Tetrium wrote:

Didn't the unofficial 98SE SP2.1a already add support for USB mass storage? Or was it compressed (zip) files?
And somewhat related, the final 2.x Dutch unofficial SP was 2.0a or something (a very little behind the English one).

I'm pretty sure UOSP 2.1a doesn't have the USB mass storage drivers in it. If somebody can confirm that it does, I'll remove the section advising the separate installation.

Tetrium wrote:

And in general giving your opinion is perfectly fine, but (as already pointed out by leileilol) I would also like to know why it's such a great idea.

Which part needs clarification? I added some commentary, but perhaps I missed something that needs to be filled in.

Tetrium wrote:

Question about the partitioning: I made it a habit to use several partitions and keep Windows on its own partition (this is good in case I were to need to reinstall Windows (wouldn't loose any savegames etc) and it helps keeping the Windows partition unfragmented).

I often use multiple partitions too for the very same reasons you mention. I was just trying to keep this guide simple, so I advised creation of a single, primary, active partition. Advanced partitioning could be an entire guide unto itself. The same goes for multi-boot managers, which I also use.

KT7AGuy wrote:

Which part needs clarification? I added some commentary, but perhaps I missed something that needs to be filled in.

My apologies. It was meant to be more of a generic thingy. It gives people who read any guide the option to choose as well as being informed 😀

There are several foreign language versions of the 2.x unofficial SP for 98SE, but some links may be broken and it's generally a good idea to read first before actually installing the SP on a fresh install.

Main page is here and a more recent Dutch version of the 2.x unofficial SP can be gotten from tweakers.net

I think you made a great effort and mistakes and oversights are made within the blink of an eye. I know as actually writing a full and complete guide about WinME was harder then one might think 😜

Tetrium wrote:

My apologies. It was meant to be more of a generic thingy. It gives people who read any guide the option to choose as well as being informed 😀

No need to apologize. I value your opinion. I'm going to keep working on this to improve it. I welcome your suggestions and assistance in making it better. Please let me know what you think should be changed.

I have confirmed that UOSP 2.1a had the USB mass storage drivers included at one time. However, they were removed from the package in v2.0 RC2. I don't know what the status of the Dutch version is. (You can tell I'm an American because I only speak one language. 😵 )

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/30818-new-fea … -of-version-20/

Tetrium wrote:

it's generally a good idea to read first before actually installing the SP on a fresh install.

I agree 100%. Absolutely.

I also assume that folks reading my guide will know basic things like partitioning and DOS commands. I'm not going to get that detailed. This hobby does have a learning curve and my guide is not a "For Dummies" book.

Tetrium wrote:

I think you made a great effort and mistakes and oversights are made within the blink of an eye.

Please do continue to give me criticism. I'll fix and improve what I can. However, I'm not going to get too terribly detailed. When I say something like "create a directory", I gotta assume that people reading my guide know what a directory is and what the md command does.

Tetrium wrote:

I know as actually writing a full and complete guide about WinME was harder then one might think 😜

I'm trying not to bite off more than I can chew. I really meant for this to be just a simple guide.

Have you ever seen Koroush Ghazi's stuff? Incredibly thorough and highly detailed. I can't believe he gives it away for free.

http://www.tweakguides.com/TGTC.html

It's too bad he doesn't have a Win9x guide.

KT7AGuy wrote:

I'm pretty sure UOSP 2.1a doesn't have the USB mass storage drivers in it. If somebody can confirm that it does, I'll remove the section advising the separate installation.

No, it doesn't. However, the Unofficial Service Pack 3.x and later versions do. Please just note that it must be installed (run) separately (the file is called "USBSTACK.EXE") and doesn't form part of the installation process.
What I prefer to do is to install the Unofficial Service Pack 2.1a and then just extract the USBSTACK.EXE file from the later Unofficial Service Pack version, run the file and reboot. No funny workarounds or anything like that.
The reason is that I've had mixed results with the USB Mass Storage Drivers (nusb33e.exe), but since I've mostly run on VIA based motherboards, it could also be related to the USB patch that you referred to in your guide (and that I haven't installed in the past).

KT7AGuy wrote:

Tetrium wrote:

Question about the partitioning: I made it a habit to use several partitions and keep Windows on its own partition (this is good in case I were to need to reinstall Windows (wouldn't loose any savegames etc) and it helps keeping the Windows partition unfragmented).

I often use multiple partitions too for the very same reasons you mention. I was just trying to keep this guide simple, so I advised creation of a single, primary, active partition. Advanced partitioning could be an entire guide unto itself. The same goes for multi-boot managers, which I also use.

To simplify, for those people who would like to able to run MS-DOS based games/applications, you can just set up a multiple start up (boot) menu on the same partition - I typed out a little guide a while ago: How to create a boot (start up) menu under Windows 9x/ME

Tetrium wrote:

Or was it compressed (zip) files?

That's a component of 98 Plus!, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not terribly fond of that feature. Much more straightforward just to deal with a separate archiver.

Jorpho wrote:

Tetrium wrote:

Or was it compressed (zip) files?

That's a component of 98 Plus!, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not terribly fond of that feature. Much more straightforward just to deal with a separate archiver.

Cheers 😀

I might have used an old version of Winzip or Winrar at the time, but I can't remember. But to me having USB was more important anyway due to being able to use my USB ZIP drive to copy all necessary files right away.
I actually preferred to have it integrated within Windows, like ME and XP.

Very nice guide! I wish something like this existed when I built my Win98SE system. 😀

If you install without ACPI - will you have to manually turn off your computer with the power button every time?

dr_st wrote:

Very nice guide! I wish something like this existed when I built my Win98SE system. 😀

If you install without ACPI - will you have to manually turn off your computer with the power button every time?

Not when using an ATX board I think?
Iirc there was some power shutdown bug in 98SE (which annoyed me btw) but I was mostly using ME anyway.

dr_st wrote:

If you install without ACPI - will you have to manually turn off your computer with the power button every time?

Of course, i always install with acpi. If your computer hangs you could always restart in ms-dos mode and then turn it off manually.

An update:

SumatraPDF v1.2 will install under Win98SE, but will not run.

SumatraPDF v0.81 appears to be the last version that will actually run under Win98SE without heavy modification. This version is very basic, but might still be good for reading comic books (*.cbr, *.cbz) under Win9x. But... why bother? Who builds a legacy machine for reading comics? I'm removing it from the guide.

Foxit Reader is the better choice, but does not correctly interface with some period-correct CDROM-based manuals in PDF format. For example, some Jane's EA titles. Specifically, Jane's F-15. Others may be affected as well. I'm updating my guide accordingly.

(Personally, I'm coming to the conclusion that having both Acrobat v5.x and Foxit Reader installed is the best idea. Send your PDF docs to the appropriate reader as needed, on a case-by-case basis.)

Thanks

KT7AGuy wrote:

Basic Generic Win98SE Setup Instructions <snip> […]
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Basic Generic Win98SE Setup Instructions
<snip>

Copy the source files to the hard drive before installing Windows. This saves you from having to fish out your Win98SE CDROM each time the system needs to access something on it. Doing this makes things easier and more convenient, but will consume some hard drive space.
Create a "C:\Win98CD" directory.
Copy the entire contents of your Win98SE disc to "C:\Win98CD".
Remove the CDROM and boot with the Win98SE Boot Disk.

If you're using a Windows 98SE Upgrade CD instead of the full version, use a full version of Windows 95 or 98 as the base system, not MS-DOS 6.2 or earlier, as some of the upgraded Win9x MS-DOS tools are not included with the Windows 98SE Upgrade version and you'll be stuck with the old ones.

Videocard: install the latest stable drivers for your videocard of choice.

A note about DirectX: Win98SE includes DX6 preinstalled. If you have a DX8 video card, then install DX 8.1B (DX81eng.exe). The f […]
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A note about DirectX:
Win98SE includes DX6 preinstalled.
If you have a DX8 video card, then install DX 8.1B (DX81eng.exe).
The final version of DirectX 9.0c for Win98SE is dated 08 Dec 2006 (directx_dec2006_redist.exe).
http://falconfly.de/directx.htm

There is no reason not to install the latest version of DirectX 9.0c on any system, unless you have a game that is dependent on a specific older version and that won't work properly under DX 9.0c.

Also, IIRC, DirectX 5 (or was it 6?) tends to happily install itself over later versions of DirectX. If you have a game using that version of Direct X and you can't install the game without also installing DirectX, first install that game, and then the latest version of DirectX.

Adjust virtual memory & swap file appropriately. Lately I've been setting it to 128mb, but going as low as 64mb is probably fine too. If you're running 512mb RAM with Win98SE and the system is swapping at all, then the size of the swapfile isn't the problem.

I use the old, old Win 3.x trick of setting the swap file to 2.5 times the RAM size, on the fastest physical drive of course.

Verify that DMA is enabled for the Hard Drive and Optical Drives.

If this keeps getting reset to "disabled" after a crash, that may indicate a power issue...

Flash v9r280 (flashplayer9r280_win.exe) […]
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Flash v9r280 (flashplayer9r280_win.exe)

Flash for ActiveX v9r280 (flashplayer9r280_winax.exe)

Shockwave v10.3.0.24 (Shockwave_Installer_Full_10.3.0.24.exe)

Sun Java v1.4.2_19 (j2re-1_4_2_19-windows-i586-p.exe)
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase … .4.2_19-oth-JPR

Don't install these if you don't need them or plan to use the machine to browse the web a lot. They are resource hogs and are full of dangerous security holes.

Atomic Clock Sync v2.7.0.3 (atomic.exe)
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/system_tool … nc.cfm/v2_7_0_3
Sync your system clock. This is great for when your CMOS battery is dying and keeps losing time.

It's better to simply replace the battery, as the BIOS will also lose other more important settings on some systems when the battery is dying.

yawetaG wrote:

If you're using a Windows 98SE Upgrade CD instead of the full version, use a full version of Windows 95 or 98 as the base system, not MS-DOS 6.2 or earlier, as some of the upgraded Win9x MS-DOS tools are not included with the Windows 98SE Upgrade version and you'll be stuck with the old ones.

Which ones?

Jorpho wrote:

yawetaG wrote:

If you're using a Windows 98SE Upgrade CD instead of the full version, use a full version of Windows 95 or 98 as the base system, not MS-DOS 6.2 or earlier, as some of the upgraded Win9x MS-DOS tools are not included with the Windows 98SE Upgrade version and you'll be stuck with the old ones.

Which ones?

Important system tools like DOS Scandisk. 😵 Although I must mention that my Win98SE Upgrade CD is an Educational Discount version (which tend to miss any optional extras).

yawetaG wrote:

If you're using a Windows 98SE Upgrade CD instead of the full version, use a full version of Windows 95 or 98 as the base system, not MS-DOS 6.2 or earlier, as some of the upgraded Win9x MS-DOS tools are not included with the Windows 98SE Upgrade version and you'll be stuck with the old ones.

I agree 100%. I didn't think that anybody would want to use an upgrade version. Full versions of Win98SE are cheap and easy to find. There's just no good reason to even consider using an upgrade version.

yawetaG wrote:

There is no reason not to install the latest version of DirectX 9.0c on any system, unless you have a game that is dependent on a specific older version and that won't work properly under DX 9.0c.

You're right, but I still like to run DX8 with my GF4 and Voodoo cards.

yawetaG wrote:

I use the old, old Win 3.x trick of setting the swap file to 2.5 times the RAM size, on the fastest physical drive of course.

There's no reason to do that, unless it just makes you feel better. I'm the same way about DX8, as I wrote above. There's nothing wrong with either of our decisions, but they're based on feelings rather than logic.

yawetaG wrote:

Verify that DMA is enabled for the Hard Drive and Optical Drives.

If this keeps getting reset to "disabled" after a crash, that may indicate a power issue...

That's good to know. I'll add that to the guide. Thanks!

yawetaG wrote:

Don't install these if you don't need them or plan to use the machine to browse the web a lot. They are resource hogs and are full of dangerous security holes.

I agree 100%, but I don't think it really matters. My legacy Win9x machines aren't used for anything serious. Security isn't a concern for them. One could argue that merely connecting a pre-Vista PC to the Internet is a security risk.

I pretty much only use my old Win9x PCs for games. If somebody wants to hack 'em and steal my X-Wing save games, well...

yawetaG wrote:

It's better to simply replace the battery, as the BIOS will also lose other more important settings on some systems when the battery is dying.

Yep, I agree. I still like it for keeping my clock synchronized. I'll change the wording of the guide. Thanks again!

yawetaG wrote:

Jorpho wrote:

yawetaG wrote:

If you're using a Windows 98SE Upgrade CD instead of the full version, use a full version of Windows 95 or 98 as the base system, not MS-DOS 6.2 or earlier, as some of the upgraded Win9x MS-DOS tools are not included with the Windows 98SE Upgrade version and you'll be stuck with the old ones.

Which ones?

Important system tools like DOS Scandisk. 😵 Although I must mention that my Win98SE Upgrade CD is an Educational Discount version (which tend to miss any optional extras).

I can't believe it. Windows 98SE supports FAT32 and would absolutely require an upgraded version of Scandisk.

Thanks yawetaG and Jorpho, regarding installation media. Guide is updated.

Jorpho wrote:

yawetaG wrote:

Jorpho wrote:

Which ones?

Important system tools like DOS Scandisk. 😵 Although I must mention that my Win98SE Upgrade CD is an Educational Discount version (which tend to miss any optional extras).

I can't believe it. Windows 98SE supports FAT32 and would absolutely require an upgraded version of Scandisk.

Well, it's been 15 years since I last installed Win98SE Upgrade over DOS 6.22 and had all kinds of issues which are absent from my current Win98SE Upgrade install over Win95, so I might be misremembering the exact tool. IIRC, Scandisk worked fine in Windows, the DOS version was exceptionally slow.
I just checked the CD, and installing over MS-DOS is not even mentioned in the readme's - only Windows 95/98/NT (which matches the info I've found elsewhere recently) - so Microsoft isn't exactly recommending it as an option...
If I have the chance to try that combination again in the near future, I'll check whether stability issues always ensue or whether it was my particular system back then, and see whether I can figure out why it happens.

@KT7AGuy: Just put in MS recommends Windows95/98/NT as the base system for a Windows 98SE Upgrade - exact reason to be investigated. 😄

Why would the upgrade mention MS-DOS? Windows isn't an upgrade for DOS....it's arguably a downgrade. 😉

IIRC the upgrade can be used on a bare system with a file from Windows 3.1 for the validation check. Can't remember the name at the moment.

Upgrade or Full it's the same files but the only way to know for sure is to perform both installs and do a windiff.

Having a hard drive reader is very handy with 98!

Before I install windows I format the drive in fat32 with my windows 8.1 machine and avoid fdisk.

After every thing is set up I use the drive reader again and do a full back up of the drive and save the image to my NAS (in case I really screw things up)

When I need to defrag the drive I connect it to my windows 8.1 machine and run defrag from there and it only takes 5 minutes to do 120GB drives.

Oldskoolmaniac wrote:

Having a hard drive reader is very handy with 98! […]
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Having a hard drive reader is very handy with 98!

Before I install windows I format the drive in fat32 with my windows 8.1 machine and avoid fdisk.

After every thing is set up I use the drive reader again and do a full back up of the drive and save the image to my NAS (in case I really screw things up)

When I need to defrag the drive I connect it to my windows 8.1 machine and run defrag from there and it only takes 5 minutes to do 120GB drives.

What sort of drive reader are you using? Is it IDE/PATA to USB? If so, do you worry about the 40-pin interface wearing out or becoming damaged with frequent connects/disconnects? That would be my concern with using a desktop drive dock. Otherwise, I think the idea is great!

I basically do the same thing, but without the luxury of a USB dock for hard drives. Instead, I just use a WinXP boot disc: UBCD4Win. Unfortunately, it looks like UBCD4Win is now officially "legacy" software since the website appears to be gone. It hasn't been updated in years anyway. I just checked, and the final Archive.org snapshot is dated 16 July 2014. I didn't even realize it has been gone for so long. The last time I made an updated UBCD4Win disc was in November of 2013. At the time, I made both a bootable CDROM and USB stick. I've been using them both and haven't checked for updates since. Oh well, I guess I'll just continue to use them until they eventually fail due to old age.

Anyway, I essentially do the same thing as you. Diskpart, format, defrag, and chkdsk under WinXP via my bootable CD and USB stick. It's much faster, as you already noted. I also make plenty of system images using Norton/Symantec Ghost. DriveImage XML is bundled with UBCD4Win by default and it's freeware, but I've never actually bothered to try it. I'm sure it works just fine for Win9x and even Win2K/WinXP.

Is anybody aware of a more modern UBCD4Win alternative? Maybe something at least based on the Win7 pre-boot environment?