VOGONS


First post, by zapblast

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So Ive been playing the original doom on an old school dos 5.0 pc and there are ton of issues preventing me from playing it the way it was meant to be played. Firstly, in normal speed mode after installation the game feels a bit choppy and sluggish almost like playing it on 386 pc or a pc which is less powerful than the one I'm using which should do the job optimally in normal speed, also the intro screen moves slightly too fast, sometimes during the selection screen, direction sometimes needs to be repeated for the option to register, but it is somewhat playable and a bit decent in general, but not as optimal as it should be.

I'm using a 486DX2-66, 8MB RAM, vlb CL-GD5424 with 1mb, Sound Blaster 16. 256 K of cache, Dos 5.0

In turbo mode what remains is a minor speed up in the intro screen, and the need to sometimes repeat the selection in the selection screens but I do get sort of a perfect speed in the game, solider shoots automatically which is odd at the beginning, but a few mins in the game, the game slowly crashes or more often the current screen gets suddenly morphs into a strange horizontal line bar within a black background where it becomes practically unplayable, this happens every time.

I've also noticed the same bizzare horizontal line thing with many games when I originally got the pc with this setup. I've had to take out disable univbe setting to make them run normally, which they have. However enable and disabling univbe for doom had no effect.

Also it is worth mentioning that the game was 1.22 release from early 1994 and installed from the original floppy disks with the exception from one image on the third disk which wasn't reading. The third floppy was copied to a floppy from this source which is pretty much identical to the box and disks I have: (edit by Dominus: link removed to the copyrighted files)

I don't have any more spare floppies so I can't copy any more files or play it via dosbox. I'm into real deal here as much as possible on old school machines as well.

It's likely the files and installation is not the problem and it is a matter of setup tweaking.

In the wetransfer file below there are more pics related to setup info and examples of what I'm talking about.

Can anyone help out? So I can play this game the way it was supposed to be played. I already have the needed specs to run it perfectly. The setting needs tweaking or the problem (game version or hardware part) needs to be identified if this isn't the case which seems unlikely.

https://we.tl/t-s6FtANrADH

https://we.tl/t-Wfs06gPP5M

Last edited by zapblast on 2020-11-28, 17:05. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 1 of 9, by chinny22

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does sound like something is bottlenecking the hardware or possible conflict if the menu doesn't recognise a keypress.
your autoexec/config.sys files are pretty standard, cant see any issues there.

Can you post some benchmark results? we can see how it's performing then. Phils benchmark pack has plenty of tests
https://www.philscomputerlab.com/dos-benchmark-pack.html
or speedsys (located inside the above zip) at least gives us a starting point

for the hardware conflict. Disable serial/parallel ports, remove the SB16, unplug the CD-ROM, thats about as basic a setup as you can get and see if doom still has the slowdowns. if not re add bit by bit and see when the issue returns.

also what HDD are you using, CF/SD card or spinning rust? a failing drive can also cause issues white trying to read/write to bad sectors.

Reply 2 of 9, by zapblast

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chinny22 wrote on 2020-11-25, 10:31:
does sound like something is bottlenecking the hardware or possible conflict if the menu doesn't recognise a keypress. your auto […]
Show full quote

does sound like something is bottlenecking the hardware or possible conflict if the menu doesn't recognise a keypress.
your autoexec/config.sys files are pretty standard, cant see any issues there.

Can you post some benchmark results? we can see how it's performing then. Phils benchmark pack has plenty of tests
https://www.philscomputerlab.com/dos-benchmark-pack.html
or speedsys (located inside the above zip) at least gives us a starting point

for the hardware conflict. Disable serial/parallel ports, remove the SB16, unplug the CD-ROM, thats about as basic a setup as you can get and see if doom still has the slowdowns. if not re add bit by bit and see when the issue returns.

also what HDD are you using, CF/SD card or spinning rust? a failing drive can also cause issues white trying to read/write to bad sectors.

Tried changing it to IRQ 5 via the readjusting the actual jumpers and it doesn't make a difference, the pc speaker or lack of sound fx with regular SB16 sound is still the only current way to remove the horizontal line screen issue which occurs when turbo speed button pressed to make it run at the right speed. The main problem is the actual game itself shouldn't need to be put on turbo for optimal speed, based on my specs, the pc should be able to handle it all from the start. Even the horizontal line crash isn't present at normal speed and it is functional but seems slower and choppier than the norm.

Unless 1.2 was known to be slower than other versions no matter what which seems unlikely, but I wouldn't know for sure even based on youtube videos because they made be using pirated, modified or digital versions of the game or release. One disk, the 3rd disk, of the original version, wasn't of the original file but it was taken from https://archive.org/details/doom1.21 which at least seems to be a copy from an legitmate source. I couldn't find another working file of this release. Would you be able to suggest anything or know anyone who can send a file? Or is this likely not the issue?

There is no place to disable the parellel ports. Reming out the cd drive, sound and mouse did nothing. I've just managed to find and format a floppy, I ran out and don't have any blanks or ones I can give up and so eventually searched enough and finally found one disk, I will test out this link you sent.

But in the meantime, here are the doom benchmark results, this might be enough:

timed 1091 gametics in 2792 realtics

Thats about 14 fps. I'm not sure where to do go from here? Would the motherboard model number be of use? Are you aware of any patches or slowdown from this release? I can't seem to identify it but maybe I skipped something. What do you think is causing this.

Will send the test results from that link, however is there anything you can suggest in the mean time?

Thank you.

PS - I'm struggling to fit all the file you send me on one floppy. Are there certain files I only need to include? If not there is another effective link you recommend?

Reply 3 of 9, by zapblast

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chinny22 wrote on 2020-11-25, 10:31:
does sound like something is bottlenecking the hardware or possible conflict if the menu doesn't recognise a keypress. your auto […]
Show full quote

does sound like something is bottlenecking the hardware or possible conflict if the menu doesn't recognise a keypress.
your autoexec/config.sys files are pretty standard, cant see any issues there.

Can you post some benchmark results? we can see how it's performing then. Phils benchmark pack has plenty of tests
https://www.philscomputerlab.com/dos-benchmark-pack.html
or speedsys (located inside the above zip) at least gives us a starting point

for the hardware conflict. Disable serial/parallel ports, remove the SB16, unplug the CD-ROM, thats about as basic a setup as you can get and see if doom still has the slowdowns. if not re add bit by bit and see when the issue returns.

also what HDD are you using, CF/SD card or spinning rust? a failing drive can also cause issues white trying to read/write to bad sectors.

Did you have any thoughts on the last response I sent you a few days ago? Was just wondering.

Reply 4 of 9, by 8bitbubsy

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In the BIOS, set "DRAM timing selection" to "fast", and enable "Hidden Refresh Function".
Also make sure your VLB graphics card is set to have zero waitstates. Some VLB graphics cards have jumpers for "> 33MHz" and "<= 33MHz". It should be set to "<= 33MHz" in your case since your FSB is 33MHz, and this means it will not insert any waitstates. However, neither of these changes should have a dramatic speed improvement, so I wonder if your issue is somewhere else.

Also verify that the FSB is actually set to 33MHz through the jumpers on your motherboard. And there might be VLB waitstate jumpers on your mobo too, and if so, they need to be set to 0 waitstates.

486:
- Motherboard: "SIS 486G 3.3/5V Ver:E" w/ 256kB L2 cache
- CPU: Intel 486 DX2 66MHz (no WB cache)
- RAM: 32MB FPM 60ns
- HDD: 8GB microSD
- VGA: S3 805 1MB VLB
- Audio: SB16 CT4180
- ISA PS/2 mouse card

Reply 5 of 9, by chinny22

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Hey, I'm not usually active over weekends.
Each benchmark lives within the Marks folder in Phils pack. You should be able to copy majority of them over in 3 disk's (or same disk wiped after each copy) if you exclude doom and quake folders.
Speedsys will be interesting as that'll show how your cache is behaving.
Something like PCBBench will determine if its just a doom thing (doubtful) or not)

You can check your results against this chart (Phils VGA Benchmark Database) to see roughly what your PC is performance is like
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lvF9n … wpNU/edit#gid=0

Typically your CL-GD5424 gets in to 20's in doom so 14fps is fair bit off the pace.

Also wanted to double check your mostly running the PC with turbo ON right?

Reply 6 of 9, by zapblast

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chinny22 wrote on 2020-11-30, 12:25:
Hey, I'm not usually active over weekends. Each benchmark lives within the Marks folder in Phils pack. You should be able to cop […]
Show full quote

Hey, I'm not usually active over weekends.
Each benchmark lives within the Marks folder in Phils pack. You should be able to copy majority of them over in 3 disk's (or same disk wiped after each copy) if you exclude doom and quake folders.
Speedsys will be interesting as that'll show how your cache is behaving.
Something like PCBBench will determine if its just a doom thing (doubtful) or not)

You can check your results against this chart (Phils VGA Benchmark Database) to see roughly what your PC is performance is like
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lvF9n … wpNU/edit#gid=0

Typically your CL-GD5424 gets in to 20's in doom so 14fps is fair bit off the pace.

Also wanted to double check your mostly running the PC with turbo ON right?

No just the doom game. Everything in my system was fine from some of the programs I ran, I asked around. I did a quick test with 0 errors. I can't seem to fit more disks for the rest of the programs other than 1 more disk.

Here is the motherboard number and name, and the screen of another test. What do you make of all this ? What should I do next?

https://we.tl/t-LPCK7r4WQB

Reply 7 of 9, by zapblast

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chinny22 wrote on 2020-11-30, 12:25:
Hey, I'm not usually active over weekends. Each benchmark lives within the Marks folder in Phils pack. You should be able to cop […]
Show full quote

Hey, I'm not usually active over weekends.
Each benchmark lives within the Marks folder in Phils pack. You should be able to copy majority of them over in 3 disk's (or same disk wiped after each copy) if you exclude doom and quake folders.
Speedsys will be interesting as that'll show how your cache is behaving.
Something like PCBBench will determine if its just a doom thing (doubtful) or not)

You can check your results against this chart (Phils VGA Benchmark Database) to see roughly what your PC is performance is like
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lvF9n … wpNU/edit#gid=0

Typically your CL-GD5424 gets in to 20's in doom so 14fps is fair bit off the pace.

Also wanted to double check your mostly running the PC with turbo ON right?

More pics :

https://we.tl/t-9oma2EWS4R

https://we.tl/t-sReLNgy4cx

Reply 8 of 9, by chinny22

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delete everything on one of your floppies, to do this type from a dos prompt:
format a: /q

unzip the dosbench_v_1.4_jan_2017.zip file to a temp location on a hard drive say c:\temp
Open c:\temp\marks\speedsys
copy these 2 files to the floppy disk
may as well copy the 3 files from c:\temp\marks\pcpbench onto the floppy as well, all up this is still under 1MB and should fit.

speedsys will allow you to save a pcx file. copy that back to the floppy disk and post here (Please just save it in the post as an attachment rather than a wetransfer file)
pcbbench just list the result

totally off topic and maybe you know but your CD-ROM isn't IDE and instead uses the Mitsumi interface. make sure you dont plug that into a standard IDE port!

Reply 9 of 9, by evasive

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FwIW, your board is a Freetech 486F30:
http://www.win3x.org/uh19/motherboard/show/2535

We would appreciate a bios dump for the UH19 page. As for the slowness problem, make sure nothing is sharing IRQs in your system.