VOGONS


Help to buy ISA sound card

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First post, by Christiano

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Hello friends,
I've been reading VOGONS forum recently because I'm interested in old technology.
I have the following computer at the countryside:
WIN 95, Celeron 400 and Voodoo 3 3000 AGP .

I want to add an ISA sound card and I found a few models that I can buy:

- "LabWay" LWHA151A00 with a Yamaha YMF719E-S chip

- AZTECH - I38-SN96103 Multimedia Pro 16 IIB-3D AZT2316R Pro 2.0 with CS4231A-KL codec

- Genius ESS ES1868F

- Crystal CS4237b

So.... which one has the best sound and support for Windows 95 environment ?
I also like to play games 😁
Thank you very much for your support !

Reply 1 of 20, by derSammler

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I'd opt for the Yamaha. And you may consider updating to Win98SE, as AGP support in Win95 is very, very primitive.

Reply 2 of 20, by Christiano

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derSammler wrote:

I'd opt for the Yamaha. And you may consider updating to Win98SE, as AGP support in Win95 is very, very primitive.

What do you mean with AGP support ?

I played NFS2SE with Glide, its very fast and beautiful 😀

I dont feel speed is a problem. I'll try some more games next time I go but I doubt I'll encounter bottlenecks.

Voodoo 3 AGP is clocked at 183 MHz.

Reply 4 of 20, by badmojo

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All of those cards except the Aztech, which I’ve never had a good experience with, would make fine cards for a PC of that era. I’d recommend buying them all, spending a few happy hours testing them, and then choosing the one you like best.

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 5 of 20, by schmatzler

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I'd recommend an Opti Mad16 Pro. It's got great compatibility with DOS games (you can run almost everything without problems on this thing):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okxN4GVLJRI

Win95 drivers work well for newer games, too (unless you really want to use a Force Feedback joystick, that's too much for the old beast).

"Windows 98's natural state is locked up"

Reply 6 of 20, by Christiano

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Woolie Wool wrote:

I recommend a Sound Blaster AWE64 for its excellent compatibility and simple, easy to use drivers.

I talk to a vintage collector here locally and he told me he has a few AWE sound boards but the price he ask for a piece is very high!

Also out of question is buying more than one. I just want to add a board to that comp and enjoy playing here and then.

Also the same guy promised me he will search for an Yamaha ISA board and sell it to me for 8 $.

Looking forward ;;)

Reply 7 of 20, by appiah4

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Of the cards you list the ES1868 is probably the best for a retro newcomer, and is my overall favorite for 486 and earlier ISA PnP machines.

Reply 8 of 20, by gdjacobs

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If they're cheap enough, why not get more than one?

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 9 of 20, by appiah4

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gdjacobs wrote:

If they're cheap enough, why not get more than one?

Yeah exactly. I started collecting these only a few years ago I now have over 30 of them. *facepalm*

Reply 10 of 20, by jheronimus

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Christiano wrote:

"LabWay" LWHA151A00 with a Yamaha YMF719E-S chip

This.

- it will have real OPL3 as well as decent software wavetable synthesis (Windows only);
- its Windows drivers are really easy to use (DOS drivers are another story, unfortunately);
- it should have nice sound quality.

MR BIOS catalog
Unicore catalog

Reply 11 of 20, by Christiano

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Thank you all for the answers. I'll post back after I would have buy and tried the card on the computer.

Reply 12 of 20, by walterg74

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jheronimus wrote:
This. […]
Show full quote
Christiano wrote:

"LabWay" LWHA151A00 with a Yamaha YMF719E-S chip

This.

- it will have real OPL3 as well as decent software wavetable synthesis (Windows only);
- its Windows drivers are really easy to use (DOS drivers are another story, unfortunately);
- it should have nice sound quality.

Hi there, would you mind elaborating what “will have *real* OPL3” means..?

I am wanting to buy a card, and I found several that have ess or opti or crystal chip, but also a Yamaha chip on it. Are these not also real opl, or what amI not understanding?

Thanks!

Reply 13 of 20, by Tiido

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Yamaha made the original OPL series FM chips, Crystal, OPTi, ESS, Creative and possibly others eventually made their own mostly compatible variations but they don't sound the same as original.

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
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mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 14 of 20, by gdjacobs

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There are two ways that sound card chip makers implemented OPL3 sound.
1) Use a Yamaha synthesizer chip or 100% copy.
2) Create a clone implementation which may not be the same.

Option 1) includes all FM synthesizer chips that were manufactured by or branded as Yamaha, including the Creative Labs CT1747 bus chip and the integrated OPL3 chip Aztech produced. It also includes these illegal chips.
http://www.os2museum.com/wp/opl3-copies/

Option 2) includes the OPL3 implementations by Creative (CQM), ESS (ESFM), Crystal, CMI, Opti, and more.
OPL3 implementations (ESFM, Crystal FM, dual OPL3 etc)

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 15 of 20, by walterg74

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Tiido wrote:

Yamaha made the original OPL series FM chips, Crystal, OPTi, ESS, Creative and possibly others eventually made their own mostly compatible variations but they don't sound the same as original.

Right, thing is the cards I’m looking at have their own chip (ess, crystal, etc) but also the yamaha 262 chip

Last edited by walterg74 on 2018-04-24, 01:35. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 16 of 20, by 33oldnew

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With my cards, I like two together in the system:
Media Vision Pro Sonic 16 Jazz16S - for sound
Turtle Beach Pinnacle - for midi music

Reply 17 of 20, by gdjacobs

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walterg74 wrote:
Tiido wrote:

Yamaha made the original OPL series FM chips, Crystal, OPTi, ESS, Creative and possibly others eventually made their own mostly compatible variations but they don't sound the same as original.

Right, thing is the fards I’m looking at have their own chip (ess, crystal, etc) but also the yamaha 262 chip

Yes. The ESS 688 and Crystal CS4232, for instance, provide SB Pro emulation but not OPL3. It's not built in for those chips, so they need a Yamaha FM chip, an illegal knockoff (which usually sounds identical), or a legal clone chip to provide OPL3 functionality. The ESS ES1688, ES1868, ES1869, and ES1938 Solo 1 all use the ESS ESFM OPL3 clone built in to the main chip. The Crystal CS4235, CS4236, and CS4237 have Crystal FM built in.

Most other manufacturers followed a similar path where earlier controller chips worked alongside separate OPL3 chips and later models incorporated the house OPL3 flavour as sound cards were further integrated to cut costs.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 18 of 20, by walterg74

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Also gotta check because unfirtunately in my country, can’t seem to find any midi cards

Reply 19 of 20, by badmojo

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Having a real OPL3 isn't a hard and fast rule, some of the clones sound great. And there are lots of options for MIDI these days thanks to this guy:

https://www.serdashop.com/

Or you can find period correct external units / daughter boards without too much trouble. Or you could go the AWE route, and / or try out countless excellent sound fonts.

The world is your oyster.

Life? Don't talk to me about life.