VOGONS


First post, by Andrew T.

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Since my last Windows 95 system is giving up the ghost, I've started to review everything I relied on the system for and figure out whether or not it's practical to do it on Windows 7 instead.

So far, it's been pretty reassuring. Most of my DOS games behave nicely on DOSBox. I also have the 32-bit version of Windows 7, so I can run most 16-bit games and productivity applications and install 32-bit applications with 16-bit installers without issue.

The biggest stumbling block hasn't been a game at all: It's Paintbrush. I've been engrossed in Paintbrush from the day I first used Windows 3.1 nearly three decades ago, pushing it to its limits and using it to create all kinds of pixel-perfect layouts, diagrams, and art.

I've stubbornly clung to Paintbrush, decades after ZSoft went out of business and Microsoft stopped distributing it in Windows, since there seemed to be no other program in existence that was as creatively stimulating or which worked the way I wanted it to. To me, Paint in Windows 95 (and beyond) was completely unsuitable because it lacked the ability to move the pointer on the canvas with the arrow keys, the controls and palette didn't scale with the window, and just about everything that took one click to do in Paintbrush now took two or three.

But Paintbrush is also a finicky program. In newer NT-based OSes (2000, XP, 7), there are various little things that don't work right: The proper cursor won't display on startup. The colour replacer tool won't work...and that's enough of a problem to render the program unusable for my purposes. This is true regardless of whether I run the 16-bit version from Windows 3.1, or the 32-bit version from NT 3.51.

Even in Windows 9x, it could have compatibility issues. When I reinstalled Windows 95 two years ago, I discovered that the program behaved erratically in high colour depths until I switched to a different version of my ATI video driver. Weird, but that's how it was.

Since then, I've discovered that some of the NT incompatibilities are also colour depth-dependent. If I step my Windows 7 display settings down to 256 colours or 16-bit colour, the Paintbrush colour replacer will work correctly. It's only 32-bit colour that trips it up. (None of my Win7 computers have a 24-bit video mode available.)

So, some questions...

Is there any workaround to make Paintbrush work correctly on Windows 2000 or later, aside from dropping the colour depth and putting up with dithering and quality loss on high-colour bitmaps?

Is there any good alternative to Paintbrush that's focused on composition instead of Photoshop-style editing, allows the pointer to be moved with the arrow keys, and is fully compatible with Windows 2000 and later?

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Reply 1 of 5, by dr_st

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Andrew T. wrote on 2021-06-27, 19:37:

Is there any workaround to make Paintbrush work correctly on Windows 2000 or later, aside from dropping the colour depth and putting up with dithering and quality loss on high-colour bitmaps?

Run DOSBox and Windows 3.x inside of DOSBox.

Andrew T. wrote on 2021-06-27, 19:37:

Is there any good alternative to Paintbrush that's focused on composition instead of Photoshop-style editing, allows the pointer to be moved with the arrow keys, and is fully compatible with Windows 2000 and later?

Microsoft Paint on Windows 10.

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Reply 2 of 5, by BinaryDemon

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Have you tried BoxedWine or Winevdm?

Check out DOSBox Distro:

https://sites.google.com/site/dosboxdistro/ [*]

a lightweight Linux distro (tinycore) which boots off a usb flash drive and goes straight to DOSBox.

Make your dos retrogaming experience portable!

Reply 3 of 5, by Andrew T.

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dr_st wrote on 2021-06-27, 19:46:

Run DOSBox and Windows 3.x inside of DOSBox.

Is it possible to run Windows 3.1 from DOSBox in 24- or 32-bit colour depth? If not, there isn't any point in doing this...and from what I've picked up on, it's tough to get 3.1 running in DOSBox at all. But virtualizing the ZSoft DOS version might be a viable idea.

Andrew T. wrote on 2021-06-27, 19:37:

Microsoft Paint on Windows 10.

I don't use Windows 10, and I've already spelled out why I find Paint unsuitable.

BinaryDemon wrote on 2021-06-27, 20:07:

Have you tried BoxedWine or Winevdm?

I have now! Running Paintbrush through WineVDM appears to have no different effect from running Paintbrush as-is. Seems its main purpose is to run 16-bit applications on 64-bit Windows, which is irrelevant on my configuration.
BoxedWine was more intriguing, since it had its own UI and a plethora of configuration options. I kicked it around a few times, however, and found that it was unusable at high colour depths. Various portions of the program UI would disappear, or go unresponsive. More seriously, Paintbrush was incapable of reliably saving data: More often than not, the bitmaps I created were completely blank when reopened. It was also very slow...to be expected, considering it's effectively using Windows to emulate Linux, to emulate Windows!

Reply 4 of 5, by Jo22

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Andrew T. wrote on 2021-06-27, 19:37:

The biggest stumbling block hasn't been a game at all: It's Paintbrush. I've been engrossed in Paintbrush from the day I first used Windows 3.1 nearly three decades ago, pushing it to its limits and using it to create all kinds of pixel-perfect layouts, diagrams, and art.

I've stubbornly clung to Paintbrush, decades after ZSoft went out of business and Microsoft stopped distributing it in Windows, since there seemed to be no other program in existence that was as creatively stimulating or which worked the way I wanted it to. To me, Paint in Windows 95 (and beyond) was completely unsuitable because it lacked the ability to move the pointer on the canvas with the arrow keys, the controls and palette didn't scale with the window, and just about everything that took one click to do in Paintbrush now took two or three.

I can feel your dissappointment, especially with MS Paint.
I was also a long time user of Windows 3.x Paintbrush and loved to use the arrow keys.

Maybe there are later versions of ZSoft Paintbrush out there that stilly work ?

If not, you can try using the old Paintbrush in an emulator running an older copy of Windows.
Or, WineVDM/OTVDM, as suggested. There's an installer out there that does all the finicky work for you.

Edit: Some other ideas: Enable Aero Glass on WIndows 7 etc. It may fix some colour depth issues with Win16 applications.
Also, you can try CoLinux/Andlinux on Windows XP and higher (32-Bit releases only).
CoLinux will run a Linux kernal with some applications side-by-side with Windows NT.
On that mini Linux, you can install a regular WINE just fine. I used to do this in the past.

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Reply 5 of 5, by JP32

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Is there any good alternative to Paintbrush that's focused on composition instead of Photoshop-style editing, allows the pointer to be moved with the arrow keys, and is fully compatible with Windows 2000 and later?

Paint.net, although you need to use old version (3.0 was IIRC the one they dropped support for 2k and 98) to run it anything below windows 7.