Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby shock__ » 2014-8-02 @ 16:21

I wouldn't concentrate on the 555* vs. 74LS* issue too much. I've built a Pentagon 128 using 74LS* only, when it was originally intended for 555/155 series.

Have you checked if the 8580 works in a C64C? It's common that broken chips get sold as "old new stock" or "tested & working" these days, since they fetch quite a bit - hey, it's also one of the few vintage chips that gets faked.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-02 @ 20:04

shock__ wrote:I wouldn't concentrate on the 555* vs. 74LS* issue too much.

I think you are right, but I have to check it anyway to be certain.

shock__ wrote:Have you checked if the 8580 works in a C64C?

I've got this 8580 from other man in Russia and he told me that he pulled it from working C64. Maybe bad handling or static discharge while shipping (packaging was not so great).
I will assemble another testing board and send it to him without SID - he have another working 8580. Then we should have a chance to proof something: either it's bad 8580 or bad schematics.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby shock__ » 2014-8-02 @ 21:56

If all else fails, I have a suitable PC (DX2-66) and a newer/older model C64 to test.
Shipping between Germany and Russia is kinda expensive I think tho.

I'll check out the comparision video about the machine speeds after the 6th, since I'm currently on a limited internet connection.

Either way, both thumbs up.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-02 @ 22:07

shock__ wrote:I'll check out the comparision video about the machine speeds after the 6th, since I'm currently on a limited internet connection.

There are downloadable .flac files, not videos. :happy:
And glitches on faster PCs are all the same, no difference between different platforms. Replica works well only on 386DX-40...
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-14 @ 07:40

Good news!
Again, with great help from borisfox I have patched scheme of the replica, and now it works well on every ISA-compatible machine (English subtitles will be added soon). :cool:

Tested on:
AMD Am386DX-40 @ Pine PT-321
Intel Pentium 233MMX @ Asus TX97-E
AMD K6-2/500 @ LuckyStar 5MVP3
Intel Celeron 333 @ Abit VA6
Intel Pentium III-S 1400 @ Abit VA6

Now I have to wait for 74HC192 to arrive to test some issues with clock divider: is 555IE6 fully compatible or not. Because PCB design was based on 555IE6 behavior.
One test sample is now shipping to man, who has working 8580 chip, he'll test replica with it.
Last edited by Fagear on 2016-7-04 @ 22:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby keropi » 2014-8-14 @ 08:36

great news!!!! glad you could find the fault :)
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Beegle » 2014-8-14 @ 18:51

It sounds super nice. Bravo!
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-18 @ 23:14

More good news!
MOS8580 works fine in the replica! Chip that I've got is certainly bad but replica has been tested with good chip and everything is fine. :cool:

But I have something else to check. First, I'm still waiting for 74HC192 to arrive (terribly slow postal service). Second, I didn't check joystick port at all! :neutral: Yes, it is not so critical, but it is there on the board, so I need to test it.

After all these test I have three PCBs available, two of them are partially assembled. They will have one post-production fix for high-speed PCs (short piece of wire on the backside).

I need to know: how many people are interested in this card?

Hard to tell about the price yet. First batch of PCBs was small and thus pretty expensive. If I will be ordering more PCBs they can get cheaper. Parts for first batch also were bought not at minimum price (delivery time vs. price). Replica has no bracket at all yet. I think it's needed but I have to find manufacturer and place an order, that will be added to the price (need your opinion about it).
I didn't calculate shipping price from Russia at all. Still have to come up with it.

So I want to hear, what form of this card do you prefer?
Bare PCB?
"PCB + parts" kit?
"PCB + parts + SID + bracket" kit?
Fully assembled board w/o SID and bracket?
Fully assembled board with SID and bracket?
Something else?
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby keropi » 2014-8-19 @ 06:57

I'd be interested in the pcb+parts kit
Is there a way to disable the joystick port on the card? I don't think it's needed by everyone (running it along a sb for example) and it will make the bracket easier to make. If there is a jumper for joystick enable/disable one can opt to not solder the port but still have the option in case he needs to add it in the future
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-19 @ 07:24

keropi wrote:Is there a way to disable the joystick port on the card?

Yes, you can disable joystick. Jumper in bottom left corner of the board. And also you can leave out NE558 and 74LS244.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Stojke » 2014-8-19 @ 07:44

I am interested into an "PCB + parts + SID + bracket" kit.
Note | LLSID | "Big boobs are important!"
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby shock__ » 2014-8-19 @ 09:51

PCB + parts kit seems like the best option to me. Bracket would be nice, but isn't something I must have in any case.
Maybe the guys over at nedopc.org (ru) might be able to help, as they've had smaller batches of their hardware with custom made brackets.

Could you post a stacked price chart for the PCBs (1, 5-10, 20)? Maybe I could help out with finding a producer.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-19 @ 15:55

I've managed to write some marketing crap for the replica. :lol:

Replica vs. original SSI-2001:
+ PCB is smaller
+ Fully manual PCB tracing: more accurate trace layout
+ Added extensive silkscreen onto PCB
+ Somewhat improved ground and power layout
+ Added ceramic caps for logic ICs across power rails
+ Ceramic/film capacitors now can be either with 2.5 or 5 mm pitch
+ All electrolytic caps now are radial
+ SID chip can now be either MOS6581 or MOS8580 (added footprint for optional +9 regulator)
+ SID clock now can be configured: 0.89 MHz (original SSI-2001) or 1.02 MHz (C64 NTSC)
+ "Audio in" of the SID is closed with 100 nF capacitor to ground (RF protection)
+ Added 1k resistor across output of the card: improved transient response on SID initializing and audio wave centering
+ Added internal audio output header
+ Output electrolytic capacitor now can be replaced with film one
+ Added connections for C64 joystick inputs (Pot X, Pot Y)
+ Schematic was improved to allow using this sound card in machines faster than 286/386
:cool:
Last edited by Fagear on 2014-8-19 @ 15:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby vetz » 2014-8-19 @ 15:57

I'm interested depending on what the price will turn out to be.

I'm more interested in a fully assembled card.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby shock__ » 2014-8-19 @ 17:47

Fagear wrote:I've managed to write some marketing crap for the replica. :lol:
+ Fully manual PCB tracing: more accurate trace layout
+ Added extensive silkscreen onto PCB
+ Somewhat improved ground and power layout
+ Added ceramic caps for logic ICs across power rails

With all this, I'd rather refer to this card as a compatible than a replica ... just a minor choice of words - and tbh a perfectly legit thing.
Fagear wrote:+ Added connections for C64 joystick inputs (Pot X, Pot Y)

Hm ... not too keen on the current implementation on the board with soldered variable resistors, as the POT X/Y analog registers were originally intended for paddle controllers/mice on the C64 ... maybe add a D-SUB9 header for those controllers or leave that feature out all together, as it was never used on the PC in the first place and there being more than enough more or less obscure mouse solutions?
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-19 @ 21:26

shock__ wrote:Could you post a stacked price chart for the PCBs (1, 5-10, 20)? Maybe I could help out with finding a producer.

Not exact numbers (and need to include currency conversion, all prices are initially in rubles), but something like this:
1 board ~ $59
5 boards ~ $84 ($16.6 per PCB)
10 boards ~ $114 ($11.3 per PCB)
20 boards ~ $170 ($8.5 per PCB)

shock__ wrote:maybe add a D-SUB9 header for those controllers

I think I can modify PCB in such way that you can install either variable resistors or 3 pin header per input. Maybe they could be united in one 7-pin (with one empty in the middle) header.

Gathering stats...
keropi - "PCB + parts" kit
Stojke - "PCB + parts + SID + bracket" kit
shock__ - "PCB + parts" kit
vetz - Fully assembled board with SID and bracket
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Cloudschatze » 2014-8-19 @ 22:22

Please put me down for a fully-assembled board (sans SID)...
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-19 @ 22:33

Cloudschatze wrote:Please put me down for a fully-assembled board (sans SID)...

With bracket or not?
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Cloudschatze » 2014-8-19 @ 22:51

Fagear wrote:
Cloudschatze wrote:Please put me down for a fully-assembled board (sans SID)...

With bracket or not?

With bracket.
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