Which card do you connect SC-88ST to? Is it SB16 or AWE64 Gold? What are your resource configurations? IRQ/DMA/MPU ports?

There could be a conflict between the Roland and AWE64 MIDI capabilities. If you try to use AWE64 in General MIDI mode under DOS 6.22 in a protected mode game (such as Descent) you will have your system freeze. AWE32/64 will only work in a native AWE32 mode in games. In GM mode the game will address the card through an MPU port which is partly done in software (hence the issue with protected mode games).

So ideally you should connect Roland to SB16 and change the MPU401's port so that it would be different from AWE64's MPU401 port. For instance, set SB16 MPU to 300 and AWE64 Gold's MPU to 330.

Any particular reason why you have both a SB16 and AWE64 in the same PC? Unless you have the SB16 installed for real OPL3 FM synthesis, I can't see why you would need to install both sound cards. Since you have a Sound Canvas already, do you need the AWE64? What is the model number of your SB16?

However, if you do connect your Sound Canvas to your AWE64's MIDI/Game port, ensure that you have the following statement in your Autoexec.bat file:
SET MIDI=SYNTH:2
This will then route all MIDI data to your MIDI/Game port.
SYNTH:1 is obviously to route MIDI data to the onboard EMU8000 synthesis chip.

You can create a boot menu configuration to enable you to select either one of the two.

I have an awe64 and sb16 in the same PC. Sb16 is relegated to OPL duty only since I super hate the single cycle DMA clicks

Sorry it sounded like both cards are in at the same time, there is only one sound card in it at a time, the DOS machine simply has ISA slots so I can use both of those cards on it vs the other which only has PCI. I'd prefer to use the Awe64 simply because I like it more, but I have been trying the SB16 as it has a lot less variables for figuring this out.

I have tried it with both cards and the same thing happens with both. The settings are 5,220,330,1 on both cards, just the defaults, and currently all there is in the machine is the SB16 and an S3 ViRGE/DX. The SB16 model is CT2940. I don't think it's a resource issue as all other games seem to work and there's nothing to conflict with.

I'm just trying to verify that anyone has managed to get Descent 1/2 in particular to work with an SB16 and a Sound Canvas.

AFAIK, the SET MIDI is only relevant for creative's DOS .MID player and does not affect games whatsoever

figbash wrote:

Sorry it sounded like both cards are in at the same time, there is only one sound card in it at a time, the DOS machine simply has ISA slots so I can use both of those cards on it vs the other which only has PCI. I'd prefer to use the Awe64 simply because I like it more, but I have been trying the SB16 as it has a lot less variables for figuring this out.

I have tried it with both cards and the same thing happens with both. The settings are 5,220,330,1 on both cards, just the defaults, and currently all there is in the machine is the SB16 and an S3 ViRGE/DX. The SB16 model is CT2940. I don't think it's a resource issue as all other games seem to work and there's nothing to conflict with.

I'm just trying to verify that anyone has managed to get Descent 1/2 in particular to work with an SB16 and a Sound Canvas.

How did you connect Roland to your SB16 gameport? I had issues once when I've plugged in both MIDI IN and MIDI OUT cables into the module. Some games would stutter heavily, others would give some sort of errors. You only need to connect your MIDI OUT cable into the MIDI IN port, not both of them.

jheronimus wrote:

How did you connect Roland to your SB16 gameport? I had issues once when I've plugged in both MIDI IN and MIDI OUT cables into the module. Some games would stutter heavily, others would give some sort of errors. You only need to connect your MIDI OUT cable into the MIDI IN port, not both of them.

I'm just going from the game port on the SB16 to the MIDI-IN on the module, I had read here that having both caused issues. Too bad I wish that was it!

figbash wrote:

Sorry it sounded like both cards are in at the same time, there is only one sound card in it at a time, the DOS machine simply has ISA slots so I can use both of those cards on it vs the other which only has PCI. I'd prefer to use the Awe64 simply because I like it more, but I have been trying the SB16 as it has a lot less variables for figuring this out.

I have tried it with both cards and the same thing happens with both. The settings are 5,220,330,1 on both cards, just the defaults, and currently all there is in the machine is the SB16 and an S3 ViRGE/DX. The SB16 model is CT2940. I don't think it's a resource issue as all other games seem to work and there's nothing to conflict with.

I'm just trying to verify that anyone has managed to get Descent 1/2 in particular to work with an SB16 and a Sound Canvas.

Can you clarify what does 5 & 1 constitute? Is 5 your IRQ & 1 your DMA channel? What is your High DMA channel? Is it DMA 5 or, are you also using your low DMA channel?

maxtherabbit wrote:

AFAIK, the SET MIDI is only relevant for creative's DOS .MID player and does not affect games whatsoever

Not on an AWE based card. The SET MIDI=SYNTH parameter specifically defines where MIDI data should be routed to.

Are there any other cards in your system? I remember that some NICs can conflict with MPU port.

jheronimus wrote:

Are there any other cards in your system? I remember that some NICs can conflict with MPU port.

I pulled out all the cards besides the SB16 and video card

jesolo wrote:

Can you clarify what does 5 & 1 constitute? Is 5 your IRQ & 1 your DMA channel? What is your High DMA channel? Is it DMA 5 or, are you also using your low DMA channel?

IRQ 5, IO 220, MPU 330, DMA 1 and 5

figbash wrote:

I pulled out all the cards besides the SB16 and video card […]
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jheronimus wrote:

Are there any other cards in your system? I remember that some NICs can conflict with MPU port.

I pulled out all the cards besides the SB16 and video card

jesolo wrote:

Can you clarify what does 5 & 1 constitute? Is 5 your IRQ & 1 your DMA channel? What is your High DMA channel? Is it DMA 5 or, are you also using your low DMA channel?

IRQ 5, IO 220, MPU 330, DMA 1 and 5

I seem to recall Duke Nukem 3D having issues with the high DMA channel. Not sure if Descent has the same problem but, if your setup menu does have the option to select DMA5, just select DMA1.

jesolo wrote:

maxtherabbit wrote:

AFAIK, the SET MIDI is only relevant for creative's DOS .MID player and does not affect games whatsoever

Not on an AWE based card. The SET MIDI=SYNTH parameter specifically defines where MIDI data should be routed to.

at least on my AWE64, if the game is outputting general MIDI to port 330, the ONLY way for me to get synth through the EMU chip is through the use of AWEUTIL /EM:GM and changing the SET MIDI parameter does nothing

that being said, for games that have native AWE support it may be different?

I think you're confusing real mode and protected mode in game GM support on AWE cards versus where the MIDI data is being routed to.
As you've mentioned, for real mode games, you have to use the /EM:GM parameter in Aweutil. For protected mode games, you require native AWE support (you then just set Aweutil with the /S parameter).

However, if you wish to connect an external MIDI synth (like a Roland Sound Canvas) to your AWE64 and you wish to play the GM music of your games via the Sound Canvas, then you use the /S parameter in Aweutil and you insert the SET MIDI=SYNTH:2 statement in your Autoexec.bat file.

That way, you completely bypass the EMU8000 synthesis chip.

jesolo wrote:

I think you're confusing real mode and protected mode in game GM support on AWE cards versus where the MIDI data is being routed […]
Show full quote

I think you're confusing real mode and protected mode in game GM support on AWE cards versus where the MIDI data is being routed to.
As you've mentioned, for real mode games, you have to use the /EM:GM parameter in Aweutil. For protected mode games, you require native AWE support (you then just set Aweutil with the /S parameter).

However, if you wish to connect an external MIDI synth (like a Roland Sound Canvas) to your AWE64 and you wish to play the GM music of your games via the Sound Canvas, then you use the /S parameter in Aweutil and you insert the SET MIDI=SYNTH:2 statement in your Autoexec.bat file.

That way, you completely bypass the EMU8000 synthesis chip.

I'm not confused, but the purpose for me bringing up those seemingly unrelated things was to point out that the General MIDI games who write data to 0x330 do not play through the EMU chip without the intervention of AWEUTIL. I assume that means the data is being shat out the gameport MIDI irrespective of the SET MIDI environment variable (since it's not going anywhere else), but I lack an external MIDI module to prove it.

Strangely it was my version of Descent, I installed a different copy and it all works fine now with the Awe64. Thanks for the help!

maxtherabbit wrote:

I'm not confused, but the purpose for me bringing up those seemingly unrelated things was to point out that the General MIDI games who write data to 0x330 do not play through the EMU chip without the intervention of AWEUTIL. I assume that means the data is being shat out the gameport MIDI irrespective of the SET MIDI environment variable (since it's not going anywhere else), but I lack an external MIDI module to prove it.

Apologies, you are correct.

I recalled of a POST here on Vogons where this was previously was discussed and my memory was a bit hazy in terms of what the purpose of the SET MIDI=SYNTH parameter actually was.
After founding that POST again (SET MIDI AUTOEXEC.BAT Question), I've confirmed that the SET MIDI=SYNTH parameter is indeed only meant for Creative's own "Play" utility in order to route MIDI data to either the internal EMU8000 synthesis chip or, to the external game/MIDI port. Otherwise, the use of this environment variable is completely optional.

As for games that use native AWE support. If you specify "AWE32 MIDI" or similar option in the game's setup menu, it will address the EMU8000 synthesis chip directly and completely bypass the MPU-401 MIDI interface (normally at port 330h). As I recall, in such a case, you need to specify what your EMU8000 synthesis' address is (via the SET BLASTER environment variable). There is a FAQ that was released by Creative that goes into detail on how Aweutil works.
If you do wish to use an external MIDI synth with these games, then you would just select "General MIDI" or "Sound Canvas" in the game's setup menu, run Aweutil with the /S parameter and it should then work.