An AWE32/SB32 with at least 4MB of RAM and decent patchset (like VoiceCrystal) can sound pretty good (would have to run under Windows 9x to redirect the MPU-401 to internal synth while SF2 patches are loaded).

Of course, the "Holy Grail" of sorts is something from Roland Sound Canvas family, but be prepared to pay, especially if you want it for an ISA slots (SCC-1A) . If you can live with external version (preferably an SC-55, but an SC-88 gives a reasonable approximation), you can hook it up to any sound card with an MPU-401 compatible MIDI out (if you want a bug free experience with an SB card , make sur DSP version is either 4.05 OR 4.16) .

SB Pro 2.0 + whatever Roland Midi device you can get. SCC-1 if it has to be internal.

mpe wrote on 2020-04-19, 21:44:

SB Pro 2.0 + whatever Roland Midi device you can get. SCC-1 if it has to be internal.

You can use an SB Pro 2.0 , but they are expensive and will have to run Softmpu (which requires emm386.exe ) in order to have a MPU-401 compatibility . As long as all the the games you want to play have no issues with emm386.exe, that is definitely an option .

SCC-1 and SCC-1A are terribly expensive (around 500 US dollars) unless you get lucky . SC-55 and SC-88 are around the 200 US dollar mark .

well you have 2 options OP when it comes to driving that mt32:
a. use SOFTMPU with whatever soundcard you get since your 486 can handle the overhead
b. get a hardware solution either an old one or a new made one like hardmpu or pcmidi and drive your mt-32 this way (I have pcmidi info in my signature)
8bit ISA cards will work fine in 16bit slots btw

Personally I would use a SB PRO2 or a nice non-pnp SB16 like the CT2230 with that system as a main soundcard.

From what you write, you can use whatever ISA sound card you find, as long as it has a gameport supporting MIDI and is not too new. They will all work fine in a 486 for these games. SB Pro 2.0, ESS1688 or ESS1868, Aztech, whatever. I would highly avoid the SB16 however, as it has not only a buggy MIDI interface, but also does not offer Stereo sound unless the game has support for SB16 - making it a bad card for DOS games on a 486.

Just want to point out that a SB Pro 2.0 does not have a UART Mode MPU-401 MIDI interface. Although you can use SoftMPU by specifying the /OUTPUT:SBMIDI parameter, game compatibility might be reduced.

LucasArts games range from Maniac Mansion to The Dig and in between there are a million different sound standards to take into acount. However, for these games you want to have the following:

1. Decent Adlib/Sound Blaster compatibility
2. No MPU-401 Bug
3. MT-32 MIDI support
4. General MIDI support
5. No DMA clicking
6. Clean Line Out

If you want a relatively inexpensive single device solution, there is only one card I know that does all this, and it's an AWE64. People will tell you otherwise but AWE64's CQM is a passable as an FM Synth. The AWE MIDI Synth on it can emulate GM or MT-32 in DOS, and its MT-32 emulation should be good enough for Monkey Island 1 at the very least. In games where you really benefit from having GM over MT-32, (Star Wars) you will also have AWE32 support so you will be fine.

If you can go for a multi-device solution, then get a relatively cheaper Yamaha YMF71x, ESS ES1688/1868 or Crystal CS4236/37 and invest the money saved (like, many many times the money saved) in a real MT-32 and some General MIDI module.

jesolo wrote on 2020-04-20, 12:51:

Just want to point out that a SB Pro 2.0 does not have a UART Mode MPU-401 MIDI interface. Although you can use SoftMPU by specifying the /OUTPUT:SBMIDI parameter, game compatibility might be reduced.

darry pointed that out already. Not a big deal, since for MT-32, you'll need SoftMPU anyway, no matter which sound card you have, because almost all games supporting MT-32 require intelligent mode.

Thanks guys, I have spend the day reading up on your suggestions.
I forgot to mention one thing that is important. This PC will run DOS 6.22 and WIN 3.11
So, AWE32/SB32 would not be a good choice without W95?

The SC-55 is definitely an option and other Roland’s if I get a good deal on it. I will read up about the SC-88 tonight. thanks for the tip.
The SB Pro 2.0 is a bit pricey. Is it really necessarily to run together with the Roland’s?

I will use SoftMPU for sure.
I like the fact that CT2230 has OPL and an OK-ish price.

ES1688/1868 is very tempting with the low pricing. But wouldn’t I miss the OPL?

And while we are at it discussing the Rolands. Is there any interesting experiments worth trying by hooking up other synths with Midi? Like my modern KORG’s? Or is that just silly?

Thanks again, this forum is awesome

ES1688/1868 cards are 100% SB Pro 2.0 compatible and their FM implementation is very true to the OPL3. Some games have special support for ESFM and will sound even better than OPL3. But once you use an external MIDI box, it's no longer relevant anyway.

You don't need any special sound card to connect a Roland MIDI device. The only requirement is a gameport with MIDI support (there were very few cards whose gameport has no MIDI functionality). SoftMPU is needed for games requiring intelligent MPU-401 instead of UART - this is independent of the sound card. There were also MIDI interface cards which intelligent mode in hardware, but since you can load SoftMPU on a 486, you don't need such a card.

I use AWE32 under DOS and it is excellent. Yes you lose soundfont support, but the pcspk input, genuine opl through emu8k effects, direct awe support, and the default soundbank files which work OK in some games, combine to make a pretty awesome card. It's also a ct3900 which means no PnP. I have an awe64gold in win98 and ot sounds great with soundfonts, but I never use it's opl emulation.

I own the ct3900, too. Yes, it's a nice card (and a *very* long one 😉). But it's affected by the hanging notes bug (so bad for connecting a MIDI device), wasted in DOS since you can't make use of extra RAM for sound fonts, and you won't get Stereo sound out of any game up to 1993 - and even then only if there's an SB16/AWE option for SFX.

The AWE cards really need Win9x to use them the right way.

derSammler wrote on 2020-04-20, 20:34:

I own the ct3900, too. Yes, it's a nice card (and a *very* long one 😉). But it's affected by the hanging notes bug (so bad for connecting a MIDI device), wasted in DOS since you can't make use of extra RAM for sound fonts, and you won't get Stereo sound out of any game up to 1993 - and even then only if there's an SB16/AWE option for SFX.

The AWE cards really need Win9x to use them the right way.

Doesn't everyone here have a HardMPU or MusicQuest clone by now? That's what I use alongside it 😉

And I think the stereo argument has been debunked several times. Once games started actually using stereo effects they mostly already supported the SB16. At least I have not run into this issue yet. I have other DOS builds I can throw a SB Pro2 into if need be.

epictronics wrote on 2020-04-20, 20:16:

The SB Pro 2.0 is a bit pricey. Is it really necessarily to run together with the Roland’s?

You could go for a SBPro compatible card instead. Most of them have a bug-free MIDI interface and a WSS mode for 16-bit sound. Some also have a genuine OPL3 chip (or a perfect copy) while others use their own, custom solutions for FM synthesis (like the later ESS cards).

A Yamaha Audician 32 is a solid choice, and it has a genuine OPL3 core. Personally, I'm partial to Opti and Avance Logic cards, but they tend to be a bit on the noisy side. If that doesn't bother you, the Avance Logic ALS100 (without the +) is probably the best all around card, with excellent SB16 and SBPro compatibility and no issues with stereo playback.

The AWE32 is a very decent DOS card. I bought my AWE in 1994 as it arrived on market, long time before Win95.

With this card you have native, 100% support for all DOS games: Adlib, SB, SB Pro (mono only, doesn‘t matter!), SB16, AWE.
The GM and MT32 emulation is mostly disappointing. Lucas Games with AWE support mostly present the AWE Wavetable from its chocolate side.
The CQM is in my opinion a very good copy of OPL3. The big advantage of CQM is, that you get cards with it much cheaper than the versions with OPL3 circuit.

The big disadvantage of the AWE32 is the HNB - very frustrating with external Wavetable via MPU. There you have two options: 1) plug in an additional MIDI card like keropi described or 2) take an AWE64.
If you accept to go with softMPU, then you will be very happy with an AWE64 +MT32 for a reasonable price.

You will find a lot of better options - but much more expensive for mostly minor advantages.

Read up this excellent comparison of different Creative Labs cards and their sound quality including recordings of the dreaded single cycle DMA clicking bug:
http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2015/05/1 … t-playback.html

While the Vibra based cards prevent single cycle DMA clicking and have very low noise, they have other audio distortion issues (CT250x clipping, Vibra ringing/hissing artifacts).

Personally, for LucasArts Games on a 486 i'd go with a period correct Sound Blaster Pro (CT1330A) or Pro 2 (CT1600).

For the MIDI MPU-401 compatible interface i have and recommend a dedicated card: Keropi's PC MIDI card. Works perfectly and highly recommended. No issues, no software, no bugs, no trouble. He is here at Vogons and already replied to this thread. Contact him for pricing and availability.

This combination including an MT-32 will set you back a few hundred dollars, so maybe it's not perfect for your needs. For less money there were a few nice solutions already mentioned, especially if you can live with an OPL clone like CQM or ESS.

Is there a list of games with bad single cycle dma issues on sb16s? So i know which ones to play on my awe64 or audician32.

appiah4 wrote on 2020-04-20, 16:24:

LucasArts games range from Maniac Mansion to The Dig and in between there are a million different sound standards to take into a […]
Show full quote

LucasArts games range from Maniac Mansion to The Dig and in between there are a million different sound standards to take into acount. However, for these games you want to have the following:

1. Decent Adlib/Sound Blaster compatibility
2. No MPU-401 Bug
3. MT-32 MIDI support
4. General MIDI support
5. No DMA clicking
6. Clean Line Out

If you want a relatively inexpensive single device solution, there is only one card I know that does all this, and it's an AWE64. People will tell you otherwise but AWE64's CQM is a passable as an FM Synth. The AWE MIDI Synth on it can emulate GM or MT-32 in DOS, and its MT-32 emulation should be good enough for Monkey Island 1 at the very least. In games where you really benefit from having GM over MT-32, (Star Wars) you will also have AWE32 support so you will be fine.

IMO a Terratec EWS64 XL does all of that but much better. Crystal FM is better than CQM, 1:1 Roland GM with the BANK4M.94B soundfont (seriously its a copy of the Roland Sound Canvas Patch set), additional waveblaster header, Sound Blaster Pro 2 compatible and the soundfont does a better MT-32 job than AWEUTIL will ever do.

darry wrote on 2020-04-19, 22:03:

You can use an SB Pro 2.0 , but they are expensive and will have to run Softmpu (which requires emm386.exe ) in order to have a MPU-401 compatibility . As long as all the the games you want to play have no issues with emm386.exe, that is definitely an option .

A SB Pro compatible card (with actual MPU-401 UART support) would be okay. To the best of my knowledge, none of the LucasArts titles, even the early ones, require intelligent mode. Some of them do well with wavetable devices that implement the default MT-32 instrument set. IJFA, for instance.