VOGONS


First post, by MdaCgaEga

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Hi! Here is a real effort post. I did the research mainly for myself, but maybe someone else is interested...

There was this strange time between the DX6 and DX7 era that lasted a long time and the 7th console generation era that mostly required DX9c cards (Sorry, FX and X600/800 owners!).
It seems to me, that relatively few games asked for a (slow selling) GF3 / 8500 type DX8 card... Despite the surprisingly successful original Xbox. Even on the console itself, relatively few games put the capabilities of the Xbox to good use, mostly Xbox (or Xbox/PC) exclusives.
By late 2005/2006 the long reign of the Xbox 360 and the PS3 began and in terms of graphics, PC ports mainly offered a higher resolution and not much else.
I find those few years (2004-2006) before the 7th console completely changed the market really interesting, since many new concepts were pioneered at that time.

Please be aware of the fact that the DirectX API is (at least theoretically) backwards compatible to earlier versions. Just because the game requires DX8 or later, there is no reason to assume that it will require hardware above the DX6/7 level.
Please be also aware of the fact that, like most of us, I am by no means an expert. All I know is a few buzz words I read somewhere online or in a magazine... I don't even know the difference between bump and normal mapping!
Still, I am interested in DX8 (or equivalent OGL) games that make good use of shaders: Mainly bump/normal mapping, parallax mapping, specular lights/highlights (is there a difference?), dynamic shadows... Anything that goes beyond flat textures with baked in lighting that were prevalent during the DX6/7 era.
As a general rule, anything that was also available on PS2 and runs fine on a GF4 MX aimed for DX6/7 level graphics and anything that was released on the original Xbox but not on the other 6th gen. consoles and requires at least a GF3/R8500 was more ambitious. There are of course exeptions.

Important: The minimum specifications mentioned on the box cannot always be trusted, sometimes games run just fine below the minimum specifications. Later patches can also change things considerably, HL 2 is a good example.
I am not too interested in strategy games and simulations. The focus here is definitely on action games and a few racing games.
Another thing: The release dates I found on Wikipedia and Mobygames are not always trustworthy.
Here are a few examples:

Games that run - according to the minimum specs on the box - on an Nvidia GeForce3 or ATI 8500 with 64MB of memory (albeit sometimes at a low framerate):

02.12.2003 Prince of Persia: Sands of Time (No mention of a DX7 render path on the box. Can this be true for a 2003 game?)
Very interesting but untested. I stink at playing this kind of game... The later games from the trilogy run with the same specs. Does it actually take advantage of advanced shader effects?

23.03.2004: Far Cry (DX7 render path available)
Was this the first game on the PC to really show off the new generation of hardware? The water still looks amazing and at certain locations (carrier) there's a lot of bump mapping and specular lighting going on! I never played the game past the jungle levels however, too boring and I hate checkpoints!

25.05.2004: Thief: Deadly Shadows
Has a bad reputation... But what about the visuals? It's one of the first games (or THE first game?) requiring something newer than a GF2 or equivalent card.

16.07.2004 Richard Burns Rally
I have to try this one sometimes...

03.08.2004 Doom 3 (DX7 render path available for GF4 MX cards. Really? Somehow I can't believe this...)
What a fantastic looking game! What a revolution! Specular and normal maps everywhere. The BFG edition looks much more "shiny" however. Stencil shadows look good but there are issues: Go ahead and aim the flashlight at a handrail: The projected shadows look completely wrong to me... The game took a lot of flak back in 2004. It did not deserve any of it, except that it should have had another name. It was not a Doom game and the title was misleading. Almost any other name would have better: What about "Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3D"?

24.09.2004 Colin McRae Rally 2005
I wonder how this one compares to Richard Burns Rally...

03.12.2004 (PC) 01.06.2004 (XB) : The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay
Looks somewhat similar to Doom 3 but toned down and with less details overall. Still: Very impressive for the time!

28.03.2005: Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory (Option for Shader Model 1.1 or 3.0)
What a great looking game, much better than F.E.A.R! If you go for SM 1.1 you can admire several dynamic stencil shadows per object that give a decent illusion of soft shadows. Or activate the Shader Model 3.0 option and look at those soft, if somewhat low-res shadows! Parallax mapping on brick walls looks a little weird however, but at least it was there. I also don't care much about those bloom and HDR effects. Still: Maybe the only stealth game I actually like to play. Metal Gear Emo? Can love bloom on a battlefield? Cringy and out of place conversation during important missions? You don't get any of that c##p with Sam Fisher!

11.10.2005: Serious Sam 2
I am not sure... It's a good looking game but the focus seemed to be on speed and not on fancy effects.

18.10.2005: Quake 4
Very similar to Doom 3. Outdoor levels very brown and low-res, not the forte of the id Tech 4 engine. Indoor levels a little brighter than Doom 3. It's an alright game I guess... Next!

25.10.2005: Call of Duty 2
I played it but I can't remember. Did the game take good advantage of the new technology of the time?

31.10.2005 Star Wars: Battlefront II
Interesting: the almost identical first BF ran on lesser cards.

07.04.2006: Tomb Raider: Legend (Interesting: there is a DX9 render path available. According to the box you need at least a 5900 or a 9800XT card for this.)
This looks like the PS2 at a higher resolution. Unless you select 360 level graphics: Plenty of shiny surfaces, bump mapping and higher polygon count in this mode. The moving water looks weird but at least they tried. Interestingly, the option for advanced graphics is lacking in Tomb Raider: Anniversary that got a release the year after.

26.06.2006: Titan Quest
I played it back in 2006 but I absolutely can't remember anything about it.

11.06.2006: Prey (The ATI 8500 is not mentioned on the box, but I am pretty sure it's compatible too.)
Based on id Tech 4 but much more colorful than the amazing Doom 3 or Quake 4. I like the fact that they replaced the flashlight (and the presumably broken shadows it projects) with a lighter that does not project any shadows but emits a warm glow instead. Looks much better to me!

30.10.2006: Need for Speed: Carbon (The first game of the series with a need for something faster than a GF2... On the box it asks for a Ti4200 or later. Maybe Pixel Shader 1.3 is required?)
I played this on other systems. I like the colors, there is a bit of an 80s vibe going on. But I absolutely hate that terrible speed effect behind the car at speed.

These are all the major releases I found! A very short list indeed... Please let me know if something else comes to your mind. Especially if the game actually looks good...

And here are a few games that need - at least according to the minimum specs on the box - MORE than a 64MB GF3 or ATI 8500 card. Most of these games were created with a focus on 7th gen consoles.

18.10.2005: F.E.A.R (Minimum: 64MB Nvidia GF4 or ATI 9000 series, recommended: 256MB Nvidia 6600 series or ATI 9800 Pro. Wow!)
Plenty of shader effects are present (not sure anymore if there are soft shadows) but the overall art style was rather boring. I only played the first two missions and then I fell asleep... I don't really understand the hype surrounding this game!

21.10.2005: Battlefield 2 (Interesting: This one requires a 128MB card with pixel shader 1.4 support. That means it would run on a 8500 but not on a GF3 (PS 1.1)... Really? Steep requirements for a MP FPS!)
I never played this, should I? How does it look? The sometimes astonishingly bad quality of YT-videos does not allow a verdict...

09.03.2006: Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter (Recommended: 256MB and Pixel Shader 2.0. 9600/9800 series ATI or 6000 series Nvidia card. Not sure about the relatively recent at the time Nvidia FX 5000 series cards...)
Never played it, should I? In regard of the visuals I mean... It should look amazing, in the light of such heavy requirements!

20.03.2006: Oblivion (Wants at least a 128MB FX/5000 or X600/800 series card.)
Parallax mapping is visible in the initial indoor tutorial level and maybe in other dungeons. But I didn't see them in outdoor levels. A fantastic looking game of course, especially the vast outdoor environment with those hazy mountain ranges in the distance. Yes, every location looks more or less the same, but the overall visual quality of the outdoor environment was unprecedented and set a new standard.

26.05.2006: Hitman: Blood Money (Pixel Shader 2.0 required. Minimum: GF FX/5000 or Radeon 9500)
I played the first level recently. All I remember is that it looked "realistic" or in other words very drab and colorless, almost monochromatic.

17.10.2006: Battlefield 2142 (Wants at least a 128MB 5700FX or 9500 card, quite a bit more than BF2...)
Never played it, should I? I am rather fascinated by soft shadows and shiny things. I am a simple mind I guess...

22.11.2006: Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas (Wow, this one wants at least a 128MB Shader Moder 3.0 graphics card. Does that mean that it didn't run on FX series and X800 series cards? Already in 2006? Kind of cruel...)
I played the initial level in Mexico. Very atmospheric, has soft shadows and bump/normal mapping. I am a lousy player however and I hate the checkpoint system. Did not reach the Las Vegas level yet... Failed in the church during the tutorial level... Thinking about it: The same happened to me in RL...

There were plenty of major releases in 2004 and onward that only required a DX7 level card. Maybe with or without additional DX8 or DX9 render paths. By this time it was pretty much game over for cards that lacked hardware TnL however. The first Call of Duty is a good example for this.
Here are just a few late major DX7 (or even DX6) games...

16.03.2004 Unreal Tournament 2004 (Runs on a 32MB DX6 card, recommended: A 64MB card with hardware TnL)
The water looks too good for DX6/7... Shader effects can be programmed in software, at least to a certain degree. Maybe that's what they did here. Just a guess, I have to test it sometimes...)

21.09.2004 Star Wars: Battlefront
More advanced render paths available?

09.11.2004 Need for Speed: Underground 2
Probably no advanced render paths available. The game still looks amazing however! Is there a way to fully deactivate the HUD?

16.11.2004 Half Life 2: (Early versions run on DX6 cards, at very low texture resolutions however... Still, that's amazing for a top notch 2004 game!)
Well... Open the console and enter "mat_dxlevel 70", go to the graphics menu and set all the visuals to "high" and you will be surprised, how good the game still looks. Shader effects are obviously available for more advanced cards (see, the water almost looks like real water!), but rather as an enhancement and not as the main focus, like in Doom 3.

08.02.2005 Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II
More advanced render paths available?

15.11.2005 Need for Speed: Most Wanted
If the Underground games are too colorful for you: Here is the light brown version! I hate it.

Halo 1+2 on Xbox and later PC: I am not really familiar with these games. Were shader effects used to the same degree as for example in Doom 3?

Alright, I apologize for this long post! But judging from other, similar posts, there is a certain interest in DX8 and early DX9 games. Unfortunately, I don't own a GF3 card. My oldest DX8 feature level capable card is a GF4 Ti4600.
Did I miss something? Do you know of other good examples of early "next gen" games from the pre 7th console generation era? I am especially interested in games that can be played on an original GeForce 3 with 64MB.
Again: What a surprisingly short list of games! Sure, a high memory bandwidth is useful too, especially at higher resolutions. Still: I can only assume that early adopters were somewhat disappointed. A GeForce 256 (DDR, SDR not so much...) offered a much better return of investment, at least counted in number of quality games!
Another interesting idea for another thread would be a list of the first games that do not run on Nvidia GF FX (5000 series) or ATI X600/800 series cards but require a real DirectX 9.0c card instead.
Anyway, thanks for your attention!

Last edited by MdaCgaEga on 2022-11-05, 16:56. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 31, by TrashPanda

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Got a GF3 .. thats easy SPLINTER CELL, it was built for the Xbox which used the GF3 Uarc and as such really shows off what the hardware could do, it used it to the point that later Geforce cards had issues running that game as some of the features were removed/changed in later shader revisions. (its only recently modders have fixed the game that it can now run correctly with proper shadows and lighting)

Reply 2 of 31, by leileilol

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the "GF3-8500 era" would probably just be 2001-2003 to me. The only reason DX7 games still were a thing for years after shader model 2 is because of the Geforce4MX and the FX5200.

MdaCgaEga wrote on 2022-11-05, 15:25:

23.03.2004: Far Cry (DX7 render path available)
Was this the first game on the PC to really show off the new generation of hardware?

...no Comanche 4? Morrowind? Aquanox?

16.03.2004 Unreal Tournament 2004 (Runs on a 32MB DX6 card, recommended: A 64MB card with hardware TnL)
The water looks too good for DX6/7... Shader effects can be programmed in software, at least to a certain degree. Maybe that's what they did here. Just a guess, I have to test it sometimes...)

It's a cube reflection map on a vertex heightmap having turbulation from the CPU. Unreal Tournament 2003 did this (in 2002). NOLF2 had similar. It's only a bit of a step up from the cpu rippled environment maps you'd see on Wave Race 64 (1996)

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Reply 3 of 31, by MdaCgaEga

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-11-05, 15:46:

Got a GF3 .. thats easy SPLINTER CELL, it was built for the Xbox which used the GF3 Uarc and as such really shows off what the hardware could do...

Congratulations to your GF3. It's a rare beast... As for the first SC: The shadows look impressive for 2002. But take a look at SC Chaos Theory running on the same hardware.
Here is a Digital Foundry episode: https://youtu.be/YnlvSci_PCE

leileilol wrote on 2022-11-05, 19:16:

the "GF3-8500 era" would probably just be 2001-2003 to me. ...

If we apply your logic to the late 80s, then we had to call 1987-1989 the "VGA or MCGA" era...

leileilol wrote on 2022-11-05, 19:16:

...no Comanche 4? Morrowind? Aquanox?

Not sure about the first two... But Aquanox, definitely!

leileilol wrote on 2022-11-05, 19:16:

It's a cube reflection map on a vertex heightmap having turbulation from the CPU...

That makes sense!

Reply 4 of 31, by TrashPanda

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MdaCgaEga wrote on 2022-11-07, 07:01:
Congratulations to your GF3. It's a rare beast... As for the first SC: The shadows look impressive for 2002. But take a look at […]
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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-11-05, 15:46:

Got a GF3 .. thats easy SPLINTER CELL, it was built for the Xbox which used the GF3 Uarc and as such really shows off what the hardware could do...

Congratulations to your GF3. It's a rare beast... As for the first SC: The shadows look impressive for 2002. But take a look at SC Chaos Theory running on the same hardware.
Here is a Digital Foundry episode: https://youtu.be/YnlvSci_PCE

leileilol wrote on 2022-11-05, 19:16:

the "GF3-8500 era" would probably just be 2001-2003 to me. ...

If we apply your logic to the late 80s, then we had to call 1987-1989 the "VGA or MCGA" era...

leileilol wrote on 2022-11-05, 19:16:

...no Comanche 4? Morrowind? Aquanox?

Not sure about the first two... But Aquanox, definitely!

leileilol wrote on 2022-11-05, 19:16:

It's a cube reflection map on a vertex heightmap having turbulation from the CPU...

That makes sense!

I love the first three Splinter Cell games, Chaos theory will still run ok on modern hardware, same for the patched Splinter Cell but Pandora Tomorrow has yet to be fixed and its actually a great game.

Reply 5 of 31, by acl

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MdaCgaEga wrote on 2022-11-05, 15:25:

16.11.2004 Half Life 2: (Early versions run on DX6 cards, at very low texture resolutions however... Still, that's amazing for a top notch 2004 game!)
Well... Open the console and enter "mat_dxlevel 70", go to the graphics menu and set all the visuals to "high" and you will be surprised, how good the game still looks. Shader effects are obviously available for more advanced cards (see, the water almost looks like real water!), but rather as an enhancement and not as the main focus, like in Doom 3.

From what i saw online (and my experience with the Fury MAXX), there are very few DX6 cards able to run HL2.
I can think of TNT2 Ultra, Fury MAXX and maybe Kyro/Kyro II (and some late Voodoo 3/4/5 ?)
And it requires some tweaking in config files for a two digits framerate at low details.

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Reply 6 of 31, by leileilol

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Kyro2 definitely can run HL2, but it'll have some huge trouble with the texture buffer effects so the framerate will die (i.e. gman face when that's blended over a scene.) it'll also break some textures

MdaCgaEga wrote on 2022-11-07, 07:01:

If we apply your logic to the late 80s, then we had to call 1987-1989 the "VGA or MCGA" era...

When it came to shader models, moore's law moved *very* fast. Shader model 2 was just mid-2002 and that brought a lot of huge changes with it that made it easier to develop for.

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Reply 7 of 31, by Geri

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MdaCgaEga wrote on 2022-11-05, 15:25:

Prince of Persia: Sands of Time

This game simply refused to start for me on radeon 9250, saying shader model is too old (it ran on the fx5200 well)... according to google, its a dx9 game.

MdaCgaEga wrote on 2022-11-05, 15:25:

Prey

Prey isnt even a directx game.

MdaCgaEga wrote on 2022-11-05, 15:25:

Doom 3 (DX7 render path available for GF4 MX cards. Really? Somehow I can't believe this...)

No offense but you lack the scientific understanding of the topic you are trying to discuss.

Also... Most of the games you listed are... can we call these even games? Tomb raider legends, quake4, cod2, more like fake gamer wasd fanboy sedators... they will come up in google due to professional marketing and seo, but not because they worth anything.

The only real game i can think of right now, which was made for directx8 is the early versions of the IL2 Sturmovik series.
Actually its an OpenGL game, but they also have added directx support to increase system compatibility.
Later versions switched to directx 9.

TitaniumGL the OpenGL to D3D wrapper:
http://users.atw.hu/titaniumgl/index.html

Reply 8 of 31, by acl

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Geri wrote on 2022-11-09, 00:36:

No offense but you lack the scientific understanding of the topic you are trying to discuss.

No offense sir but remarks like that are not appropriate.
Commenting on errors in the topic content is great and elevate the discussion.
Commenting on the allegate lack of understandng of the topic by someone is just personal attack.

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Reply 9 of 31, by appiah4

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Geri wrote on 2022-11-09, 00:36:
MdaCgaEga wrote on 2022-11-05, 15:25:

Prince of Persia: Sands of Time

This game simply refused to start for me on radeon 9250, saying shader model is too old (it ran on the fx5200 well)... according to google, its a dx9 game.

I sincerely doubt this, it is an XBOX OG game meaning it can at best be a DX 8.1 game. This game almost predates DX9. It was released in 2003, whereas DX9 was released in December 2002.

Check here for requirements: https://www.systemrequirementslab.com/cyri/re … s-of-time/21361

Explicitly states GF3/Radeon 8500 or higher (DX8).

What you are experiencing is likely a driver issue and/or the game not understanding what DX class 9250 is.

Geri wrote on 2022-11-09, 00:36:
Prey isnt even a directx game. […]
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MdaCgaEga wrote on 2022-11-05, 15:25:

Prey

Prey isnt even a directx game.

MdaCgaEga wrote on 2022-11-05, 15:25:

Doom 3 (DX7 render path available for GF4 MX cards. Really? Somehow I can't believe this...)

No offense but you lack the scientific understanding of the topic you are trying to discuss.

No offense but you lack reading comprehension skills, the subject is not games that put DX8 to good use, it is games that put DX8 hardware to good use. Whether they run on DX8 or another API is besides the point when they utilize DX8 specification hardware features like programmable pixel shaders.

It really doesn't feel nice when someone treats you this way does it? Heh..

Geri wrote on 2022-11-09, 00:36:

Also... Most of the games you listed are... can we call these even games? Tomb raider legends, quake4, cod2, more like fake gamer wasd fanboy sedators... they will come up in google due to professional marketing and seo, but not because they worth anything.

Eh, what? Tomb Raider Legend was a very good Tomb Raider game, the best Tomb Raider game in years actually at the time. Quake 4 was pretty huge, and COD2 was one of the biggest games of its year. I have no idea what kind of delusion you are experiencing.

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Reply 10 of 31, by Geri

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acl wrote on 2022-11-09, 07:19:

Commenting on errors in the topic content is great and elevate the discussion.
Commenting on the allegate lack of understandng of the topic by someone is just personal attack.

He suggests the game has a directx7 render path inside within an opengl implementation that activates with geforce2 😜

appiah4 wrote on 2022-11-09, 07:59:

No offense but you lack reading comprehension skills, the subject is not games that put DX8 to good use, it is games that put DX8 hardware to good use. Whether they run on DX8 or another API is besides the point when they utilize DX8 specification hardware features like programmable pixel shaders.
It really doesn't feel nice when someone treats you this way does it? Heh..

No offense, but you also lack scientifical competence on this topic. Otherwise, you would understand, what opengl extensions are, and why games relying on GL_ARB_fragment_shader couldnt put a dx8 hardware to "good use".

appiah4 wrote on 2022-11-09, 07:59:

Quake 4 was pretty huge, and COD2 was one of the biggest games of its year. I have no idea what kind of delusion you are experiencing.

These are games a fashiongamer would drag out - someone who never even played video games at all.

BTW here is another great and real game for directx8 era hardware: warcraft 3.

TitaniumGL the OpenGL to D3D wrapper:
http://users.atw.hu/titaniumgl/index.html

Reply 11 of 31, by Joseph_Joestar

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Regarding GeForce 2 / GeForce 4 MX cards and Doom 3, here's a quote from John Carmack himself (emphasis mine):

John Carmack wrote:

Nvidia has really made a mess of the naming conventions here. I always thought it was bad enough that GF2 was just a speed bumped GF1, while GF3 had significant architectural improvements over GF2. I expected GF4 to be the speed bumped GF3, but calling the NV17 GF4-MX really sucks. GF4-MX will still run Doom properly, but it will be using the NV10 codepath with only two texture units and no vertex shaders.

Source.

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PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
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Reply 12 of 31, by Geri

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-11-09, 11:07:

Regarding GeForce 2 / GeForce 4 MX cards and Doom 3, here's a quote from John Carmack himself (emphasis mine):

in short, doom3 will run on almost everything which has vbo support in the drivers.
not due to a magical directx7 pipeline support in opengl 😁

TitaniumGL the OpenGL to D3D wrapper:
http://users.atw.hu/titaniumgl/index.html

Reply 13 of 31, by appiah4

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Geri wrote on 2022-11-09, 10:55:
appiah4 wrote on 2022-11-09, 07:59:

No offense but you lack reading comprehension skills, the subject is not games that put DX8 to good use, it is games that put DX8 hardware to good use. Whether they run on DX8 or another API is besides the point when they utilize DX8 specification hardware features like programmable pixel shaders.
It really doesn't feel nice when someone treats you this way does it? Heh..

No offense, but you also lack scientifical competence on this topic. Otherwise, you would understand, what opengl extensions are, and why games relying on GL_ARB_fragment_shader couldnt put a dx8 hardware to "good use".

Prey was made on idTech4 and yes even though it renders shader operations on DirectX7 hardware it uses a different rendering path for those and does not use actualy DX8 hardware, ie vertex shaders. So what I said still stands, the game does actually use DX8 hardware features on DX8 class hardware, and you are full of shit, and yourself.

Geri wrote on 2022-11-09, 10:55:
appiah4 wrote on 2022-11-09, 07:59:

Quake 4 was pretty huge, and COD2 was one of the biggest games of its year. I have no idea what kind of delusion you are experiencing.

These are games a fashiongamer would drag out - someone who never even played video games at all.

Oh, and now your tastes are objective universal truth?

Get a life.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 14 of 31, by MdaCgaEga

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Thanks for your replies!

Hmmm... That rabbit hole is deeper than I initially expected! The industry did not exactly a stellar job explaining, what kind of hardware was needed to run a certain game. Navigation must have been difficult for developers and consumers, since the technology changed so fast. In regard of GPU capability, not speed, there were 4 main target systems:

- Pre hardware shader
- PS/VS 1.1 (GF3, original Xbox)
- SM 2.0x (ATI R300 series, Nvidia FX/5000 series)
- SM 3.0x (7th generation consoles, ATI R500 series, Nvidia 6000 series)

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win … ics-hlsl-models

This only applies to D3D of course, OpenGL is a different can of worms...
I am not sure, when they started to use the term “Shader Model”.

After approximately 2006, the new consoles (fortunately) set a long lasting standard.

Things were (and still are) somewhat confusing, since some games used different rendering paths depending on the available hardware.

According to this very interesting document, Doom 3 used 5 different rendering paths!
https://fabiensanglard.net/doom3/renderer.php

Anyway, I think I am not going to dig any deeper...

03.08.2004 Doom 3 (DX7 render path available for GF4 MX cards. Really? Somehow I can't believe this...)

And yes, as some pointed out so politely: Of course I should have written something like "Render path for DX7 cards...". I stand corrected! 😉
And before I get another complaint: "DX7 card" = GF256, GF2, R7000...

Reply 15 of 31, by The Serpent Rider

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MdaCgaEga wrote:

02.12.2003 Prince of Persia: Sands of Time (No mention of a DX7 render path on the box. Can this be true for a 2003 game?)

Prince of Persia was developed for PlayStation 2 hardware primarily (best selling gaming platform, etc). Graphics Synthesizer in PS2 is a fixed function 3D accelerator without TnL engine, which has heavy emphasis on screen effects like motion blur and bloom. So no shaders and lots of things are done on CPU in software. On PC, it was much easier to implement all features with programmable shaders. And so they did.

On that note, you can totally add Metal Gear Solid 2 and Silent Hill 3 in that list, because they also use shaders to "simulate" PS2 hardware capabilities.

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Reply 16 of 31, by MdaCgaEga

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-11-11, 11:40:

Prince of Persia was developed for PlayStation 2 hardware primarily ...

Thanks for the good explanation!

I also found the answer to my own initial question: What games put the technology of the GF3 to good use?
Answer: Plenty of Xbox exclusives... Halo 1/2 and the first Forza Motorsport are good examples.
And on the PC? In the years 2001-2003 almost nothing. 2004-2006 was hit or miss. But the GF3 was 3 years old by 2004 and surpassed by much faster cards.

Reply 17 of 31, by Joseph_Joestar

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Back in 2002, Morrowind was one of the big budget games which clearly showcased the difference that pixel shaders can make.

Contemporary gaming magazines often had screenshots of the water on a GeForce 3/4 being compared to GeForce 2 and below. The difference was striking.

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Reply 18 of 31, by acl

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Just a question.
Why don't include GeForce 4 TI and Matrox Parhelia in the list ?
They are both DX8 capable hardware.
I think some Xabre and Volari were DX8 capable too.
<troll>GeForce FX were also good DX8 cards</troll>

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Reply 19 of 31, by The Serpent Rider

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Blood Rayne (2002) use decent amount of shaders. Which is not surprising from creators of video card killer - Nocturne.

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