AdamP wrote:

Is it different on the AWE64?

My research shows me, yes it is! But I wasn't able to confirm it "hands on" yet because my PC has optical in but the AWE64 has coax out...

I'm interested in SB16s, but I'm not going to test any more of them. 😉 I have an AWE64, and I like it. It works well in speedy KT133A mobos, unlike the AWE32 which tends to "click and pop" a bit.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I will do a FM music comparision video soon though. I always wondered "how different" the AWE64 FM sounds compared to the OPL chip.

Check out the attached program. It plays OPL music files.

You'll understand why people want real OPL if you do such a test.

OPL emulation sounds generally just as bad as a generic wavetable daughterboard sounds to a Roland SCD-15. You just aren't hearing what you were MEANT to hear.

samudra wrote:

if you do such a test.

Check it out: FM Synth (Soundblaster) comparison using Monkey Island 2!

I found that my DB50XG will occasionally emit a high pitched noise when on my CT1740. It must be some wrong note issue. It sounds almost like the whine of a noisy CRT. I'm pretty much done with SB16 of any sort at this point.

swaaye wrote:

I'm pretty much done with SB16 of any sort at this point.

Yup plenty of other options around!

Did the community ever come to a consensus on what the best host sound card is for a MIDI daughterboard?

Well there's that thread with the Audio Excel (CMI 8330 ISA) card. It does SB16 too. But these cards are not super easy to find.

I just put the Vortex 2 in and have the DB attached to that. It works well enough. I also have a Soundscape in the PC right now.

HunterZ wrote:

Did the community ever come to a consensus on what the best host sound card is for a MIDI daughterboard?

I don't think there will ever be a consensus 🤣

It's quite personal to be honest.

I'm a Creative and Roland fanboy if you like. If you have to use a wavetable board I would recommend a Roland MPU401AT. It has RCA ports at the back, avoiding having to go through a cheap mixer on a Sound Card.

However I prefer external Midi modules anyway. A Roland Sound Canvas is a must for any DOS Retro Gamer 🤣

For newer DOS Games I recommend:

AWE64 for speech / Sound effects
Roland MPU401 or compatible Midi adapter
Various Roland midi modules (MT-32 and General Midi)

For older DOS Games I recommend a Creative Labs SB Pro 2.0 or SB16 / AWE32 with OPL3 chip.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

However I prefer external Midi modules anyway. A Roland Sound Canvas is a must for any DOS Retro Gamer 🤣

Yeah, that's why I broke down and bought an MT-32 and an SC-88 and stopped messing with anything else.

I feel like I should also be on the lookout for a CM-64, but my understanding is that there are very few games that take special advantage of it over the MT-32. I don't like the lack of front-panel display on the CM-64 either, especially since lots of old games put neat little text messages on the MT-32 display.

External modules are great because you can use them with real Retro Hardware AND with DOSBox on a modern machine (USB midi cable)...

There a ton of different MT-32 and compatible (The CM series) modules around.

You really want to have a MT-32 (old) which is the one without the headphone socket. Many games (Most games from Sierra and Dynamix, Wing Commander and others) only sound 100% right on that module.

The volume dial also acts differently. In the old unit it basically affects the digital volume before it gets converted and amplified, in the newer unit it affects the analogue volume after the DA conversion.

Games such as Wing Commander clip (e.g. during the intro) and changing the volume on a newer unit doesn't help. You can send a sysex command to the unit to reduce the "internal" volume or just just use a MT-32 (old) and reduce the volume at the front.

It does suffer from Buffer overflows with many games however. Nothing you can do, apart from using a newer midi module or using a special built of DOSBox which in effect talks to the MT-32 in a speed that doesn't make it give up 😀

Other games only sound 100% right or support extra sound effects on the CM series (CM-32L and CM-64). E.g. Monkey Island 2 when you are in the kitchen with the chef chopping something, the chopping sound is quite different on a CM unit and much simpler on a MT-32 unit. So you definitive want at least one CM unit! CM stands for Computer Music and Lucasarts I believe used these modules for (whereas Sierra used MT-32)

Finally there is the CM-500. Very expensive to obtain, for the same money you can get two or three other modules.

The dual PCB modules (CM-64 and CM-500) draw more power and are noisier than the CM-32L.

So all in all I would recommend getting a MT-32 (Old) and a CM-32L. CM-64 might be easier to find though (it was the easiest for me to get, CM-32L ware scarce when I was shopping...)

okido

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

External modules are great because you can use them with real Retro Hardware AND with DOSBox on a modern machine (USB midi cable)...

Agreed. Actually I've only really used mine with DOSBox! I do have a joystick-to-MIDI cable that I bought to interface a MIDI keyboard to Cakewalk back in college, but I never got a real synth for DOS games until I has given up pure DOS and NTVDM for DOSBox on WinXP.

I must have the older MT-32 because I've seen the volume dial behave in the way you describe. It makes the volume knob kind of useless for conventional use because the MT-32 doesn't always respond to my turning of the knob while music is playing.

There isn't a single Roland LA family synth on eBay.com at the moment. Tons of Sound Canvas family synths for sale for $100-200 though (SC-55, 55MkII, 88, 88Pro).

Roland is Japanese, so that's where most modules are!

I got a ton of modules within just a few weeks. Shipping is pricey, but hey you only live once and there are worse things you can spend your money on 🤣

To be sure just check the back for a headphone port. Or you press certain buttons while booting the unit and displays the ROM version. But yea the volume dial you described that sounds like an old unit...

Mau1wurf, have you listened to my recording of my SCD-15 and compared it to your SC-55mkII? There are some differences in how the notes played. It sounds very similar otherwise but I found it strange that some notes played differently. I noticed it in the first half of Dark Forces.

Not yet, but now hearing this from you I wil check it out!

There is also another way, you can use dosbox and route the midi to a PC with ISA slot using a Midi cable.
Then use Midi Ox or some other application that receives the Midi there using any soundcard and puts it on another Synth of maybe some retro ISA wavetable card in this PC.

This way you can connect every old soundcards playback to Dosbox on a modern PC.

swaaye wrote:

Well there's that thread with the Audio Excel (CMI 8330 ISA) card. It does SB16 too. But

I may have just acquired a CMI8330 based card. I think I'm going to put it in my Socket 7 rig.

And with that, I think I'll have my retro outfit satisfactorily complete.

My 486 66/S3 VLB rig has a CT2800 and an MT-32(old), so it can play OPL3 games, and MT-32 (Sierra and Lucasarts) games. The only welcome addition here would be some sort of intelligent MPU401. It seems like it'd be pretty straightforward to build the internal part of the MPU401, if you could find a breakout box cheaply?

My Pentium 133/VirgeDX rig will hopefully have this CMI8330, with an XR385 DB, so it can play games with GM support.

My P3 EB 1GHz/GF FX5200 rig has an SB Live which supports SoundFonts, and it runs Windows 98SE, so the DOS incompatibility doesn't matter so much.

I may build up a P4 Northwood with XP for DX8/9 gaming, but 99% of that stuff will run on my main Core i7 PC, so I might not bother with that one.

Edit: I have a feeling I may have my chronologies mixed up here... Also, I can't really afford an SC-55, so this DB is the best non-software MIDI wavetable I'll have for a long time.

OK, I have acquired the CMI8330 card, should arrive in the post tomorrow.

FWIW, I found out a few days ago that it's not just with a MIDI daughter board you can get the hanging note problem. I was playing KGB when things kinda went messed up so I used CTRL ALT DEL to make Windows kill the program and from there, I had to reboot because of a hung note. This was on my old Micron computer after I installed an SB16 in it. No clue on model number but I'll find that out later. This one has a SCSI port and an empty chip socket that is supposedly for some sort of upgrade chip.

😁