Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos to Win98-Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Getting old software/games running on older hardware.

Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos to Win98-Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Postby ruthan » 2018-8-13 @ 13:07

I was looking for some good DOS networking guide (especially for transferring and file sharing) and i didnt find something that i would consider really good, so im trying to make something better and help me and you too.

This post is work in progress and its often updated, time of last edit is in footer, major updates are described in following posts, TBD - means to be defined its just placeholder for work in progress...

Basic info:
  • I newer was and to be honest wanted to be networking expert (its boring stuff for me), i never cared about TCP layers, Mikrotiks,HW firewalls back in day i used only Serial or Parallel cables for Dos data transfers and data transfers and real networking (file copying and gaming) i done through Win9x+.. i just want to make it working, with so less effort how is possible.
  • This guide is not programmers guide, its all about users, so programmers info could be here found only indirectly, but i dont have any problems with programs discussion in this thread.
  • This guide should be for pure Dos+Dos Virtual machines+DosBox, because lots of things could be debugged in them faster, its mainly for MS-DOS, but at least now with present knowledge is networking in FreeDOS better (you can access DOS share from modern machines) that in MS-DOS.
  • This guide is mainly about TCPIP networking, DOSbox already has inbuild IPX networking and in Windows you can just add IPX protocol and its just working for gaming.
  • Nowell Netware networking Vogons thread - Win7/Win 10 are still supported, so you can do DOS-WIN10 ultimate networking with it.. i dunno, if it theory or already proven fact by some user, but at least on paper its officialy supported Netware 5 clients are (DOS to Win10) - tell me if you know more. You need commercial licence for Netware. Main argument is that DOS client for filesharing eats just 4 KB of Conventional memory.
  • Even there some Dos games with networking support, guide at least for now mainly about DOS data transfers to avoid reboots to new OS or for Case opening, HDD swapping, floppy / CD data exchanges etc.. It depends on machine, speed, used network card and its packed driver, but i was able to reach 10 MB+ transfer speeds with mTCP FTP server, so when you dont need transfer gigabytes of data, it could be very fast.
  • I care only about ethernet (+ wifi if is possible to make it working) card networking, no dial up networking - im glad that this era ended. Some Freedos Wifi info.
  • I can add some Linux / MacOS info, if you post it, but i will not try it but myself, im using these OSes, but not as main OS.
  • Im multiboot and much modern HW as possible guy, so im trying to push this aspect, in this thread too, my thread about X58 machine for Dos, mainly aimed to Sound cards testing with modern chipsets
  • My Drivers and Utils package for pure Dos - in included Dos Packet drivers for lots of cards and mTCP, some NIC config batch files etc. Because post is very long search for "last version(eurotime)" text to find download link - packet drivers is in folder ETHERDVR
  • In text is often used NIC shorcut it means networking integrated controller / card.
  • Some basic abbreviations and basic are explained here
  • SMB means Server Message Block != Samba, its protocol for sharing mainly files and directories between different OSes, devices etc. There always has to be SMB client and SMB server to make connection working. For SMB is needed NetBios, which could work like subprotocol carried by TCPIP.
  • Any Virtual machine networking test were done with Bridge mode, to avoid NAT limitations, NAT - means that Virtual machine has only visible networking IP address, which could be access to it by ping / ftp client etc.. There is tutorial how to bypass NAT limitation with port forwarding with Virtualbox.
  • Im testing with MS-DOS 6.22 and MS-DOS 7.1, but lots of thing would work on older version, especially mTCP+ its FTP server/client are able to work on very old machine..
  • If you are Linux / Unix guy - there is SSH client for DOS.
  • Yeah you even can post to Vogons from Dos machine. With Arachne 1.97 browser its working! (2018/8)
  • Dos Internet Browsers in 2017 Nostalgia Nerd video
  • Wins server - is simply DNS for old MS stuff based on NetBeui protocol. chinny22: It may find devices on the network a bit easier as it's MS default protocol, but not really, I wouldn't bother.
  • MS Client lmlogon - need - NT server running as a Domain Controller, what is probably nothing what you want to keep running at home.

Knowledge PIT => wisdom -solutions / discoveries / best practices:
  • IPX networking is in-built in Dosbox, just set IPX to true in Dosbox.conf + there command to setup IPX for network multiplayer.
  • FreeDos networking site - Best Dos networking info page so far. Navigating is cumbersome for return to index page click and index link at the bottom.. heavily harvested for this post (article).
  • Network stack (sometimes also called as Network / TCPIP kernel) could be integrate within application so you dont need by yourself care about it and you need only packet driver (see bellow) - examples (WATTCP(most used, regarding of Jeffrey Hayes: more than half Dos networking programs is using it ), KA9Q,NCSA Telnet kernel, CUTCP kernel)
    - WATTCP is usually configured by WATTCP.CFG file in programs folder, details how to configure it, can be found here

  • Major packages / solutions:
    - There are some major networking packages / solutions (Novel Netware is excluded has own thread, there is not tutorial yet and i dont have license) which are usually part of other articles, some packages have included some solution inside.. not al item in the list is alternative to other:

    a) mTCP stack - 2006-2015 (last update) - its more light and easy to use, set of TCP/IP programs for DOS, but need packet driver for you network card, which is not part of package. Theory behind the package - long and lots of history background info.
    - When i enable its stack + Intel Gbit packet driver - it consumes only 10 KB of conventional memory (with older packet drivers it could be slightly different).
    - It can run on very old version of DOS and very old machines like - IBM PC, PCjr, PC XT, PC AT, PC Convertible, etc its tested by MBrutman himself.
    - the current list of applications includes a DHCP client (so Network could be partly automatically configured - you have only define PACKETINT +
    HOSTNAME
    in mTCP configuration file), DNStester(call machine through hostnames not ip address), Telnet client, IRC client, Simple Network Time Protocol (SNTP) client -simply sytem time synchronizer, FTP client, FTP server (most important for data transfers), Ping, Netcat, and HTGet (an HTTP file fetcher, wget equivalent).
    Souce code and info for developers and notes how are available here.
    You can also use DDHCP.COM intead of DHCP in package good it that its working with WATTCP programs to details.
    mTCP was faster solution in this independent test.
    - Phils video how to make mTCP stack to work - you need to be patient, pacing is very slow.. At the end is how to start ftpserver on Dos.
    Could be used together with MS Client full networking and MS Client Minimal networking, what is great, you can use best from both worlds (FTP file transfering and Windows filesharing).

    Problems:
    - Its not able to ping modern Windows 7 / 10 machines by hostnames
    - i wasnt able to make it working with most of ODI Nic drivers (with virtual machines AMxxx and older cards its usually working, with newer card dont..)
    - on 1 place where i living is ISP DNS detected instead of local ISP => DNS is not working with automatic network settings, you still static networking addresses, but its annoying (you can make universal package.. and you change IP address per machine)
    - FPT client is only command base, no GUI, no 2 panels manager (so lazy beings as me will never use it).
    - FTP client / server dont support SFTP (so its not secure FTP is plain text)
    - FTP client dont support long files names auto shorting (mangling) mechanism (it simply refusing to transfer such files), what is annoying with some multiOS DOS/Windows games and other files.

    b) netbootdisk - good for start with MS Client networking pack, last update 2010, its floppy image which could be migrated to HDD installation (Rayer) was able to do that, but such package cant be distributed because of licensing.. Is big packaged with lots of features, but when you loaded it take lots of conventional memory (100-250 KB with Ndis driver), so its impossible to have it enabled all the time and i even not enough conventional memory to run Arachne browser. Lots of network basic utilities are part of package. - proper IPCONFIG + FTP, LICQ (i dunno i its working at present day), SCP, SFTP, SSH. wget (downloading file through url),wol (wake on lan).
    - You cant download complete bootable image, you have to do it manually manually, its annoying, i did it in Vmware virtual machine and floppy image. It seems to that except Floppy version is USB flash disk supported too (i didnt tested it).
    - Its including lots of network drivers (list) and have auto detection of NIC and its driver loading.
    - Ndis2 dos drivers (various types of DOS driver are explained bellow) are used (Ndis driver is required by MS Client).
    - Its using MS-DOS Lan manager 2.1 technology + MS TCPIP protocol driver 1.0A + MS TCPIP + MS DNS 2.1

    c) Microsoft MS CLient TCPTSR.exe + LAN Manager - MS TCPIP stack (kernel) for HDD/SSD - Tutorial for MS-DOS networking Stack - its step by step tutorial - how install it and how to share directories from Dos machine.. nothing more, no theory. You if want to just install it quickly as possible a try it yourself that is the way..
    Few notes to tutorial: You can extract both disk*.exe files to same directory. If is you network adapter included in main package you have to know path to its Ndis driver before installation. Setup is a bit cumbersome, check every option and edit setting often to set, computer name, workgroup name and installed protocols (most important is to add TCPIP protocol).
    In documentation is that MS-DOS 3-6.22 is supported (readme was written before Win98 OSR2 or Win98 exists), im using it with MS-DOS 7.1 it seems that is working fine.
    It seems to that there 2 version of MS Networking - a) MS Client and b) Lan Manager (also called LanMan) - difference are described here..
    Other important choice is selection between basic and full redirector (Enhanced Client installation) configuration - one is share level (probably not security at all) and other is user level (password protected). There are also note that some utils MS Client dont use for ip address "." delimeter but spaces" ".
    There is info about some other issues with basic redictor, file data is broken.
    With MS Solution is connected with Win socket technology - here is explanation what it is.

    Lan Man (Lan Manager) - MS so called minimal client package:
    Lan Manager has own TCPIP stack is not compatible with others programs (source).
    By default you can with MS-Client only access other machine shared data, but its not possible to connect back to Dos machine, but there is hack - look here and search for Adding server capabilities to the MS Client

    Lan Manager is client only, you connect to remote machine, but remote machine cant connect to your machine which is running Lan Manager (source - part its only client).
    Lan Manager installation tutorial. - some info could be used for MS Client too.
    Some LanMan commands examples, lots of that you be used with MS Client too.
    With LanMan is possible to use Windows like host file, for define hostnames for machine with which is not working DNS naming (typically Win7-Win 10 machines)

    Minimal MS client package use only utility netbind to enable network for some TCP stack (as mTCP), is not provide only other network MS utils or functions, for that you need use full MS network package or copy some additional utils to package (TBD has to be tested if it possible).

    Good news is that most (everything except Protman driver) of the minimal client drivers could be loaded by devload (optimal driver loading utility is part of my Drivers and Utils package) and its working fine, so you dont need to add these driver to config.sys for every boot ever they would eat precious conventional / upper memory, but you can run networking only when you need it, after Dos boot..
    Small bonus feature of Lan Manager is that you can send some messages (simple chat) between computer with it and some old Windows machines, full blown MS Client networking lack this feature.

    MS client Full more info:
    Article how to install Microsoft network client 3 with more theory - text in not too much technically structured. Start is about how to create Windows 98 boot floppy and setup empty Dos HDD and how to create MS Client installation diskettes with custom ndis (*.dos driver). - i didnt fully read / hardvested it yet. After that you will finally install and configure MS Client are picture and some theory.
    There is how to you setup config and autoexec.bat for MS Client networking and also some memory manager setting (because its doing complete Dos setup from scratch), you will create network password after first reboot.
    After installation, try NET VIEW and if everything fine would see computer on your network (how they should be configured, if and which version of Windows share are supported etc is not par of article), note that net view is not working with some configurations (details -part Other challenges). Through NET use command can map shared folder as drive letter. There is section how to setup network manually - protocol.ini editing. Network patches (are UNC standart \\dosmachine\Folder type). You also should have to set name Workgroup name as on Windows names (Workgroup is default name in all version of Win which i used - Win95+)
    You can change add / remove NIC driver through setup.exe in you MS Client installation folder (3 files needed *.Dos, OEMSETUP.INF, PROTOCOL.INI), by in article is way how to bypass that and be able install NIC only with *.Dos file.

    In MS Client 3.0 documentation is this passage about MS-DOS and Windows TCP/IP difference (limitations):
    There is a difference in functionality available in TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups, and Windows NT Workstation and Server, versus MS-DOS TCP/IP. Specifically, an MS-DOS TCP/IP client :
    - does not support DNS resolution using WINS (what is Wins severs you can find bellow)
    - does not support WINS resolution using DNS
    - does not register its name with the WINS database; it does queries only
    - does not act as a WINS proxy node
    - does not have multihomed support (i dunno what it is)
    - does not support IGMP[/i]

    Other interesting passage from MS-Clients Documentation:
    [i]- Network Client does not provide a browse master. Therefore, a computer running Windows for Workgroups or Windows NT must be on the network and belong to the same workgroup as the computer running Network Client.
    Note that this does not prevent you from connecting to a shared resource. You will just need to know the name of the server and share beforehand in order to connect to it.


    d) Trumpet for DOS (TCPDRV later renamed to NTCPDRV) - outdated TCP stack from 1992, extenal (global / not build within programs) TCPIP stack. You need to get NTCPDRV.ZIP (its free and commercial version) and configuration info. Independent source claims that is slow and have some packet lost.

    e) Novell NetWare TCPIP.EXE - TCPIP stack (kernel) for Nowell networks - it need licences, which are hard to get, because Nowell is gone. Own Vogon thread. Its extremely light weight and has client for DOS to Win10. More info needed. Novell solution was number #1 networking solution back in day, at least on company level. Im not sure if it is just tool for network file sharing or have more networking tools and it compatible with utilities from other networking stacks.. TBD.
    DR-DOS 7.03 has inbuild Netware networking stack - its optimal par of installation, i didnt tested it yet.

    f) FTP Software INc. ETHDRV.EXE - TCPIP stack (kernel), any site which i checked recommends to use it today.

  • Packet drivers for NIC needed to DOS networking
    - Packet driver is very simply (and probably inaccurately said) - TSR (program running in memory all the time about execution, like Sound card drivers or CD-ROM handlers etc..), which is compatible with packet driver API => programs are written to use this API, so they dont need to have code to support every single NIC, but need packet driver compatible driver (older NIC better chance that such driver exist) Its like DirectDraw, Direct3D, Direct sound, OpenGL, Glide on Windows..
  • Packet driver theory - explaned by MBBrutman - more accurate experts definition
    From my experience packet driver is most light-weight and less problematic and most easy to configure, use it when exist for your NIC and you want to use mTCP, other network stack need own drivers APIs (ODI - Nowell, NDIS - MS stuff).
    Packet drivers often could autodetect all parameters by itself, if not there usually 3 parameters all has to be unique in systems
    - software interupt (also called vector) - from 0x60 to 0x7F range, because to there not too much program using these, 0x60 or 0x61 are usually free.
    - real interrupt - usually 3,9,10
    - I/O Address - i/o address used for device communication its like A220 typical for sound cards..

    Packet drivers wrappers:

    ODI shim:
    - ODI - Open Data-Link Interface (ODI) is another similar API that was used primarily by Novell NetWare and Apple Macintosh environments.
    - If your adapter does not provide a packet driver you might be able to use DIS_PKT which provides NDIS to packet driver translation or ODIPKT which provides ODI to packet driver translation.[/i] Michael Bernardi: Configuration is fairly straightforward using a text file called NET.CFG Used for Novel Netware + TCP/IP services.
    - Alternative Caldera SHIM - PKT2ODI.EXE, could be downloaded here, if is not DIS_PKT not working for you try this one, i dunno know other differences, i can only say that Caldera is newer one.
    - Its much lighter (from conventional memory / configuration point of view) that NDIS driver, if you want to use mTCP, not MS Client networking (filesharing) use it instead of NDIS driver.

    NDIS Shim:
    - Ndis driver is connected to MS solution, so you need at least minimal package of MS client, you need to start netbind before mTCP dphc to make TCPIP networking working.

    - Alternative APIs to Packet drivers, text by MBBrutman + Michael Bernardi i have to mix them together to create "full" message:
    - NDIS (MS+3com)=> MS Client 3 -The Network Driver Interface Specification is a similar API used primarily with Microsoft Windows. Michael Bernardi: The NDIS drivers use the most memory of all the drivers in use, so should only be used where no other driver is available OR the software you want to uses only works with NDIS. RuThaN: Its used for MS-Client networking - to integrate DOS machines into a Windows / SMB workgroup / networking <- Regarding of this page. The NetBEUI protocol can't be used on top of a packet driver though, as the packet driver interface is too different from NDIS (source).
    - With *.Dos (=NDIS) driver you need also protocol.ini (configuration) file.
    NDIS versions: NDIS 6 which is used in Windows Vista (i dunno how about Win 7+). Windows 98 are using NDIS 5, Windows 95 came with NDIS 3.1. In DOS you have to use the real-mode driver NDIS2 (probably Windows 3.xx ones).
    - Its using IFSHLP.SYS (Installable File System Helper, from net package, native MS-DOS 7.1 is not working), which is at least in MS-DOS 7.1 loaded, even when is not added to config.sys.. when you enable step by step start confirmation, this file is always try to load. Its 32 bit filesystem handler to bypass original DOS 16bit FS driver limitations. Details about whole initialization sequence are described here.
    To make Ndis working with TCPIP you need some MS CLIENT files (info - you need protman.dos, protman.exe and Netbind.com from MS-CLient 3 package.
    - after that you need shim - universal (for every NIC) wrapper / convertor - DIS_PKT9.DOS or newer dis_pkt11.zip (you can download it here). They are completely free. In protocol.ini both version should be called through same name - "PKTDRV$"

    How to make MS Client minimal package working tutorial:
    - source info for that, i doing my version because i enhanced some steps and trid to make it more simple..

    1. Get somewhere MS Client 3 installation files (DSK3-1.EXE + DSK3-2.EXE)
    2. Just extract DSK3-1.EXE with 7zip on modern system and ignore errors.. Files which you need will extracted.
    3. Next to do is expand (fancy word for older data extraction) 2 files from extracted package. Expand is not possible to it on Win10 64bit.. Or Dosbox. I did it within DOS 7.1, it will probably work inside Windows 98 and Xp too (untested). Expand is also in extracted package so it will probably work within MS-DOS 6.22 and older.

      Here you run these commands, which run in folder where you have extracted data:
      Code: Select all
      expand -r protman.do_
      expand -r protman.ex_

      You will gain protman.dos and protman.exe by expandation.
      NETBIND.COM is already uncompressed gained by 7zip operation before.
    4. Get DIS_PKT9.DOS (version 9) or version 11(dis_pkt.dos) from link above and extract them to same directory and 3 files above.
    5. Add *.Dos driver for you NIC, which you can find in my Drivers and Utils package EtherDvr\!NDIS folder or some packet drivers link, within this post, or elsewhere..
    6. Now create / edit protocol.ini in same directory - I will use C:\Drivers\MsCLTMin directory as shortcut for MS client minimal install..

      Protocol.ini definition: -- You dont need to use text after ; in real file. These are just my comments to help to understand the code.
      Code: Select all
      [protman]
      DriverName=PROTMAN$

      [B57]     ; place your NIC driver filename without .dos
      DriverName=B57$  ;place your NIC driver filename and $ at the end

      [PKTDRV]
      drivername=PKTDRV$
      bindings=B57      ; again NIC driver filename without .dos
      intvec=0x60       ; Software Interrupt Vector for PD, if problem you can increase it i thing this one is for irq 3, for irq 9 is 0x61
      chainvec=0x68    ; try 0x69 and increase value if encounter problems

    7. Add to config.sys these linbes, regarding of you directory with files // Change B57.dos for you NIC *.DOS driver
      Code: Select all
      DEVICE=C:\Drivers\MsCLTMin\PROTMAN.DOS /I:C:\Drivers\MsCLTMin
      DEVICE=C:\Drivers\MsCLTMin\B57.DOS
      DEVICE=C:\Drivers\MsCLTMin\DIS_PKT.DOS

      * DeviceHIGH for load drivers to upper memory is also possible - tested, working.
      * Alternatively you can load these line only on demanad after boot with devload - is inf above..
    8. Add to autoexec.bat this line, regarding of you directory with files
      Code: Select all
      C:\Drivers\MsCLTMin\NETBIND.COM

      * // NETBIND.COM can not be loaded high (with LH) so memory eating is even more eminent.. Its starting MS-DOS Lan Manager 2.1
      * If will use devload solution, this line will do nothing, so you have to remove it too and run netbind after load network drivers after boot.
    9. Reboot and test package with your TCPIP stack
      - for mTCP (just set MT.. variable and its config file and run dphc - if is everything right i will give you ip address and network will be working..
  • DOS NICs networking drivers sources:
    - Some Packet drivers sources: 1 , 2 - proper NIC names
    - Dave Dunfield - PKTDRV.exe - collection of ~100 network driver and some NIC detection utility.. You select your NIC in menu and packet drivers of ODI Shim for you card would be extracted to same directory where PKTDRV.exe was execute, often there is also some starting .bat to make to run drivers more easily.

    --- end of packet driver section ----

    More details about different networking solution usage:
  • Very basic procedure how to make dos networking working:
    1) Make packet driver for you NIC working, it there is not native packet driver, use Wrappers (Shims).
    2) Set network variables - ip adress, gateway, dns etc.. for IP addresses for gateway and dns - you can use your routers ip address.
    3) Start TCPIP stack.
  • NICscan.exe utility to print out name of NIC is pure Dos
    - at least on some board is not able to find integrated NIC, unless additional PCI NIC is removed
  • Its always good idea, test you NIC, router, cable setup etc.. with some other modern OS on same machine, before you try to make Dos networking to work, because modern OS have better ways to debug problems..If you machine is fast enough to run, at least Windows 9x, older Linux etc.
  • MBbrutman: Find the right packet driver for your adapter and parameters. Older adapters often have open source packet drivers and are well understood. If your adapter does not have a packet driver you might be able to use an ODI or NDIS driver with a "shim" that makes it look like a packet driver. RuThaN: This explain why some drivers have different formats.. but i still dont have enough knowledge to tell you how exactly to use them - TBD..
  • If you are using MS-DOS 7.1 on Windows98 partion, original ping.exe is Windows only, so for you have to use ping from TCP stack package. I have to execute ping right from mTCP, if there is some workaround how to make mTCP ping primary, just tell me, Netbootdisk is able to do that..
  • Shim regarding of wikipedia - is fancy word for Wrapper / Converter, realtime translation one API to other. ODIPKT.COM for ODI drivers is Shim.
  • MS Client installation files download.
  • Regarding of this info - if application using WATTP libary you only need packet driver not TCPIP stack to make networking working.

MS Client Minimal package experience notes:
- You dont need to install full MS Client 3 package to make it working, you can do minimal MS CLient install 4 files + driver - details are here and in Ndis description bellow.
- it eats 50 KB of Conventional or Upper memory (with Broadcom 57xx driver), that is much better that Netbootdisk / MS Client Full (~150 KB).. but far from ideal.
- change of NIC is easy just copy *.dos driver to your Minimal client directory - change protocol.ini NIC lines and change driver *.dos filename in Autoexec.bat

Testing utilities from MS full client with Minimal package:
- i just copy utility to Minimal package directory and try to run it, is no point to add more files and heavily edit init files etc, because results would be MS client full version- results is simple nothing is working, because some other drivers are needed.


MS Client 3 - full blown experience
- its recommended to install it in Domain NT mode (full redirector), because basic redirector lacks some features..Explanation is a bit unclear i used Doman mode, because i though that i could help with new OS compatibility, if someone understand it pleas explain. There is at least know bug with file dates with basic redirector, for OS compatibility testing i always used full redirector.
- be aware that if you are using MS-DOS 7.1 from WIndows 98 on same partition, it has own net.exe (too) and its set as primary, its usually working for net use, but it doesnt suppors net share.. for sharing make sure that you are executing patched net.exe form MS Client directory.
- Setup -Protocols i removed NWlink (Nowell) and installed TCPIP, you can also add NetBEUI..
- NT mode (redirector) could be later changed to Basic through setup.exe or through system.ini
- for MS-DOS 7.1 you have to use Ifshlp.sys from MS Client package, not from MS-DOS 7.1 because otherwise you will get Internal error during net start command..
- Its just same stuff as used by Netbootdisk only, Nebootdisk has all preinstalled and has NIC autodetection and is primary run from removable media..
- After installation im able to ping (in package) internal and external machine
- To make DNS working, you need to start DNR.exe from package before net start ans you have to add lines to end of tcputils.ini:
[dnr]
drivername=DNR$
bindings=TCPIP

after that DNR.exe has to be started, it could be done in Autoexec.bat
- IP Address and gateway could be manually fill in PROTOCOL.INI
- Be aware that if you do manual editing in TCPUtils.ini and System.ini and Protocol.ini and start setup.exe again, they are regenerated.. so edits are lots, keep backup!
- During installation you can change Network adapter setting is driver has such parameters and also some protocol details.
- Setup.exe run to edit configuration you need at least 429 KB of coventional memory, it could be problem with lots of protocol installed.
- Ipconfig MScltDirectoryPath - is printing IP adress, dns, gateway etc..
- You can share folder from dos, with patched (WG1049..) MSclient by Net share ShareName=C:\Directory for write access add /Full, you can set password too, after reboot you can only use net share system is remembering directories.. for delete some directory from sharing list use net share Sharename /Delete
- Filesharing has to be enabled in System.ini you can here change all username and workgroup / domanin name
- Net /? | more - print basic network commands for network usage / Net - small GUI; Net diag - diagnosic; Net config - info; Net init - load protocol and network adapter- driver without binding them to Protocol Manger; Net logoff - break connection and share resources ; Net logon - identifies you as member and there are set persistent connection, there are renew; Net Password - change password; Net start - Starts services or loads pop up interface; Net Stop - stops services or unloads the pop-up interface; Net time - display time or synchonize time with time server; Net use - connects or disconnect shared resource or display info about connections; Net view Display a list of computers that share resources or list of shared resources on a specific computer. You need to know computername (hostname), connection through ip address is not supported! - You will get unable to connect error.
- i was able to use Net view (Syntax: net view /Workgroup:WGNAME) and i can see Win98 + Win2k computers by there hostnames, on network was also XP, WIn7 and WIn10 machines in same Workgroup. With net view \\computername im able to see Win98 share from Windows 7 64bit. But on DOS machine i often getting - list call /Workgroup:XX list fo machines are not available (its unreliable at least on my network).
- When you run setup again and you have already MSClient in PATH, you can change setting..
- I tried to search for Password in plain text on whole disk, it seems that is not at least saved in plain text.. Probably it would be easy to crack it, but better than plain text.
- NET browse is working (at least sometimes) with Win98 + Win2k. Its working fine with Basic redictor version too. I tried same style for WinXP/Win7/Win10 nothing for now.
- Net use (for map shared folders on other modern machines) is reliable its working every time when i tested it.
- to load Netbeui driver, you need load NDISHLP driver to..

Setup text for redictor selection - extract:
MS CLT provides 2 redirector files. Basic and Full...
Basic - provides all standard workgroup functions, such connection, disconnecting, and browsing. It uses less memory and disk space that full redirector.
Full - Use full redirector if you need to logon to MS Windows NT or Lan Manager domain, or if you run programs that use advanced network functions, such name pipes (RuThaN: What the hell are advanced function and pipes?)

In read is this info: You must run the Network Client full redirector to have your user name and password validated by a Microsoft Windows NT Server or LAN Manager server.
When you select domain logon is settings, there is automatically selected Full redirector mode.


MS Client 3 patches:
- there 3 patches for MS client
- to install just copy patch to some empty directory run it, it will extract its file, you can delete original exe and copy new files to your MSclient directory
  • Netshare.exe - contains netshare.exe and netshare.txt - to make this working you need Share.exe (in MS Dos documentation is this: Installs file-sharing and locking capabilities on your hard disk.) which is part of MS-Dos 6.22 and MS-Dos 7.1 floppy installation (2 floppies), but its not part of Windows 98 Dos installation, so i have to copy it from MS-DOS 7.1 floppy installation.. I recommend to use MS-DOS 7.1 version, even with MS-DOS 6.2, its at least clean some Protocol not present message when is net initialize run (i dont know if there are other differences).
  • Nnet.exe - contains net.exe net.msg and neth.msg
  • WGL1049.exe - net.exe net.msg, neth.msg readme.txt
    - as you can see Nnet.exe and Wgl1049.exe both contain net.exe so you will have to choice which one you will to use, file form nnet is newer, but i looked on this tutorial. .. and wgl1049.exe net exe is used so i used it too.. Note this tutorial is not using netshar.exe patch at all, its not overwriting annything, so if you copy it too to MSclient, i will not broke annything. Using wgl1049 net.exe is needed when you want to share some folder from Dos machine with net share command.

Conventional Memory usage:
80 Kbytes when you are using the "Basic Redirector"
170 Kbytes when you are using the "Full Redirector"
+ NDIS driver, other XY KB
- its simply means not gaming, when these behemoths are loaded.. you need start networking, do networking stuff and reboot.. or unload / kill networking stuff (at present time i dunno if it is possible and how exactly to do it - more research needed)

Files in MS full client package and some explanation for them:
- lots of these doesnt have any help / i didn find any info, if you now for what they are for, pleas tell me..
  • addname.exe - NetBios internet name utility, you can add up to 6 names. Syntax is addname computername ipaddress .Help could be printed by addname ? Its probably something like host file (hostname to ip address maping when DNS is not working for some machines) for Netbios networking..
  • autoexec.exe - files which should be added to autoexec, file is regenerated by changing you MS client setup.exe settings, if they have effect on it, protocols etc..
  • config.sys - lines for config, only non typical is ifshlp.sys which is run in MS-DOS 7.1 regardless of config.sys setting (but its wrong one not compatible with MS Client so you need one from MS Client package), its adding 32 bit filesystem support to dos (FAT32) support, BTW im accessing to NFTS shared directories from Dos and i dont need any special NTFS drivers..
  • connect.dat - empty text file, i dunno what will added where, maybe you can save here some connection info, maybe networking driver mapping??
  • dhcp.prm - some binary file for dhcp
  • dnr.exe - dns names resolver for MS Client Stack
  • embsbfr.exe - from name is some ems buffer..
  • expand.exe - archive extraction utility which is part of installer, otherwise useless
  • hosts - host file same as in Windows, you can specify hostname for some ip addresses to make when easier to use (to remember)
  • ifshlp.sys - 32 bit driver for filesystems access needed for MS Client to work..
  • ipconfig - utility provides DHCP configuration information.
  • lmhost - host file for Netbios
  • ncdinfo.ini - empty text file, i dunno what could be saved here
  • ndishlp.sys - some driver, ndis mapper, probably main NDIS driver..
  • nemm.dos - Other driver, some programs need it, in file is MS DOS TCP/IP NEMM driver 1.0, i dunno what it is for..
  • net.exe - primary working exe to browse and use MS Client - network browing, network disk connection etc.. Net /? | more - print basic network commands for network usage, there lots of subcommands.
  • net.msg - message catalog probably for net.exe file, support file only.. unless you want to use funny message let it be (i didnt test if will still work if you will edit it)
  • netbind.com - binds the MAC and protocol drivers together and using the MAC protocol, determines the current linespeed (10Mbit/100Mbit / 1000Mbit dullex etc..)
  • neth.msg - other message catalog/list..
  • network.inf -some Windows for Workgroup 3.11 definitions, i dunno if it used by Dos client or is here for multi OS (DOS+Win 3.11) use..
  • networks - other host files for ip to hostname mapping, too many of them..
  • networks - something like modern hostfile for local networks (im not use what means this term)
  • nmtsr.exe
  • oem*.inf - some configuration files or there skeletons.. there added after some NDIS driver installing
  • nwlink.exe - Nowell networking protocol file (optimal), if dont have Netware network you dont need it
  • ping.exe - classic ping utility, supprort dot syntax ip address and dns names.. for this stack, dns is not working with Win7/Win10 hostname, unless are added into host files (so they have to have static ip addresses - you have to set in your router or modern OSes)..
  • protman.dos - protocol (multi) handler driver
  • protman.exe - protocol manager
  • protocol.002 + 003... - probably some backups of protocol.ini
  • protocol.ini - main settings of all protocol and NIC adapter, some per protocol setting are in other files..
  • rascopy.bat - some batch for Remote Access with Workgroup Add-on (Win 3.11), i dunno know that this Remote Access could do
  • readme.txt - main MS Client readme file
  • services - its text file, where is defined which programs is using which TCP / UPD port.. Like FTP-21 etc, Telnet 23
  • setup.exe - MS Client setup utility, could be run after installation to add / remote different NIC driver, protocols etc.. Note if you manually edit these *.ini file, something in setup could be broken and run setup could broke it.. My advice is only you setup once, or until custom editing.
  • setup.inf - list of filenames for setup utility, unless from user point of view..
  • sockets.exe - Microsoft Sockets driver - i dunno now for what exactly it good for, as i get is sockets are used for some OS independent data transfers..
  • System.ini - other configuration file - here could be defined username, workgroup name, here you enable file and printer sharing, loaded network protocol driver, type of redictor etc..
  • tcpdrv.dos - MS TCP driver or Microsoft TCP/IP.
  • tcptsr.exe - start MS-DOS TCP networking, loads the TCP/IP Microsoft kernel and initializes the network card via DHCP.
  • tcputils.ini - tcp setting, dns server (=your router) could be added here, you can select default protocol for some programs..
  • tinyrfc.exe
  • umb.com - its shoutcut for network UMB handler - but still dont know that it is
  • vbapi.386 - some windows only file, maybe Visual Basic api for Networking..
  • vsockets.386 - other WIndows only file
  • wcsetup.inf - other list of filenames.. maybe check what setup need to have to work
  • wfwsys.cfg - some binary file
  • w* - 3x dll file - Windows only, maybe for WIn3/ 95 networking, i didnt tested any of that.
  • *.pwl files, crypted passwords and saved shares info, to remove user just delete his *.pwl file there are per use, shares can be delete through net share ShareName /Delete

These lines should be added to Autoexec (TCP protocols settings / full redirector), lets assume that MS Client is installed /copied to C:\DRIVERS\MSCLTNE2\:
Code: Select all
REM ADD MS CLIENT directory to present already defined PATH variable
Set PATH=%PATH%;C:\DRIVERS\MSCLTNE2
C:\DRIVERS\MSCLTNE2\net initialize
C:\DRIVERS\MSCLTNE2\netbind.com
C:\DRIVERS\MSCLTNE2\umb.com
C:\DRIVERS\MSCLTNE2\tcptsr.exe
C:\DRIVERS\MSCLTNE2\tinyrfc.exe
C:\DRIVERS\MSCLTNE2\nmtsr.exe
C:\DRIVERS\MSCLTNE2\emsbfr.exe
REM Net start is last line, probably has to be.
C:\DRIVERS\MSCLTNE2\net start

* LazyBrowDog - recommend to rem umb and emsbfr lines, as far as i tested, i think that MS Client is working fine without them


mTCP how to make it working + info:
- Dosbox only steps - for Gulikoza (2009) and Ykhwong Daum SVN builds (2015).. HAL9000 build (2010) (thx mbbrutman)
- you need to install WinPcap utility (on Windows) to handle part of networking, i can say anything about MacOS and Linux, but there are probably some solutions too
- edit Dosbox.conf:
Code: Select all
     
# Enable networking
ne2000=true
nicbase=300
#NIC IRQ, Dosbox default is 3, but i was more successfull with IRQ9
nicirq=9
# Mac address should be unique for every machine at least in you network, you can use every value from 0-F, at every place of address..
macaddr=AC:DE:48:88:99:AA
#For First run realni=list add value list check Dosbox info windows output for number for your NICs and select physical nic used for internet networking
#realnic=list
# Assign you nic number
realnic=6

-- end of Dosbox only steps--
- Find your network card name, after that its Dos packet driver, if exist.. If doesnt you can try driver for other card of from same manufacturer, or ODI driver + ODI shim - details are above..
- start it, there is usually some parameter for IRQ, try IRQ 3 or 9, usually is parameter for it 0x60 (IRQ3) and 0x61 (IRQ9)
- For Dosbox use NE2000.com driver.
- set nework variables
- they are defined by MTCPCFG variable - which is path to configuration file (ie set MTCPCFG=C:\1Utils\mTcp\config.cfg ), for basic networking you need to set only setup variable at the end of file, starting IPADDR line, at the top is hostname line - it should be also unique in your network for every machine.
- your can add MTCPCFG to Autoexec.bat, or create some standalone bat to start Network, when is needed, example of such file:
- after that you run packet driver + mTCP dphc,exe and that is all:
Code: Select all
REM ne2000 (Dosbox NIC) packet driver example, has to be in same directory or in path
REM 0x60 - IRQ3 - IRQ9- 0x61
ne2000 0x60
REM network details variable
set MTCPCFG=C:\1Utils\mTcp\config.cfg
REM DPHC line need MCT.. variable
REM start DHCP, mTCP directory has to be in PATH variable
dhcp
REM If it print good news.. network ping / Arachne browser would work..

- optimal setup - is assign static ip address for you network card, in you router management
- try ping google.com or similar, you get response time, no time, its working for you. Start ftp client / internet browsers etc..

Windows Ftp clients:
- some client dont really support empty username /password connections
  1. Total Commander - press CRTL+F define connection and connect - tested with mTCP FTP server
  2. Free Commander - tested with mTCP FTP server - use topmenu - Tools - new FTP connection, you can comeback to already defined connection through adressbar edit and "ftp://" , if there is some shortcut tell me..
  3. Filezilla -be aware in installing package is some optimal adware.

Windows FTP servers
  • Quick and Easy FTP server - light package for testing, really easy to use - run - setup few parameter - start and connect.. - I tested it with mTCP FTP client - its working.
  • Filezilla - i had in the past problem with security certificate generation / renewal for SFPT, its not user friendly.

FTP server with mTCP
- pure Dos machine is server - you only started some process and you have to got to other pc to transfer files with some FTP client (above)
- you need to set FTPPASS.txt file, fptsrv_password parameters, has to be enabled (remove #) and patch should be adjusted, other settings are really optimal log and timeout look nice.
- FTPpass sample is in Samples directory, its quite long configuration file..
- exchange brutman password, for your username, password // Not use something which you are using often its just plain text - no security at all.. Im not security guy at all, i usually hate security stuff, but FTP is probably worst security hole even on local network, SFTP and crypted password / key etc.. would be much better..
- start ftp server with ftpsrv command
- good results should print mTCP FTPSRV starting..
- i dont know certainly if it is mTCP FTPserver or Total commander / Free Commander FTP clients limitation (with high probability is mTCP problem, error is bad path or filename i thing 550 error code..), but you can transfer files with long Windows names, they should be renamed before. Some auto handling of these would be nice.. especially when in Dos you can used Doslfn for long filenames support. Some inbuild filename trim or other work around would be nice.
- usage limitation this FTP server is not designed to run in background all the time, how you could be used from WIndows service enviroment, you only can transfer files, when ftpserver is executed (active program) and you looking on its info screen..
-i was able to transfer with FreeCommander 8GB of data without any need to reconnect (after i removed long files, with them its failing and client can continue)

Nic compatibility section testing/ info:

Proven (personally tested by some Vogons member) NIC+ packet driver with mTCP (no shim):
- Intel 1000 GT Gbit PCI - tested by RuThaN, with mTCP FTP server transfer - i reached 12 MB/s receiving speed and 16 MB/s transfer speed, my HDD is capable regarding of Rayers Rawspeed test (in my drivers and utils package- search for drivers text post is quite long) 35 MB/s (but i is big block sequential test) bu still HDD was probably no limit, because games usually have more bigger files than lots of smaller one (yeah there are exceptions but files are usually HDD friedly bigger than 4KB ones)
- NE2000 (Dosbox and lots of older NICs are compatible with this standard) tested by RuThaN and others..
- realtek 8101L integrated on MB, working with RTL8139 packet driver
- Vmware Workstation 12 Dos 6.22/7.1 Machines NIC - i have to use 0x61 for IRQ with packet driver and with inMTC config file (vector is at the top, default is 0x60), used packet driver was pcntpk.com with int=0x61 parameter. Its AM PCnet virtual network card, NICscan reporting it as AM 79c970 [PCnet32 Lance]. When i had physical and virtual on same Core i7 4770S machine, transfer speed wasnt great ~1MB/s for mTCP FTP server transfer i suspect used packet driver driver as limiter.
- Realtek 8029 with PCIPKT.COM reported by sklawz here
- realtek 8139 with RTSPKT.COM reported by sklawz

Proven (personally tested by some Vogons member) NIC+ packet driver with mTCP (with ODI shim only):
Working:
- Vmware AM PCnet III virtual machine with ODI shim (odipkt) with int 0x60 - working
- PCI Intel 1000GT card with E1000ODI.COM + ODIPKT.COM
- VirtualBox - AM PCnet III fast NIC - pcntnw.com + odipkt - i have use vector 0x61(97) parameter instead of default 0x60 (96)
- Via Rhine II - integrated NIC - working with -w -n 0x61 parameters

Unproven NIC+ packet driver with mTCP (with ODI shim only):
- Broadcom 5721 PCI-E + X58 - its not working, shim is running but i cant get DHCP working..
- Broadcom 5721 PCI-E + Z97 - exactly same problem as with X58
- Realtek 8168 on Z97 - same problem with other not working ODI shim +NICS..

Proven (personally tested by some Vogons member) NIC+ packet driver with mTCP (with NDIS shim only), that mean in other worlds MS Client Min setup:
- Virtualbox - Am PC net III
- Broadcom 5721 PCI-E + Z97 - not netbind freeze, mTCP give name ip address - game, getway is fine, but DNS - is not, its not local, but form my ISP! (hmm MS Client is doing it too).. and i cant to ping anything im getting You DHCP lease expires in less that 3600 second . Pleas run DHCP.. When i set DNS - Nameserver manually and dont run DHCP.exe its running fine. On modern os its fine.
- Realtek 8168(Gigabit) integrated
- Broadcom 5764M integrated on X58 board - working with B57.dos with filesize - 59216 bytes

Unproven NIC+ packet driver with mTCP (with NDIS shim only):
- Broadcom 5721 PCI-E + X58 chipset - its not working.. after netbind start freezes.. shim is running but i cant get DHCP working.

MS Client minimal package proven - working NICs
Virtualbox AM.. Pcnet Fast III
- with VirtualBox AM... Fast III adapter its working (used 0x60 in mTCP config file)- there is not netbind freeze, used EMS mode
- mTCP is working fine
- using newer version (11) of package driver

MS Client minimal package - unproven not working NICs
X58+Broadcom 5721M PCIe NIC - i know, i know that my modern X58 + 6 core CPU + PCI-E NIC is not best setup for compatibility, but i made almost anything else in Dos working on it and i its my primary machine for all retro + future capability as bonus, so i started here.. My other machines have NICs with native packet drivers, so even if would make it working there is would be good only for debug purposes and general info.. But because i failed with X58 machine, i will have to test it probably on these machine too..
- When i start Netbind i starting to get freezes few seconds long.. Same card (i mean same type, not exactly same card, in theory there could be different bios) on Z97 MB is working fine.
- I was testing in EMS mode, but in realmode - i got complete freeze during Netbind.com loading, so some info on internet im not first who has netbind freezes problems.. not i didnt find any details
- Both versions of package driver (V9) + V11 tested is the same, mTCP getting only timeouts..

MS Client Full - Proven NIC (for anything with Ndis *.DOS should work, but these are proven):
- Realtek 8168(Gigabit) integrated, i used rtgnd.dos driver.
- Broadcom 5721M on Z97 board
- Broadcom 5764M integrated with X58 - B57.dos driver size - 59216
- Vmware NIC..
- Virtualbox AMxxx NICs

MS Client Full - unproven NIC):
- Broadcom 5721M on X58

Netboodisk Proven NIC
- PCI Intel 1000GT card
- realtek 8101L integrated on MB
- realtek 8168 (Gigabit) integrated on MB
- Virtualbox Dos 7.1 - PCnet PC II NIC
- Virtualbox Dos 7.1 - PCnet Fast III NIC

Netbootdisk unproven - not working NIC
- Broadcom 5721M PCie + X58 chipset MB - stuck at umb.com loading, its some binary from 1996, when i remove it, im stuck on next step (tcptsr.exe), when i have to get IP address etc
- Broadcom Net Extremene 5764M PCI-E integrated on X58 MB - full network stack is started, but when i use ping - i got system freeze (i tried to change b57.dos for that with size 59216 which is working with MS min client its the same.)
- Vmware AM PCnet - its not able to find any NIC and there is no setting at least without .vmx editing (i didnt checked it) to change emulated NIC type..
- Virtualbox Dos 7.1 - Intel Pro/1000 MT server - adapter not found
- Virtualbox Dos 7.1 - Intel Pro/1000 T server - adapter not found
- Virtualbox Dos 7.1 - Intel Pro/1000 MT desktop - adapter not found

---end of NIC compatibility section-----

List of programs compatibile with mTCP stack (report them pleas):
- Arachne 1.97 - Dos internet browser
- Its working with network programs from Netbootdisk (at least some)
TBD -

List of programs non compatible with mTCP stack (report them pleas):
- Trumpets TCP programs..
- test DosVNC (1999) - i dont know if problem is software itself or in mTCP, but i wasnt able to connect to Windows 10 machine with TightVNC server, was able to connect to its port by Telnet, so probably mTCP was fine in package are some WATcom net library, i dunno if is compatible with mTCP..

Because i hit maximum post lengh limit. Post continue in post #2.
Last edited by ruthan on 2018-11-23 @ 08:20, edited 458 times in total.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.

Re: Dos / Dosbox TCPIP ethernet networking guide - WIP, help needed

Postby ruthan » 2018-8-13 @ 20:06

continue of post #1:

DOS/ Windows to Windows connection/filesharing testing with MS-Client full redirector:
- tell me if you new how to improve compatibility.
- i assume that on all machines us same username and password for it and WinXp is 32bit version of SP3 and Win 7 SP1 and Win 10 64 bit. Windows 98 SP3, simply last versions.
- tested it with physical WIn7 and Win10 machines and Vmware Workstation 12.5.9 Wi98/Win2k/WinXP machine on Windows 10 machine, Dos was tested on Virtualbox (5.2.18) and Vmware 12.5.9 virtual machines running on WIn 10 machine.
- if you have info about Win 3.11 and Win95 to modern OS compatibility just tell me, i will add the data, im personally ignoring these. Windows 3xx never was good for gaming and Windows 98 just better version of Win95 from my experience.
- from results => that best OS for Unirversal file server for Microsoft DOS to Win 10 64bit networking is Windows 7 64bit, because you can access to it from every other OS and its still supported fast and modern (64bit), you probably cas use some Linux networking too, but its not my cup of tea and remote desktop is not working there out of box, make Teamviewer working without use connection is additional work and can be reused for Windows gaming without other fiddling (virtualization / Wine etc).
- ping from DOS machines to modern machine is problem, if ping not working it doesnt mean that net use and file sharing with hostname sharing will not work - i often met such situation / behavior (for example with DOS to XP Sharing)
- for now im able only read Freedos share from Windows machine, but not MS-DOS 6.22 / 7.1, there is small change that it is because Virtual Box /Vmware differences (update: no problem has to be elsewhere), but its working on physical machines (at least with MS-DOS 7.1)

    - format client machine / target machine
  • DOS (TPC only or TCP/IPX/NETBUI) to Win98 - working, Freedos +MSDOS 6.22 + 7.1
  • DOS (TCP) to Win2k - working, Freedos + MSDOS 6.22 +7.1
  • DOS (TCP) to WinXP - working, machine is not files in net GUI, but i managed to connect to it through net use x: \\ComputerName\Folder Freedos + MSDOS 6.22 + 7.1tested.
  • Dos (TCP) to Win7 - its working, but you need make change with Windows 7 security, after that net use X: \\computername\folder is working . I had to add hostname directly in to MS Client host files, because i wasnt able to ping that machine by hostname and for msclient is not possible to use IP address you need hostname.. I dunno if needed but make Win98 to Win7 - probably helped me to get it working. Tested with Freedos + MSDOS 6.22 + 7.1 Here is Lazy dogs tutorial how prepare modern Windows machine. I had once Error 8 not enough memory connection problem with ultimate machines, restart Windows 7 machine (Dos machine wasnt restart), helped, just for info i had 397 KB of free conventional mem. on machine when it is working, i had 450KB on other machien, when i had that problem.
  • Dos (?, probably TCP) to Win8 - LazyBrownDog tutorial show it as working, but wasnt able even ping my WIn7 or Win10 machine with use of hostmane (mTCP giving me error resolving name) (ip address is working fine) for DOs machine - i try to connect error 53.. Maybe is problem with Windows firewall (but i strongly doubt it).
  • Win98 to DOS (TCP) - working with Freedos 1.2) + MS Dos 7.1, im able to read and write to shares without passwords, when i trying to access password protected share, im getting, incorrect password error, i quite sure that password is right.
  • Win98 to Win2K - working
  • Win98 to WinXP (using simple file sharing) - its working fine, through run dialog \\MachineName, i see share and can work with it.
  • WIn98 to Win7 - There is tutorial other tutorial. I tested it working.. For access use UNC - \\CoputerName\Share . You user has to have defined password and you have to have same users on both machines. I dont thing that whole users and public folder is needed. I have problem that i start Win98 - i log only in computer, so i have logout and second login is network one.
  • Win98 to Win10 - its get same as with Win7, Remote desktop is still working!
  • NT4 to Win7 - working, there is security workaround thx to Chinny22
  • Win2k to DOS (TCP) - working through net use x: \\ComputerNames\Share, if share is without password, but its read only, when i tried to add password, i have password prompt.. but i always got that its incorrect.. With parameter /Full without password i could write too.
  • Win2K to Win98 - working
  • WIn2K to WinXP - working
  • Win2K to Win7 - working
  • Win2K to Win10 - working!
  • WinXp to DOS (TCP) - working, but i didnt worked at start through \\MachineName\Share.. i have to use net use x: \\MachineName\Share aftet that it started to work, tested with Freedos / MSDOS 7.1(TCP), aftet than \\MachineName'\Share started to work. Im able to read from shares, when i use /FULL: parameter for networking creating im able to write to.. When i try to create share with password for writing, im unable to connected - specified password is not correct.
  • WinXP to WIn98 - its working you just write password, im using simple file sharing on XP for the test.
  • WinXP to Win2K - working fine
  • WinXP to Win7 - working fine, Remote desktop working too..
  • WinXP to Win10 - working fine, remote desktop working fine
  • Win7 to Win98 - there is tutorials how to do it 12 3. Youn need new NTLM2 network client it could be find here - search for Active Directory Client Extensions for Windows 9x/M.. Tested, working.
  • Win7 to Win2k - working fine
  • Win7 to WinXP - working fine
  • Win7 to Win10 - working fine
  • Win 10 to Dos (MSclient TCP) - Working with MS-DOS 7.1, net use X: \\ComputerName\Directory , i worked only read only (when i try to create new file i get funny error - Error 0x8000FFF - Catastrophic failure), i tried to create shares with /FULL:password and /READ:password parameters, but wanst able to connect to such shares - when i put username and password i get: The user name or password is incorrect. When i tried net share Directory=C:\Temp /Full: im able to connect to directory, but im still unable to write something here, error is the same. I can ping Dos machine from WIn10 by hostname.
  • WIn10 to Win98 - i get error message that is not possible, because on Windows 98 is running SMB1 its unsafe. On Windows 98 could be installed Teamviewer old version 6 and you can connect with more version with it and transfer files. There are tutorial for Win7 above, so perhaps, they could work for WIn10 too, you tested it tell me.
  • Win10 to Win2K - same problem as with Win98, SMB1 unsafe..
  • Win10 to WInXP (with simple files sharing, i didn test other option) - same problem as with Win98, work around Teamviewer
  • Win10 to Win7 - working fine

Questions / todo, problems to solve (answered things moved in other sections- slowly..):

1.We are able to make Networking working in Dosbox Gulikoza ana Ynk.. -Daum SVN build, HAL9000 build (thx mbbrutman), there is some NE2000 section, but i dont know how to make vanilla or other build working, because there not NIC definition section and when i tried that from build where it is working, parameters were ignored.. If there are other compatible Dosbox builds or way to make it happen in other without additional programming just tell me.
2. How to make Dosbox guest / hosting windows machine FTP server / client transfer . I wasnt able to do it, ping Dosbox environment form real machine or vice versa ((yeah i know you can bypass it with modern OS copy/paste/networking outside of Dosbox)) There is maybe some NAT or trick needed. I tried localhost ip - 127.0.0.1, same at network 10.x.x.x address different Windows ftp servers / clients.
5. Arachne - speed tuning, i have PCI 1 Gbit NIC, Core 2 Duo E6600, 64MB ram, default is slow.. TCPIP stack or Arachne need some tuning Dosbox Arachne is much faster. So raw HW power is there.. but software has design flaws (on MS-DOS, packet drivers or Application itself part) or need speed tuning, or Arachne itself need some some tuning.. Update: Regarding of this test Arachne is quite slow even for single file download, that is shame, i would say bad code.
6. Is there graphics Dos FTP client? Its annoying to use are dost machine only as target for file transfers (FTP server), yes there are FTP clients, but there are command based, if im not working and its not user friendly experience..
8.Is there some universal packet Dos driver to try, for NIC without packet drivers from its manufacturer? I know no big chance, but stupid not to ask.. => There is only NE2000 which is for obsolete 10 Mbit cards, but some drivers from some manufactures are working also for other cards (info by Chinny22)
10. I found this: You could use a FTP server on DOS which runs in the background (as Datalight Sockets, which is explained here and a tool to map a FTP server to a drive letter (for Windows f.i.: netdrive) to integrate your DOS machine into a network. GNU/Linux can even mount FTP servers without an extra tool.
11. How to unload packet drivers / ODI drivers and mTCP stack to reclaim convetional memory? I think that is possible, i didnt too much experimenting with it - TBD..
12. Its possible to unload MS minimal client drivers/utils, to reclaim memory? I tried to run Nebind /? i get nothing.. protman the same and *.Dos is not possible to run at all, so it dont look good..
14. Make Broadcom 5721M PCI-E - working its NIC which im using a lot in retro projects - i didnt find native packet drivers, i got big freezing when i tried few Ndis drivers.. and with ODI mTCP is unable to connect, but i will keep trying..
17. What is Domain in MS Client Dos world, does it mean full modern Domain controller company stuff, or just some modern NT+ computer in network or some modern clever router?
chinny22
:If you know what Active Directory is then think of this as a Domain, but basically its a central database of users and what they are allowed to access.
21. Some process / driver killer for DOS for programs which had no unload option - probably some from network stacks - simply something like Task manager from WIndows or kill from Linux / Unix..
22. Which tools except filesharing is part of Novell Netware solution, is this compatible with other Dos Networking utilities? Could you run Arachne / SSH / FTP with it?
23. ODI shims not working often with mTCP, where is problem? I need mTCP some improvements, or generic ODI shim (its quite old 1991)? I dont believe that ODI driver itself would be released as not working.. I suspect it has something to do with PCI-E bus, maybe they are only for PCI or something like that.
Chinny22: Netware's main focus was always file and print sharing which IPX protocol is still more efficient at then TCP on a LAN. TCP when the internet was not common. It wasn't until Netware 5 released in 1998 did it have any proper support for TCP/IP any by then NT4 was the popular choice unless you had a complex network.

Other knowledge sources.. :
  • LazyBrownDOg - FreeDos MS Client 3 install guide - MS Client setup tutorial + second part + how to set MS Client + mTCP + WATTP together.. Also there is how to add DNS in TCPUTILS.INI .There is even FreeDos part. PC_CARD - in code block means your NIC name. Its almost (few used settings are unexplained) ultimate tutorial - its working with these images (in VirtualBOX + Vmware) for me, i never was able to access to Virtual MS-DOS 6.22 / 7.1 machine share, with physical and same settings its working for me.
    Here and here is some more info is part you to set modern windows for Dos access..
    There is also info, that NET view is not working across machines at least if settings recommended by this tutorial, but its only view thing, net use is working fine and that is what is need for sharing..
    You can download whole preinstalled Virtualbox images here: Freedos + MS client , Enhanced image - FreeDOs + MS Client + mTCP + Novell TCP/IP + Trumpet + WATTCP +Arachne + ssh (i didnt find it) + Siouux Webserver, ntool, rmenu + others.
    Discussion about this tutorial is here. // Harvested
  • Netware boot disk - but it support other networking methods too - i didnt read / hardvested it yet.. I dunno if it could be easily converted to hdd installation, that is most important thing.. nobody wants to reboot, when you reboot can boot to modern Windows / Linux / MacOS for proper networking..
  • Vogons Dos + Win 3.1 networking thread - harvested.
  • Short tutorial how to share data in Virtualbox Dos machine, imho there some typos in codes..
  • Some special packet driver Windows NT/2000/XP to run Dos networking applications, i mTCP pdf is one page about it - not harvested yet
  • MBrutman pdf about mTCP - long (133 pages) - first ~25 are most important, rest is description of individual networking program - you probably dont need all of them, there 2 pages how to create debug log, not hardvested yet
  • MSClient has quite long readme file - not hardvested yet - point 26 is interesting, but i never was able access that Advanced menu, which is described within.. Or its depends on NIC and my NICs dont have such parameters.
  • Microsofts MS Client 3.0 Page - there is how to create network start-up disk with WinNT4, otherwise there already known things nothing fancy.. - harvested
  • https://www.schkerke.com/wps/2016/12/hy ... ms-dos-vm/ - Hyper-V DOS machine with MS Client - description of some MS Client programs and other info - harvested
  • Short how to connection from DOS machine to Linux one with SSHby LazyBrownDog.
  • IPX wrapper for modern OSes
  • In Norton Utilities is some DriverMapper tool - which claims to connect network drive through IPX and Netbios..
  • There is MS-DOS 6.22 Supplementary disk - which claims has some updated Networking files - i dont tested it yet, but from notes it look like that these are native MS-DOS 6.22 to add if you upgraded MS-DOS 6.22 from MS-DOS 5 or earlier

If you want to support my projects with something else that with your knowledge:
- i would mind if someone would donate Aureal Vortex 2 and PCI Graphics card with DVI connector (i thing that there were at least few Geforce cards for PCI), PCI 3COM Gibabit NIC - i killed mine year ago
- if could donate me through Paypal, but i accept only 1 or 2$ donations, unless you are super rich (have own house, car and new computer) sen money on ruthan at email.cz Paypal account

Disclaimer:
As you probably find out, im not good with letters+grammar in every language, i never had brain for that, i was always better with numbers and analytic, sorry. If something is not clear, just ask.

Guides for responses:
When you address something form Question section pleas use issue number from list (numbers are hardcoded so, they are future proof), thanks.

Thanks all people who helped / are helping with this project!
The knowledge must flow!


Test message: Posted from pure Dos Arachne, i865 + Core 2 + PCI Intel 1000 GT NIC.
Last edited by ruthan on 2018-11-21 @ 19:42, edited 35 times in total.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.

Re: Dos / Dosbox TCPIP ethernet networking guide - WIP, help needed

Postby mbbrutman » 2018-8-14 @ 01:23

Hi. I'm the author of mTCP. Some quick notes:

  • http://www.brutman.com/Dos_Networking/ explains the theory of DOS networking using packet drivers.
  • The NE2000 packet driver required for DOSBox is not part of mTCP, but can be found here: http://www.brutman.com/mTCP/NE2000.COM . That link is right in the mTCP PDF documentation, in the DOSBox section.
  • It is more correct to say that mTCP is a set of TCP/IP programs for DOS. It is not a TSR that you can load and then have other programs use. Which is why Trumpet TCP for DOS doesn't work with mTCP; Trumpet is a TSR and programs designed to use that TSR, while mTCP is just programs with the TCP/IP part built into them.
  • FTP has always sent passwords in the clear. On a private network this is not much of an issue.
  • The mTCP FTPServer does not run in the background.
  • All of the networking utilities are different because different people wrote them at different times. When I chose to write mTCP I explicitly rejected using Trumpet's TSR and I did not know about WATTCP. mTCP is closer to WATTCP in design than Trumpet, but as you note they are all different. (mTCP is the newest of the group and probably works the best against modern standards, except for SSH which it will not do.)

I'm using an old HAL9000 build of DOSBox .. it is good to hear that other builds are supporting Ethernet networking now.
mbbrutman
Member
 
Posts: 184
Joined: 2006-3-12 @ 03:15

Re: Dos / Dosbox TCPIP ethernet networking guide - WIP, help needed

Postby ruthan » 2018-8-14 @ 11:37

Hi Michael,
its great honor have such expert and sort of celebrity here.

I tried to incorporate how knowledge from your post and links as possible to main post, i also added some link from your Additional resource section which i yet had to read. Also added some more questions. There are also need lists to populate, i bet that you can help with it.

In next steps of research, im mainly interested in 2 main topics:
A) Make ODI / NDIS drivers SHIM magic packet driver to work my X58(ICH) machine with PCIe Broadcom 5721 card - its nice cheap card still available on eBay - its working with everything from Win98 to WIndows 10 / Linux / MacOS (could be probably also easily added) because exist for other Broadcom 57xx card and it would be nice to add Pure DOS support to.
B) Access from Dos to modern Windows share folder and vice versa, if is possible.. it is not possible is still good to know. I could share them through FTP server, but im trying to find alternative to FTP client / server solution.
Could it be done with mTCP+ additional programs or i need other TCPIP stack for that?
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.

Re: Dos / Dosbox TCPIP ethernet networking guide - WIP, help needed

Postby mbbrutman » 2018-8-14 @ 14:08

For file sharing ... I'm not sure how well this works anymore, but you should be able to setup Microsoft LANMAN on a DOS PC to share files to a Samba share. I'm not sure how Windows 10 works with the old DOS client but I've been able to coax Linux into serving files.

There is also NFS; the NFS clients for PCs are fairly old now, and I'm not sure how compatible they are.

There are programs that give the illusion of a shared drive with a Linux PC. The one that I know of I won't name here because I don't think people should be using it; it's had some significant bugs. (I'm a bit paranoid about not corrupting data.) There are other such programs I am sure.
mbbrutman
Member
 
Posts: 184
Joined: 2006-3-12 @ 03:15

Re: Dos / Dosbox TCPIP ethernet networking guide - WIP, help needed

Postby gdjacobs » 2018-8-14 @ 19:46

If someone already has a DOSBox network setup, it'd be great to know if the Crynwr NE drivers work for NE2k cards.
User avatar
gdjacobs
l33t++
 
Posts: 6443
Joined: 2015-11-03 @ 05:51
Location: The Great White North

Re: Dos / Dosbox TCPIP ethernet networking guide - WIP, help needed

Postby ruthan » 2018-8-14 @ 22:12

Hmm, i had problem that Dosbox mTCP networking stopped working (DHCP wasnt able to connect i get only timeouts), otherwise networking was fine, internet was fine, i had to restart router to make it working again.

Im using these settings:
Code: Select all
IPADDR 10.0.0.17
NETMASK 255.255.255.0
GATEWAY 10.0.0.138
NAMESERVER 10.0.0.138
LEASE_TIME 86400

It seems to that IPADDR was updated automatically.. I wonder were could be problem. Should i add some static router for Dosbox mac adress in router? Or is problem that LEASE_TIME - 24 hours? Router is Zyxel - ZyXEL VMG8924-B30A.

I have tried this broadcom B57xx ODI driver from http://www.georgpotthast.de/sioux/packet.htm
http://www.georgpotthast.de/sioux/pktdrv/b57.zip

It seems to that NIC is found and card is loaded, 1000 Mbps speed is negotiated (picture), but im not able to make it working with mTCP.
It seems that i recognize some packet driver but dhcp initialization end with timeout.
- I know that driver packaged its using Novel ODI, but regarding some info what i read is this ODI driver are cample Nowell stuff + TCP stuff. Question is should mTCP capable of working with ODI drivers and its odipkt.com - SHIM?
- Im starting driver by included start.bat, but didn found documents to 2 magic used parameters for odipkt.com, start.bat include this:
Code: Select all
lsl.com
b57.com
odipkt.com 0 96

Odipkt magic codes are described here.

But i still dont understand where to get right second value, its 96(0x60) good for my machine, it is not explained in article above, should i experiment with other values?

gdjacobs wrote:If someone already has a DOSBox network setup, it'd be great to know if the Crynwr NE drivers work for NE2k cards

I added to NE2000 which im using to my Drivers and Utils package- search for "last version(eurotime)" text to find download link - driver is in folder ETHERDVR\DOSBOX.. i dont really remember where i downloaded it, you can compare it with cry.. one.

Update: I also have problem with mTCP to get internal DNS names working, external from internet are find about i can to get working names from Windows 7+ machines, i can ping them.. and in windows network is ping {hostname} working fine.
Netbookdisk has same problem.

I also added lots of info to main post, im still in searching for basic info phase.. I didnt yet tried NDIS driver solution.. With ODI im stuck as is on top of this post..
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.

Re: Dos / Dosbox TCPIP ethernet networking guide - WIP, help needed

Postby ruthan » 2018-8-16 @ 13:34

I have tested Broadcom 5721 with alternative shim - Caldera one its the same as with ODIPKT.COM v3.1 from Dan Lanciani.

Here is driver installation output looks fine:

Code: Select all
Lsl:
Novell Link Support Layer for DOS ODI  v2.20 (960401)
(c) Copyright 1990 - 1996, by Novell, Inc. All rights reserved.

BUFFERS 6 1600
The configuration file used was "D:\TEMP\!NEW\!NET\ETHERDVR\BRD57XX\NET.CFG".
Max Boards 4, Max Stacks 4
Buffers 6, Buffer size 1600 bytes, Memory pool 0 bytes.

------------
b57:
Broadcom Ethernet DOS ODI Driver v9.12 (060822)
Copyright (C) 2000-2006, Broadcom Corporation. All rights reserved.
Device - Broadcom NetXtreme Gigabit Ethernet, MAC Address - 001018111307
LineSpeed - 1000Mbps FullDuplex, IRQ - 3, BusNum - 15, DevNum - 0

Board 1, Frame ETHERNET_II, LSB Mode
-----------------------------------------
pkt2odi:

MLID Board 1; Frame ID 0x2
Installing packet driver at INT 0x69
Packet driver installed.


After that i set mTCP variable to vector 0x69 and start mTCP dphc, but again getting only timeouts :(

Update: I made ODI working, at least with Vmware virtual machine and AMD NIC, so at least my procedure how to make ODI working is right one.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.

Re: Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs TCPIP ethernet networking guide - WIP, help needed

Postby ruthan » 2018-8-17 @ 20:15

I almost read all articles which i found for my research and it seems that i even in comparison to other retro stuff they are outdated and i nowhere find anything about networking with new OSes (except FTP client / server which is running everywhere).
I would say im still in middle (reading almost done, done basic testing done, now will come hammer time..) of my researching and lots of testing is before me.. i will certainly hit new articles during research, but still i expected more.

Todo:
  1. Make some NDis shim to work with mTCP - done, success
  2. Make MS Client minimal install working on some machine done, success, but it doesnt to anything less that enable to run TCPIP stack (for example mTCP)
  3. Make full blown MS Client to work without Netbook disk by myself - done, success, i used NT domain option during installation im not sure it was right one, but it seems to be working.. I have basic installation too, but i didnt yet tested, if it have some effect on cross OS sharing compatibility. You can switch in setup.exe from basic to full redictor were quickly..
  4. Test modern OS compatibility with full blown MS Client - was once able see work with Win98 shared folder.. done, partly successfully
  5. Try to copy some MS Client Full utilities to Minimal install and check if they are working, if yes MS Client Min - to full solution would be scaleable.. Yeah i now that you could still can REM some MS Client full line is autoexec.. - Done
  6. Add results to guide - Done..
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.

Re: Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos+Win98 up to Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Postby ruthan » 2018-8-29 @ 23:08

I finished, my intial research scope. I revised whole first + second posts. Lots of interesting info here, now i would need help from others to add more knowledge, there are still lots of issues open.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.

Re: Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos+Win98 up to Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-08 @ 11:05

I just moved DOS NIC compatability info to online sheet and new updates would be here:
https://docs.zoho.com/sheet/published.d ... b490889d49
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.

Re: Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos+Win98 up to Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Postby kjliew » 2018-11-13 @ 02:26

I hate to spoil your fun.

To be frank, DOS Ethernet support is lame and fragile, and I guest that was part of the reason Novell Netware failed miserably compared to WinNT and UNIX. Back in those days, when every PC was guaranteed to have LPT and COM port, LapLink or FastLynx file transfer over LPT/COM was the best.

With today's HDD capacity, I would just have a small partition (I used 384MiB) to host a small Linux as emergency and rescue OS. I learned this solution from PING (Partimage Is Not Ghost) and later learned to use live-build to create my own Linux out from Debian. So this gives me support for any Ethernet controllers from Intel, Broadcom, Realtek to QCA, and ability to access all the major popular filesystems (fat/exfat/ext4/ntfs) and a much nicer fbcon than the DOS 80x25 prompt and bash shell. Unfortunately, no WiFi support yet, but should be doable and this remains on my research interests.
kjliew
Member
 
Posts: 431
Joined: 2004-1-08 @ 03:03

Re: Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos+Win98 up to Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-13 @ 06:02

Whole point is not to have to reboot, if your card working in DOS its good enough for quick file transfers.

Yes Linux has small size footprint if using some feature shaved distro and lots of old machine stuff was slowly removed from kernel in last years, i dunno what are now minimal specs? Win 98 or WinXP could be still better choice.
Im using both, for me Linux has advantage that boot usually fine, when i using some temporary testing hardware, otherwise its equivalent of Windows explorer sucks regardless of distro (i prefer Mint), Midnight commander vs. Total commander sucks, GUI its slower than with XP on same machine. Samba access to Windows shares often not working without reasonable error message at least out of box, make some Remote desktop or Desktop sharing, its more work than on Windows.

Other thing is that have more storage devices sucks and lots of people are not willing fiddle with Grub or other boot-loaders.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.

Re: Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos+Win98 up to Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Postby chinny22 » 2018-11-13 @ 13:26

kjliew wrote:To be frank, DOS Ethernet support is lame and fragile, and I guest that was part of the reason Novell Netware failed miserably compared to WinNT and UNIX. Back in those days, when every PC was guaranteed to have LPT and COM port, LapLink or FastLynx file transfer over LPT/COM was the best.


Not quite true. you have to think about the time period
First came dos, no Networking ability at all
Then came Netware which isn't a OS but NOS (Networking Operating System) an add-on for DOS to enable file and print sharing
Followed by MS Client, Seeing the popularity of Netware MS got into the game with basic networking (think Win9x networking vs NT networking)

NT is well, NT based and no longer from the DOS era

ruthan wrote:08. Is there some universal packet Dos driver to try, for NIC without packet drivers from its manufacturer? I know no big chance, but stupid not to ask.
16. What is exactly WINS Server? Its part of modern Windows NT family as XP, Win7 etc? As i understand it its DNS for Netbios, when i have DNS, do i need it for DOS machine? Probably not.
17. What is Domain in MS Client Dos world, does it mean full modern Domain controller company stuff, or just some modern NT+ computer in network or some modern clever router?
19. Need i NetBEUI - doe it improve compatibility?
20. MS Client System.ini - interesting settings - - lmlogon= Determines whether Network Client prompts you for domain logon when you log on. Set this to 1 if you need to log on to a Windows NT Server or LAN Manager domain. Is Domain real windows full blown Domain, or just some Win NT+ machine?
22. Which tools except filesharing is part of Novell Netware solution, is this compatible with other Dos Networking utilities? Could you run Arachne / SSH / FTP with it?


08. Closest I can think of is NE2000 Compatible which is a standard not an actual card, much Like Sound Blaster vs Sound Blaster compatible, and just like the soundcard some Nics are less compatible then others.
16. Wins is old and died around with Win9x which was built around Netbeui protocol not TCP/IP or IPX the other 2 popular protocols of the time. if your just using TCP/IP you dont need it.
17. If you know what Active Directory is then think of this as a Domain, but basically its a central database of users and what they are allowed to access.
19. See Q16, Does it improve compatibility? It may find devices on the network a bit easier as it's MS default protocol, but not really, I wouldn't bother.
20. Just a NT server running as a Domain Controller
22. Netware's main focus was always file and print sharing which IPX protocol is still more efficient at then TCP on a LAN. TCP when the internet was not common. It wasn't until Netware 5 released in 1998 did it have any proper support for TCP/IP any by then NT4 was the popular choice unless you had a complex network.

Finally for someone who finds networking boring, you've done more research then me! I find this stuff interesting and haven't got around to playing around with 1/2 this stuff yet
User avatar
chinny22
l33t
 
Posts: 2366
Joined: 2011-8-26 @ 12:02
Location: Australian but living in the UK for now

Re: Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos+Win98 up to Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-14 @ 18:16

chinny22 : Thanks, for info.. i course have some additional, questions and clarifications to them, but i will start from the end.

Code: Select all
Finally for someone who finds networking boring, you've done more research then me! I find this stuff interesting and haven't got around to playing around with 1/2 this stuff yet.

From my experience, networking and security is for some reasons interesting for admins, especially Linux ones, especially security. I dont know it there are really too much interested in that, it they just claim that, because its nice source of income..

For me its really thing which i except that it would work, lets say like dishwasher, im just user. Im trying to stay how far away from thing as are domain controllers, hardware firewall, Cisco stuff, domain users restrictions etc.. as is possible, i dont like to manage everything with Mirkotik, im not insterested in internet of thing.
Me interesting things start with loadbalacers, AP/WS/DB settings, integration and etc, mainly from performance point of view, but its not retro stuff..

I like to have thing done and rebooting because of lack of networking, sucks, im not patient guy.. So i tried to search to make it working and i find out that i dont understand everything, but not too complex to try to understand. Later i find out that lots of articles is cross linked or some similar info, so simply whole scope to read all major source which i have found is manageable. Even when it wasnt easy, but also and not super challenging, i felt that im making progress.. and if would end in middle of research, i could miss some major stuff and stop just before some major progress/ discovery would happened... light on the end was always visible, what make such project easier, in comparison with other stuff, where are lots of possibilities just hit the wall and get stuck for good.

To our points:
8. If im not work NE2000 was the thing for 10 Mbit era, what is good from some old machine with only ISA slot, but otherwise is dead, because 100 / 1000 Mbit stuff is simply better is working, especially for multiboot machines. Yes you could have multiple cards, but in multi boot machines, cards slots are usually precious, you not ever have enough them. I like to networking periodic automated machine backuping and here was NIC sucks and now even 100 Mbit could be limit for cast internet connection and Steam games downloading etc.
16.Ok, thanks.
17. Here is really important, if is mandatory, or if there is some advantage to peer to peer networking and if its easy to setup (=if some classic modern desktop OS could work in thing mode, i have 24/7 Windows 7 NAS, which could in theory to some other server thing than file server.. )
19. Ok, its possible install install this protocol on XP/Win7/10 machine, is there some negative effect? True is that auto finding (discover) is not working well with MS client at least with my networks.
20. Ok, its not typical home user stuff, so i will ignore it.
22. Back to original question, so simply filesharing + IPX for gaming and any other useful major stuff? Does i have some basic utils like ping/trace/telnet etc.., or you need other networking stuck beside it?

Im going to incorporate your info to first post..
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.

Re: Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos+Win98 up to Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Postby chinny22 » 2018-11-21 @ 13:46

8. I dont know of any other standard, especially for more modern 100mb and faster. Some Intel cards can use the same driver for 100 /1000 stuff 9 (and maybe down to 10?) but I understand wanting to use on board networking and doubt there will ever be a standard.

17. Keeping in mind we are talking about a few PC's used for gaming, short answer is no, the only of an advantage of Domain I can think is:
a. It enforces the domain\user login which is why non NT based OS's fail to access shares on NT based OS's.
b. Network discover should work better as the server holds a "master list" of all the PC's in a peer to peer network no one is really responsible which is why it takes so long to update (it at all)
BUT
This is still not reliable and if your Win7 NAS is on 24/7 then its probably doing a better job then early windows servers.

19. NetBEUI is possible until XP, maybe later? but not recommended as it confuses troubleshooting. (how do you know which protocol is being used) auto discover is unreliable, it's not just you.

22. I understand Netware seems like a good idea as you already have to loaded the basics for gaming, but really it is not.
Netware does not support peer to peer and the server can only be used as a server, (think like VMware ESX host, it can only support virtual computers, you cannot use it like a PC)
I am not sure but think you need to load the client software on all PC's, when really Windows built in networking is enough for what we need.
TCP was added much later, I'm not sure how reliable it is, where as MS's built in IPX is pretty good for a small peer to peer network.
ping/trace/telnet are all utils for TCP and useless for IPX.

Again keeping in mind this is for file sharing on a group of gaming PC's of mixed OS's and using your list from your solutions list
TCP is the best option as it is supported on all OS's, IPX is only useful for games.
-FTP/MTCIP is the most comparable as ftp is part of the TCP stack. Also offers fastest transfer speed.
-MS Client works best between dos and later versions of windows, but no GUI. Need to reduce security level on Win7 and above*
-You also have the option of Windows for Workgorups, this is basically the same compatibility as the MS client but with a GUI

* Link below explains reducing security level for older OS's to connect to Win7 and above
https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Fo ... networking
User avatar
chinny22
l33t
 
Posts: 2366
Joined: 2011-8-26 @ 12:02
Location: Australian but living in the UK for now

Re: Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos+Win98 up to Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-21 @ 20:13

8. Ok, i just tried to ask, you never know, what could exist in dark corners of internet, especially at Russia..
If know that some drivers are working even for some other cards than in readme, just report it, or i can give you access to my DOS NIC compability sheet.. Same if you tested some other cards, that i tested, it would be nice to know.
In theory for newer MBs are only couple of manufactors of onboard NICs - Realtek, Intel, Broadcom, Qualcomm Atheros for older MBs VIA Rhine II.. 1 Gbit Realteks + Broadcom i already made working with native package driver (>than NDIS and ODI), i did not tested some integrated Intel and Atheros, i have them only no newest machine, i not usually testing.
BTW do you have any info, but complex is just to write new Dos package driver?

17+19. Ok thanks.

22. Netware stuff - ok thanks for info, im still looking forward to some Netware tutorial from Netware thread, i dont want to start research from begging.

DOS - Windows networking, look at my second post lots of success stories here, but sometimes is simply not working, probably because how works peer to peer networking in Windows network. I have often problem with XP to Win7 access, sometimes it working, sometimes i have to reboot etc.. i dunno if it could be drivers related, for some reason my Win7 is not autodiscovered by any other machines.

MTCIP - I best, but i feel there really used opportunity because of missing
1) mangling or how is named FAT32 feature for keep files with short and long files.. i cant simply transfer files with longer files, there is not even some auto rename possibility.
2) Some Dos dual Panel FTP client is essential missing tool.

Windows for Workgroups - what mean exactly that connect network drive / discover GUI Dos tool? or something else.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.

Re: Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos+Win98 up to Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Postby chinny22 » 2018-11-22 @ 15:21

Yes, I have also have the same problems like sometimes PC1 cannot see PC2 but PC2 can access PC1 no problem. I just accept this and use PC2 as my console.
The most reliable way is just enter \\192.168.1.1 in explorer and FORCE it find the PC!
Windows for Workgoups will allow you to share folders and connect to other network folders, but is limited like dos where the share must be mapped to a drive letter.
And of course because it is windows you get a GUI (File Manager) Actually I have just released, You will find ftp programs for Win3x as well that have a GUI as another option.

A good article on Windows for Workgroups and networking
http://toastytech.com/guis/win311.html
User avatar
chinny22
l33t
 
Posts: 2366
Joined: 2011-8-26 @ 12:02
Location: Australian but living in the UK for now

Re: Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos+Win98 up to Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-22 @ 20:11

Hmm, im so far ignoring Win 3.xx as not gaming system, at least as far as i know there not too much Win 3.xx only games, i would instead too something more modern, but you have too slow pc for Win9x or Linux, it could be handy.

Its probably long shot, but is there some Midnight commander DOS port (update i tried to Google it and nothing)? It could work as FTP / SCP client, but it would mean, that it would have to work with mTCP or other DOS network stack too.. and it would have to be really good port.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.

Re: Dos / Dosbox / Dos VMs ethernet / filesharing Dos to Win98-Win10 -WIP, help needed especially from Win admins..

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-23 @ 12:05

I could be handy for someone i just tested that at least Intel 100S and 1000GT PCI cards is working in DOS with PCI-E 1x(short) to PCI riser.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
User avatar
ruthan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: 2013-3-07 @ 04:01
Location: Schwarz Wald-from France to Ukraine, from Denmark to Austria. Celts+German+Slavs melting pot.


Return to Software

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest