VOGONS


First post, by MKT_Gundam

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Theres any way to install DOS 6.22 from CD-rom?

Retro rig 1: Asus CUV4X, VIA c3 800, Voodoo Banshee (Diamond fusion) and SB32 ct3670.
Retro rig 2: Intel DX2 66, SB16 Ct1740 and Cirrus Logic VLB.

Reply 1 of 18, by Jo22

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MS-DOS 6.22 was released as CD-ROM at some point (just like WfW 3.11, btw).
Not sure if it required a separate boot disk, though.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 2 of 18, by derSammler

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Jo22 wrote:

MS-DOS 6.22 was released as CD-ROM at some point (just like WfW 3.11, btw).

Officially? No. I own one of the last OEM copys from 1999 and those still came on floppy disks. Unlike Windows 3.x, which you can install from any directory and just copy all files from all disks into that folder, MS-DOS can not be installed that way. And you can't change the disk image that a (bootable) CD-ROM booted from either. If there ever was MS-DOS on CD, it was either not from Microsoft or just served as a rescue disc.

But you can install FreeDOS from CD, and some chinese, hacked version of MS-DOS 7.x.

Reply 3 of 18, by leileilol

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That certain "abandonware" site is revising history again. MS-DOS 6 CD releases don't legally exist. It doesn't exist in a bootable form either. You're talking freaking DOS, an OS without a CD-ROM driver of its own, to be isntalled from disc. On a fresh system, that's impossible without a boot disk with CD-ROM drivers (like.......win9x boot disks).

The closest you'll get are some OEM system restore CDs and that'd be too old for being bootable either.

apsosig.png

Reply 4 of 18, by Jo22

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derSammler wrote:
Jo22 wrote:

MS-DOS 6.22 was released as CD-ROM at some point (just like WfW 3.11, btw).

Officially? No. I own one of the last OEM copys from 1999 and those still came on floppy disks.

http://www.oldsoftware.com/dos%206.html
Not sure about the retail versions, though.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 5 of 18, by Warlord

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Ya you could instal dos 6.22 for a CD but i don't know why you would want to.

Basically you install a Virtual Machine on your main rig. Mount virtual 6.22 floppys to feed to the VM and install 6.22, next mount the Virtual harddrive to a drivelefter on the host computer. Create an el torito style Boot CD in like Nero 5.5 or 6 whatever version you have. Maybe other software can do this with like a 98se boot dsik and then copy all of the 6.22 files to the data portion of the CD. Run the 98floppy El-Torito CD on the other computer, fdisk and format the HDD and Xcopy all of the 6.22 files to the drive.

Can you do it yes
why you want to do this who knows. 🤣

Reply 7 of 18, by timb.us

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leileilol wrote:

That certain "abandonware" site is revising history again. MS-DOS 6 CD releases don't legally exist. It doesn't exist in a bootable form either. You're talking freaking DOS, an OS without a CD-ROM driver of its own, to be isntalled from disc. On a fresh system, that's impossible without a boot disk with CD-ROM drivers (like.......win9x boot disks).

The closest you'll get are some OEM system restore CDs and that'd be too old for being bootable either.

You really don’t know what you’re talking about. I have a bootable MS-DOS 6.22 Full Installation ISO that I’ve used on both real PCs and VMs. It boots right into the MS-DOS Setup and proceeds just as if you were installing from floppies. Now, I don’t think this is an official Microsoft release, and I have no idea where I got it (I’ve had it for 15 years, at least), but it does indeed work.

Basically, a bootable CD-ROM contains (what amounts to) a 1.44MB floppy image in a special location that your system/IDE/SCSI BIOS looks for during startup. If it finds this image it loads it into RAM and uses it as a virtual floppy drive to boot from. This floppy image acts as a bootstrap loader of sorts; in the case of DOS it would contain the kernel and command.com, plus MSCDEX and CD-ROM drivers. Once those load from the virtual floppy you now have access to the full CD-ROM.

(What I just described is the Floppy Emulation mode of the El Torito standard; modern systems can use the direct access method, which gives them access to the full CD.)

Remember though, if you mainboard’s BIOS (or SCSI/IDE BIOS for addon cards) doesn’t support the bootable CD standard it won’t work. This didn’t become common until the later part of the 90’s, so most machines from before that period will be out of luck (unless you have one of the aforementioned addon SCSI/IDE card’s with bootable ATAPI support, then it would work; for example, I have a 386 that can boot from CDs thanks to the Adaptec SCSI card.) However, if your system can’t boot from a CD-ROM you could simply boot from a real floppy that loads the CD drivers and proceed from there. This is why Windows 98 still included bootdisks with CD drivers, even though the CD-ROM was bootable.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. (E.g., Cheez Whiz, RF, Hot Dogs)

Reply 8 of 18, by leileilol

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timb.us wrote:

You really don’t know what you’re talking about.

You skimmed past the word "legal" pretty quickly. Not to mention el torito came way after the release of DOS 6.22, don't know why you need to explain a bios addition. I wasn't born yesterday

Jo22 wrote:

Not sure about the retail versions, though.

That's just a complete restore cd with specific drivers, pictures of cows, a video of bill gates saying "cool" and Wfw 3.11 (along with Central Point Office and other crap). It's not a "MS-DoS R@RE 6.22 CD ROM"

apsosig.png

Reply 9 of 18, by gdjacobs

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Just floating a thought, but this would be an interesting project. Avoid dodgy software sources by building a script that assembles a bootdisk and bootable iso with component sets based on a legitimate set of install floppy images (including the addons). Installer could be based on FreeDOS package tools or something custom.

Install could proceed as:
Floppies -> Install to Virtual Disk
Virtual Disk -> Format Boot Floppy Image, Image should be in position for ISO creation
Virtual Disk -> Install boot sector, MSDOS.SYS, IO.SYS, COMMAND.COM, and necessary utilities to Boot Floppy
Host System -> Copy Appropriately licensed CD driver to Boot Floppy
Virtual Disk -> Create Package Sets, Sets should be in position for ISO creation
Host System -> Copy prebuilt Manifests / Scripts and installer binaries into position for ISO creation
Host System -> Build ISO
Host System -> Cleanup

Of course, installing DOS manually using a VM is straightforward, or you can always just use a Gotek.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 10 of 18, by Zup

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ElTorito allows emulation of floppy and hard disk. So what about this?

- Create a 6Mb "fake" floppy image (so all three MS-DOS disks and even the supplementary disk fit on it).
- FORMAT & SYS the image with MS-DOS.
- Copy every file from MS-DOS disks to the image.
- Create a directory on the image and copy the supplementary disks content on it.
- Put the image as a bootable one on your CD.

Would this be enough to have a bootable and installable MS-DOS CD-ROM? I guess that you won't need any CD-ROM driver, because the entire installation would be running on emulation provided by the BIOS.

(BTW, remember that BIOS that can boot from CD weren't common until 1997 or 1998... you will need a bootable floppy for any other computer)

I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 11 of 18, by Azarien

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1. make a bootable DOS CD (ie. burn a DOS boot floppy image to CD). That image should have format, fdisk, sys, xcopy. Also CD-ROM driver should be configured.
2. copy whole C:\DOS folder from existing installation (could be a VM) to ISO part of the CD.
2a. add whatever else you want to the CD.
3. boot the CD.
4. prepare the HDD manually (fdisk, format, sys)
5. xcopy the whole DOS folder from CD to HDD.
6. profit 😀

Alternatively you can use some archiver for DOS directory instead of copying separate files.

Last edited by Azarien on 2018-03-04, 09:29. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 12 of 18, by derSammler

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Jo22 wrote:
derSammler wrote:
Jo22 wrote:

MS-DOS 6.22 was released as CD-ROM at some point (just like WfW 3.11, btw).

Officially? No. I own one of the last OEM copys from 1999 and those still came on floppy disks.

http://www.oldsoftware.com/dos%206.html
Not sure about the retail versions, though.

That's a rescue disc just as I assumed. These were made by the OEMs, not by MS. Retail versions of such don't exist.

Reply 13 of 18, by Zup

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Azarien wrote:
1. make a bootable DOS CD (ie. burn a DOS boot floppy image to CD). That image should have format, fdisk, sys, xcopy. Also CD-RO […]
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1. make a bootable DOS CD (ie. burn a DOS boot floppy image to CD). That image should have format, fdisk, sys, xcopy. Also CD-ROM driver should be configured.
2. copy whole C:\DOS folder from existing installation (could be a VM) to ISO part of the CD.
2a. add whatever else you want to the CD.
3. boot the CD.
4. prepare the HDD manually (fdisk, format, sys)
5. xcopy the whole DOS folder from CD to HDD.
6. profit 😀

Alternatively you can use some archiver for DOS directory instead of copying separate files.

That's the easy way, copying a installation but (because of differences on drivers) won't boot on every computer and is not an automated installation.

I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 14 of 18, by Jo22

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derSammler wrote:

That's a rescue disc just as I assumed.

Well, yes, I guess so. But DOS/WfW can be installed from scratch, as well.

The manual says: This is the instruction manual for your Operating System CD.
This CD contains backup copies of MS-DOS (R) 6.22 and Windows(R) for Workgroups 3.11.
Inside are complete instructions describing how to use the Operating System CD and its directories.
Your Operating System CD must be in the CD-ROM drive before using any of the installation programs.

derSammler wrote:

These were made by the OEMs, not by MS. Retail versions of such don't exist.

Well, I've never claimed Microsoft made them.
It contains the COA certificate, though, so I fail to see why this matters so much. 😕

leileilol wrote:
Jo22 wrote:

Not sure about the retail versions, though.

That's just a complete restore cd with specific drivers, pictures of cows, a video of bill gates saying "cool" and Wfw 3.11 (along with Central Point Office and other crap). It's not a "MS-DoS R@RE 6.22 CD ROM"

So it must been even better than a retail, wow! 😁

For comparison: My CD-ROM copy of WfW3.11 is an OEM release, too, I believe.
It has that red Vobis branding, but otherwise it is just an ordinary install media (no recovery).
But even in comparison to the Microsoft CD-ROM release of Win95 or Tandy's Win 3.0 MME CD-ROM,
it has a very low cow-rating. 🙁

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"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 15 of 18, by timb.us

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leileilol wrote:
You skimmed past the word "legal" pretty quickly. Not to mention el torito came way after the release of DOS 6.22, don't know w […]
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timb.us wrote:

You really don’t know what you’re talking about.

You skimmed past the word "legal" pretty quickly. Not to mention el torito came way after the release of DOS 6.22, don't know why you need to explain a bios addition. I wasn't born yesterday

Jo22 wrote:

Not sure about the retail versions, though.

That's just a complete restore cd with specific drivers, pictures of cows, a video of bill gates saying "cool" and Wfw 3.11 (along with Central Point Office and other crap). It's not a "MS-DoS R@RE 6.22 CD ROM"

Some mid-90’s PCs did come with OEM licensed copies of DOS/WFW on CD-ROM. They weren’t retail Microsoft releases but they were still legal.

The reason I decided to explain El Torito and the fact that it requires BIOS support is your statement about DOS not having built-in CD support. It wasn’t clear if you were aware how bootable CDs worked or not.

Perhaps my opening statement was a bit harsh, I apologize for the tone.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. (E.g., Cheez Whiz, RF, Hot Dogs)

Reply 16 of 18, by gdjacobs

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Zup wrote:
ElTorito allows emulation of floppy and hard disk. So what about this? […]
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ElTorito allows emulation of floppy and hard disk. So what about this?

- Create a 6Mb "fake" floppy image (so all three MS-DOS disks and even the supplementary disk fit on it).
- FORMAT & SYS the image with MS-DOS.
- Copy every file from MS-DOS disks to the image.
- Create a directory on the image and copy the supplementary disks content on it.
- Put the image as a bootable one on your CD.

Would this be enough to have a bootable and installable MS-DOS CD-ROM? I guess that you won't need any CD-ROM driver, because the entire installation would be running on emulation provided by the BIOS.

(BTW, remember that BIOS that can boot from CD weren't common until 1997 or 1998... you will need a bootable floppy for any other computer)

I'm not sure if the DOS installer looks for a floppy switch.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 17 of 18, by Orkay

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I find that installing MS-DOS 6.22 from a CD-ROM or over the network is actually very practical when dealing with a bunch of old systems, at least those of the AT kind or faster. The setup program in MS-DOS 5/6 supplies a minimal configuration which may not be desirable if you need a lot of conventional memory freed up or you want SMARTDRV.EXE to enable write caching. Retyping the same optimal configuration can get pretty tedious, so I generally prefer to have a template handy that does the work for me. Of course, since no such official installation CD exists apart from some restoration discs from 1994 to 1996 at the latest, you have to create your own from scratch.

It's easier to install MS-DOS to a virtual machine normally; just go through the three disks as you normally would. For MS-DOS 6.22, you may also install the supplemental tools on the first boot if desired. Once that's done, you can use 7-Zip to extract the contents of the virtual hard disk (a VDI or VMDK file) to a new directory. Don't copy the files COMMAND.COM, IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, or MS-DOS_6 (or whatever the empty file containing the volume name is); the system files will be installed using another command.

Since MS-DOS doesn't come with a lot of drivers on its own, you'll need to add some yourself. This requires little thought with generic drivers, but other things like sound cards may require adding complexity to your installation disc. You can download CuteMouse and a generic IDE CD-ROM driver like OAKCDROM.SYS for starters.

Edit the copies of CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT as you normally would to your liking. There are a few lines you'll definitely need in the two files.

For CONFIG.SYS:

DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD0001

For AUTOEXEC.BAT:

LH C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD0001
C:\DOS\CTMOUSE.EXE

Of course, DOS is tiny compared to a 700MB CD-ROM, so you might want to load it up with a whole bunch of other software and drivers you can later install manually. 7-Zip can be used to extract files from floppy disk images just as easily as virtual hard disks. The setup files for Windows 3.1x can be combined into a single directory, allowing for a quick and painless installation of this complementary graphical environment.

Now you'll need to write a setup batch script to be stored on the CD-ROM. You can write it in whatever way you want, maybe make it more flexible by incorporating CHOICE.COM to select different configurations suited for AT or 386 systems, but this one below is single-purposed for 4MB+ 386 systems and faster using the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files that will basically be hard-coded. This script expects you to change the directory to where it is located, and is not flexible with drive letters apart from that of the CD-ROM being used.

@ECHO OFF
IF NOT EXIST SETUP.BAT GOTO ERROR
ECHO Ready to install MS-DOS 6.22, press CTRL-C to abort.
PAUSE
COPY *.* C:\
DEL C:\SETUP.BAT
MD C:\DOS
COPY DOS\*.* C:\DOS
A:
SYS.COM C:
ECHO Installation is complete. Please restart your computer.

GOTO END

:ERROR
ECHO You must change to the same directory as the setup script!

:END

All you need to do now is find or create some MS-DOS boot disk of your choice which includes a CD-ROM driver; they're not hard to find. Load up ImgBurn and select the option to create an ISO image from files. Copy all the contents of the CD-ROM you want to create to the Source box. Make sure you're using the ISO9660 format; others can be included, but ISO9660 is required. Switch to the Advanced tab, and in there, select the Restrictions tab to make sure it is set to Level 1. To make the CD-ROM bootable, go to the tab next to it, Bootable Disc. Check "Make Image Bootable", set the emulation type to a 1.44MB floppy disk (or whatever matches the boot floppy's format), and point to the floppy image to boot from. Create the ISO, and you can burn it to a physical CD when you're ready.

Of course, the ability to boot from a CD is something that'll generally only be available on a Pentium or late era 486 machine with a BIOS update, or a SCSI controller (for that, you'd need to load more drivers). You can either use an MS-DOS boot floppy or the bootable CD-ROM; both work the same, apart from the latter having much faster access times. Once you're at the prompt, all you'll need to do is partition and format the primary partition if you haven't already, change the directory to where SETUP.BAT is, run it, and reboot when it's finished. From there, you'll see you have a complete MS-DOS environment in seconds.

There's nothing super complex to installing DOS as opposed to something like Windows 95; you just copy the system files, a bunch of utilities, and have a configuration created for you. It's hardly any different from installing MS-DOS 3.x by hand. I have a video which details the process of creating an MS-DOS install CD; the relevant portion begins at 1:29. https://vlare.tv/v/fBLhKOvZ

Reply 18 of 18, by bbusse

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I'm sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I am actually trying to find out if DOS 6.0 (or 6.22 for that matter) is actually capable of being installed from 'any' alternate location/drive letter. DOS 6.0 is my goal for reasons you'll see below.

I recently, after 20+ years of searching, obtained the files (not the original disk) for the 'Tandy Startup' floppy disk, for a 1st generation 'Tandy Sensation!' (model 25-1650). This floppy disk, in combination with using the Tandy System Disc (CD) version 1.2, basically ran DOS 5.0 SETUP.EXE like the below command:

A:\SETUP.EXE D: \DOS50

On the CD, there is a DOS50 folder in the root, and under that a DISK1 and DISK2 subfolder with all the contents of what I assume is the typical DOS 5.0 setup disks. There were only a couple required files on the Floppy disk itself aside from the standard io.sys, msdos.sys, and command.com; IBMIO.COM, IBMDOS.COM, and maybe one or two other files. But ultimately, it would launch DOS 5.0 setup (whether you had a partition or not), create one and format it, if needed, and after a reboot and running SETUP the same way again, would actually install DOS 5.0 like it was being done off a floppy disk... only using the CDROM as it's source. It's not just some hack using XCOPY to make a DOS folder with files in it, it's the real setup process asking a couple questions like normal. I have yet to see this documented as a method anywhere, but it sure works. Blew my mind. Of course after installing DOS 5.0 along with proper cd-rom drivers, etc... you could reboot the PC and then run the 'install.bat' file which IS just a hacky XCOPY method of restoring the HDD contents from a CD:\ORIGINAL\* folder.

That said, There's also a slightly newer Tandy System Disc version 1.3, that instead of a DOS50 folder in the root, has a DOS60 folder (with DISK1,DISK2,DISK3,SUPLEMNT subfolders). So if you wanted to 'restore' your Tandy Sensation from factory using this newer CD and have DOS 6.0 instead of 5.0, you'd need a DOS 6 version of this floppy disk, which I honestly do NOT think exists. Oversite on Tandy's part but they went out of business not too terribly much longer after this thing was made. I tried using that v1.3 CD and a DOS 6 bootable floppy disk I made to see if running SETUP that same way would work, and indeed it does not. Floppy disk label is correct, etc... it just doesn't like the syntax. So, I was wondering if any of you fine folks know of a way to do this? And conversely, if you haven't ever seen the DOS 5.0 trick... I'm happy to show you also.

Also, if that is a known method of installing DOS 5.0, please point me to the documentation that say so. I looked and can't find anything. 😀

Thanks in advance!
Brian