VOGONS


Reply 2880 of 3018, by Stevogamer

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terryfi wrote on 2022-04-26, 19:12:
IcySon55 wrote on 2022-04-26, 16:14:
terryfi wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:18:

One of key issues this project did not gain much traction was the copyrighted ROM. I wonder why __shock or other main contributors didn't consider making the ROM optional.

It is optional isn't it? Based on earlier discussion above, the ROM chip is not required to use the card. As long as you have the SIMM slot and enough ram, you can load up the full sample set (for MIDI) and also the improved sample-based music playback. Unless I misread something?

Maybe I didn't elaborate enough. I was baffled why guys didn't bypass the ROM licensing issue by make it optional part of the product; manufacture and sell card fully assembled cards without ROM.

My guess is the whole point of the project is to clone the GUS PnP as close to the original as possible in function and was never meant to be a commercial product. But I could be wrong, just a guess.

Reply 2881 of 3018, by Shponglefan

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On a related note re: the (optional) IW78C21M1 chip, does anyone know if there is a SOP-44 pin socket available?

There was one listed on a BOM, but it's listed as obsolete: https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/Yamaichi- … AE4jEWT2w%3D%3D

I've tried finding a substitute, but with no luck.

I figure if the IW78C21M1 chip is optional, as least having a socket on the board might be a nice option to swap it in at a later date.

My YouTube channel (retro game music)

Reply 2882 of 3018, by Stevogamer

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Shponglefan wrote on 2022-04-26, 19:27:
On a related to the (optional) IW78C21M1 chip, does anyone know if there is a SOP-44 pin socket available? […]
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On a related to the (optional) IW78C21M1 chip, does anyone know if there is a SOP-44 pin socket available?

There was one listed on the BOM, but it's listed as obsolete: https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/Yamaichi- … AE4jEWT2w%3D%3D

I've tried finding a substitute, but with no luck.

I figure if the IW78C21M1 chip is optional, as least having a socket on the board might be a nice option to swap it in at a later date.

I like that idea. Would something like this work? It looks similar to me.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000823603901.html

On another note, if we were to solder on the 2 DRAM chips, would that make any difference compared to installing SIMMs in regards to ultrasound classic compatibility?

Reply 2884 of 3018, by Stevogamer

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Sunoo wrote on 2022-04-26, 22:41:

$25 for a socket, yikes.

Yeah 🙁

Interestingly enough I also stumbled upon it on back-order at RS Components for HK while searching the part. Seems like in Asia they still list it. But it's also roughly $25.

Reply 2885 of 3018, by terryfi

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I read in this thread that SOJ ram is for Classic GUS compatibility, does this mean that having SIMM ram enabled the compatibility breaks? Also for SIMM I see only 16 MB is used; do smaller SIMMs work too?

Reply 2886 of 3018, by MJay99

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terryfi wrote on 2022-04-26, 22:53:

I read in this thread that SOJ ram is for Classic GUS compatibility, does this mean that having SIMM ram enabled the compatibility breaks? Also for SIMM I see only 16 MB is used; do smaller SIMMs work too?

If you use unisound for initialization you can use the /XGL flag to limit the RAM:

"- Added new eXtended option for GUS PnP (/XGL) to limit RAM to 512K for compatibility with some games."

This way, even 16MB won't cause issues for those (very few) games affected by this issue. Smaller SIMMs do work, too, 16MB is just the upper limit.

Reply 2887 of 3018, by 640K!enough

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terryfi wrote on 2022-04-26, 22:53:

I read in this thread that SOJ ram is for Classic GUS compatibility, does this mean that having SIMM ram enabled the compatibility breaks? Also for SIMM I see only 16 MB is used; do smaller SIMMs work too?

If somebody actually said that, it's not correct. On InterWave, you need some RAM for GUS compatibility, whereas some native-mode functionality is still available without RAM (though that isn't something you really want to try, and those are usually configurations including the ROM). The particular chip package is entirely irrelevant; if it's connected correctly, not defective, and IWINIT can find it, then it will be available in native mode and GUS-compatibility mode. The only real restriction is that, like a real legacy GUS, compatibility mode offers only up to 1 MiB, regardless of the amount installed. On the current design, using SOJ DRAM ICs exclusively limits you to a maximum of 4 MiB.

Most 5V 72-pin SIMMs containing FPM or EDO DRAM will work. In the case of dual-rank SIMMs, only half of the capacity will be available. There is the odd incompatibility, but it is not common.

Reply 2888 of 3018, by terryfi

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Synoptic wrote on 2022-04-25, 22:24:
terryfi wrote on 2022-04-25, 22:20:
Synoptic wrote on 2022-04-25, 21:58:

The SDK is there : http://dk.toastednet.org/GUS/SOURCE%20CODE/IWSDK20.ZIP
and a bunch of useful stuff in there too : http://dk.toastednet.org/GUS/SOURCE%20CODE/
Maybe someone could make a ROM out of the .DAT files from the patch files ?

I can't find any .DAT in SDK zip file, can you elaborate the location please?

My mistake, The dat files I am referring to are the .PAT files. Sorry for the confusion

Synoptic, I was watching LGR's video showing your card; the SMD/SMT work is very clean.
It would be great if you could share with us your technique. Maybe solder paste, hot air and preheater plate?

Reply 2889 of 3018, by esver

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I've finished my Gusar 2021 and I want to share it :

PXL_20220329_143744192.jpg
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PXL_20220329_143744192.jpg
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1.52 MiB
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424 views
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Public domain

Special thanks shock__ for all the work.

Reply 2890 of 3018, by Synoptic

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terryfi wrote on 2022-04-29, 02:17:
Synoptic wrote on 2022-04-25, 22:24:
terryfi wrote on 2022-04-25, 22:20:

I can't find any .DAT in SDK zip file, can you elaborate the location please?

My mistake, The dat files I am referring to are the .PAT files. Sorry for the confusion

Synoptic, I was watching LGR's video showing your card; the SMD/SMT work is very clean.
It would be great if you could share with us your technique. Maybe solder paste, hot air and preheater plate?

Hot air station, I have a really cheap and not recommended one. No solder paste, just flux ans > 20 years of hobby experience.

If you want recommendations, watch some Louis Rossman videos.

Reply 2892 of 3018, by shock__

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Shponglefan wrote on 2022-04-26, 19:27:
On a related note re: the (optional) IW78C21M1 chip, does anyone know if there is a SOP-44 pin socket available? […]
Show full quote

On a related note re: the (optional) IW78C21M1 chip, does anyone know if there is a SOP-44 pin socket available?

There was one listed on a BOM, but it's listed as obsolete: https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/Yamaichi- … AE4jEWT2w%3D%3D

I've tried finding a substitute, but with no luck.

I figure if the IW78C21M1 chip is optional, as least having a socket on the board might be a nice option to swap it in at a later date.

Reworking is faster and less of a hassle than those sockets. I've had one on one of the first prototypes and yikes ... expensive and kind of a gamble to end up with proper contact when swapping chips is a 5 minute deal when they're soldered.
As seen here:
mADokIn.jpg
(don't mind the goofy looking RAM, I tested whether 72->30 pin adapters would work - which they do ... fugly as hell tho)

Also notice how the pads for the IW-ROM are quite enlarged in the latest revision(s)? Everyone is welcome to put SMD headers there and design daughterboards that adapt the SOP-44 pinout to more accessible formats/pinouts. The "GUS Defiant" Prototype used 2 8Bit ROMs on a daughterboard:
x_e6bd06c7.jpg
While the GUS PnP has a pinout for a 16bit DIP FlashROM that was never used to my knowledge (also seems to be some obscure type which I never figured out and had very little interest in to begin with)

I guess this is still considered a product rather than a project? Ever wondered about all the pin headers near the ISA port?
I've offered to publically release a cut down Eagle .pcb/gerber file allowing to get the measures for daughterboards, but got no inquiries in 7 years so far.

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

[Z?]

Reply 2893 of 3018, by Stevogamer

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Synoptic wrote on 2022-04-29, 12:18:
terryfi wrote on 2022-04-29, 02:17:
Synoptic wrote on 2022-04-25, 22:24:

My mistake, The dat files I am referring to are the .PAT files. Sorry for the confusion

Synoptic, I was watching LGR's video showing your card; the SMD/SMT work is very clean.
It would be great if you could share with us your technique. Maybe solder paste, hot air and preheater plate?

Hot air station, I have a really cheap and not recommended one. No solder paste, just flux ans > 20 years of hobby experience.

If you want recommendations, watch some Louis Rossman videos.

I recall he recommended an Atten branded unit which looks like a fine machine. But it's a lot of money from all vendors; a good investment though if somebody plans on doing a lot of SMD stuff.

I can agree on not really recommending those cheap hot air stations too. I have a cheapo one that can't even regulate heat properly anymore.

Reply 2894 of 3018, by Kahenraz

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I had an expensive hot air station at one point, but I sold it and bought a cheap Chinese one and it works just fine for minor rework. The times I struggle with it are due to lower ambient temperature, when the board has many layers, or there is a very large ground plane. All of this issues are better solved by a pre-heater, as cranking up the temperature would only be addressing the symptom and not the problem.

I still have yet to buy a pre-heater. I really want one

Reply 2895 of 3018, by stacker139

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Sorry shock__, I forgot to ask
Could you publicly post a reduced Eagle .pcb/gerber file to get the measurements for a daughterboard with ISA8, ISA16, ESP, MPC, P45, IW (MidiTx), CON (MidiRx), X1, X2, X3, and other high component position ?

Last edited by stacker139 on 2022-05-03, 23:08. Edited 1 time in total.

Project: SB-XXXL, Extensive Sound Cards System

Reply 2896 of 3018, by Sunoo

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IcySon55 wrote on 2022-04-25, 04:35:

Alright, here we go.

This CSV BOM includes everything minus the IW78C21M1 chip, the DRAM chips, the optional components, and whatever the NotConnected resistors /would/ be.

I think I found an issue with what you grabbed. For the amplifier, you have a TI TPA152DR, but that seems to have a completely different pinout than the MS6308 or TDA1308 specified. Unless I'm mistaken, the STM TS482IDT should be pin compatible though, and appears in stock at Mouser. Not sure if anyone has a better suggestion though.