11:47:

So, I still have a Samba setup which works with almost anything: Microsoft Network Client version 3.0 for MS-DOS, Windows for Workgroups 3.11, up to the most modern clients - but it gets more and more difficult...

There's also a Workgroup add-on for DOS, I think. 😉
It's "Microsoft Workgroup Add-On for MS-DOS" and pre-dates "Microsoft Network Client 3.0".

Jo22 wrote on 2024-12-02, 12:17:

It was just called "TCP/IP for Microsoft Windows for Workgroups".
An evidence can be found here in this MS Knowledge Base article:
https://www.betaarchive.com/wiki/index.php?ti … _Archive/108693

Fascinating...
Looks like something different than "MICROSOFT(R) TCP/IP-32 FOR WINDOWS(TM) FOR WORKGROUPS 3.11".
I hope that some day somebody finds it...

There's also a Workgroup add-on for DOS, I think. 😉
It's "Microsoft Workgroup Add-On for MS-DOS" and pre-dates "Microsoft Network Client 3.0".

But does it support TCP/IP ?

It's impossible to connect to Samba from WfW 3.1, because the former doesn't support NetBEUI or IPX, and the latter doesn't support TCP/IP, at least until somebody finds that mysterious "TCP/IP for Microsoft Windows for Workgroups".

BTW, I also tried Samba with Microsoft LAN Manager version 2.2c for MS-DOS (also called Microsoft Network Client version 2.2c) - it did work, but there were some issues.
Microsoft Network Client version 3.0 for MS-DOS, however, works fine, and even its enormous memory usage is not a problem when using DOS-extender software.

Samba server with gigabytes of MP3/FLAC/WAV files + DOS client with Mpxplay = AWESOME JUKEBOX!

In theory I believe that the TCPIP stack from the MS Net Client 3.0 could be used with wfw 3.1 by manually loading it in the config.sys/autoexec.bat and configuring protocol.ini appropriately. I have done this with win3.11 on a 286 and it works for me, but I have not yet tried wfw3.1

maxtherabbit wrote on 2024-12-02, 15:29:

In theory I believe that the TCPIP stack from the MS Net Client 3.0 could be used with wfw 3.1 by manually loading it in the config.sys/autoexec.bat and configuring protocol.ini appropriately. I have done this with win3.11 on a 286 and it works for me, but I have not yet tried wfw3.1

I'm not sure what you mean...
Windows 1.0..ME is just yet another DOS program - if there's a network client running at DOS level, then any version of Windows can access remote drives.
Windows 3.0 adds tools to login/logout, map/unmap drives, etc.

Can you do anything more with that Windows 3.11 on a 286 ?

Windows (not for workgroups) 3.11 can login/logout and map/unmap from inside the GUI with the DOS client setup

Well, the whole idea of having networking setup in windows is to basically multiplex same network hardware and connection between different running processes. Having DOS-based network means you have a single capability running at one single time. Windows does another level of abstraction so you can for example browse the web and chat in MIRC at the same time.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2024-12-02, 18:06:

Windows (not for workgroups) 3.11 can login/logout and map/unmap from inside the GUI with the DOS client setup

That's already available in Windows 3.0 - just run SETUP.EXE, and select your network:

GigAHerZ wrote on 2024-12-02, 20:44:

Well, the whole idea of having networking setup in windows is to basically multiplex same network hardware and connection between different running processes. Having DOS-based network means you have a single capability running at one single time. Windows does another level of abstraction so you can for example browse the web and chat in MIRC at the same time.

That's already available in plain Windows 3.1 with some third-party TCP/IP stack - eg. Trumpet Winsock.
WfW 3.1 allows for something else: peer-to-peer file and printer sharing - any computer can be a client and a server at the same time.

That reminds me abaud something! When working with others, it's recommended to have SHARE running on DOS (or VSHARE on WfW 3.11).
It coordinates simultanous access to same set of files by multiple users and applications. Without it, files can end up being blank.

I had such an issue with Linux and a Windows PC, were I've left a document in notepad open and saved changes on other machine. I'm such a fool sometimes.. 😅

Grzyb wrote on 2024-12-02, 21:45:

maxtherabbit wrote on 2024-12-02, 18:06:

Windows (not for workgroups) 3.11 can login/logout and map/unmap from inside the GUI with the DOS client setup

That's already available in Windows 3.0 - just run SETUP.EXE, and select your network:

The attachment setup_000.png is no longer available

So what? Win3.0 sucks and I don't really understand the point you're trying to make.

I thought this all goes back to wanting to find the mystical "TCP/IP for Microsoft Windows for Workgroups". Which, if found, would do the exact same things...

If you feed wfw3.1 a NDIS2 based protocol stack with TCP you will get the features of wfw3.1 on a TCP network. Just like when you do the same with win3.11, you get the features (and limitations) of win3.11 on a TCP network

Hi, found a few more MS KBs to WfW 3.10..

https://www.betaarchive.com/wiki/index.php/Mi … _Archive/100652

https://ftp.zx.net.nz/pub/Patches/ftp.microso … -us/100/652.HTM

https://ftp.zx.net.nz/pub/archive/ftp.microso … -us/126/746.HTM

That TCP/IP diskette might also been called "Microsoft Windows for Workgroups Connectivity Diskette".