VOGONS


Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Topic actions

Reply 20 of 199, by clueless1

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
James-F wrote:
Only games that use the SBPro mixer to change the volume or panning, similar to what you do in DOS command line with the sbp-set […]
Show full quote

Does it have to be duke 3d? I thought all game volume controls are affected?

Only games that use the SBPro mixer to change the volume or panning, similar to what you do in DOS command line with the sbp-set.exe.
Duke3D and Wolf3D are known to use the SBPro mixer for volume (duke) and panning for stereo (wolf).

Confirmed on my Audician.

Thanks, so it is universal to the YMF71x chip.

Interesting. Try changing SB to other settings. It seems to work fine when set to 1, 2, 3, then at 4, it seems that the digital volume seems to max out at around 60%. I'm guessing the higher you set SB, the lower the volume slider in Duke maxes out volume.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 21 of 199, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
clueless1 wrote:

Interesting. Try changing SB to other settings. It seems to work fine when set to 1, 2, 3, then at 4, it seems that the digital volume seems to max out at around 60%. I'm guessing the higher you set SB, the lower the volume slider in Duke maxes out volume.

Yes, this is exactly what I written earlier:

me wrote:

Setting SB to 1 doesn't actually lower any volume of the emulated SBPro but gives the other sliders more range,

SB on 1 give the other slider maximum range and let them behave like a normal SBPro or SB16 card.


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 22 of 199, by clueless1

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
James-F wrote:
Yes, this is exactly what I written earlier: […]
Show full quote
clueless1 wrote:

Interesting. Try changing SB to other settings. It seems to work fine when set to 1, 2, 3, then at 4, it seems that the digital volume seems to max out at around 60%. I'm guessing the higher you set SB, the lower the volume slider in Duke maxes out volume.

Yes, this is exactly what I written earlier:

me wrote:

Setting SB to 1 doesn't actually lower any volume of the emulated SBPro but gives the other sliders more range,

SB on 1 give the other slider maximum range and let them behave like a normal SBPro or SB16 card.

Gotcha. I didn't make the connection with what you said til I tried it for myself. 😀

ou don't even have to drop it in the AUDICIAN folder, setupsa.exe takes care of everything automatically including the Path and Blaster in autoexec.bat from anywhere.
You can keep it in the OPL3SAX folder and simply run setupsa.exe.

At some point, I think I renamed the OPL3SAX folder to AUDICIAN, so that's why I said that. At any rate, it's in my autoexec.bat path so I just type 'setupsa' from anywhere.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 23 of 199, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Phil can you please make a new thread from my "News Flash about a bug in the Yamaha YMF71x Mixer" post.
This is off topic and deserves its own thread.

Yamaha YMF71x mixer bug FIXED, would be a nice name.


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 24 of 199, by clueless1

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

So I have two DOS systems: one with an Audician and the other with a SB16 Vibra CT2800. They share the same speakers and I use an audio switcher to go back and forth between them. I like both systems to be at close to identical mix levels, so if I play the same game on both systems and switch between them, the levels are consistent. Here are the mixer settings it took to achieve this:

mixerset.jpg
Filename
mixerset.jpg
File size
2.42 MiB
Views
1650 views
File comment
SB16 Vibra CT2800
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

The CT2800 is not as loud as the Audician, and digital effects are noticably louder than FM. So I adjust the Voice down by two ticks while keeping Master maxed out.

setupsa.jpg
Filename
setupsa.jpg
File size
1.29 MiB
Views
1650 views
File comment
Audician YMF718
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Since the Audician is louder, I adjust master down from 15 to 12 to bring it equal to the CT2800 at maxed out Master. The difference between digital effects and FM is not noticeable to me on the Audician, so those stay mixed at the same level (maxed at 7). Per James observations, I set SB to 1. With these settings, I can switch between the two on the same game audio and notice almost no difference volume-wise. The biggest difference is much more hiss on the CT2800 compared to the Audician.

With these mixer settings, my speakers "max out" with the knob at about 35-40%. By max out, I mean that's as loud as I can comfortably have them while playing a game.

Anyhow, this was part of what I was doing today while helping with some of the things we were discussing in this thread and I thought it would be interesting to share.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 25 of 199, by PhilsComputerLab

User metadata
Rank Hardware Mod
Rank
Hardware Mod
clueless1 wrote:

What I'm trying to say is the CD version has the pure DOS installer, yes. But the version of SETUPSA is newer on the 31v2329.exe file, but cannot be installed on a pure DOS system without first unpacking it on a Win31 system. So if you unpacked the drivers to an installed state from 31v2329.exe, then a DOS user could simply drop the updated files in their AUDICIAN folder in their DOS system without having find a Win31 system to unpack them on.

Oh that's what you mean, sure, I'll add them 😀

Though I'm wondering if maybe the DOS mixer / tools from the Windows 98 drivers are even newer?

EDIT: OPL3SAX.zip from James have odd settings in the INI file.

Preset=0
Ymersion=7
Bass=7
Treble=7
YMode=0

YouTube, Facebook, Website

Reply 26 of 199, by clueless1

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
PhilsComputerLab wrote:
clueless1 wrote:

What I'm trying to say is the CD version has the pure DOS installer, yes. But the version of SETUPSA is newer on the 31v2329.exe file, but cannot be installed on a pure DOS system without first unpacking it on a Win31 system. So if you unpacked the drivers to an installed state from 31v2329.exe, then a DOS user could simply drop the updated files in their AUDICIAN folder in their DOS system without having find a Win31 system to unpack them on.

Oh that's what you mean, sure, I'll add them 😀

Though I'm wondering if maybe the DOS mixer / tools from the Windows 98 drivers are even newer?

I can't remember for sure, but I *think* the drivers I was using were from the Win98 set, and they were older by a few months (4/97 vs 7/97). It seems the drivers on the CD were from late 1996?

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 27 of 199, by PhilsComputerLab

User metadata
Rank Hardware Mod
Rank
Hardware Mod

Good to know. I will check it out during the next Windows 98 project, but I think all these versions have that mixer bug. At least there is a straight forward fix for it now 😀

YouTube, Facebook, Website

Reply 28 of 199, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
PhilsComputerLab wrote:
EDIT: OPL3SAX.zip from James have odd settings in the INI file. […]
Show full quote

EDIT: OPL3SAX.zip from James have odd settings in the INI file.

Preset=0
Ymersion=7
Bass=7
Treble=7
YMode=0

It was a fresh install so everything is at default.
Yet it doesn't matter, all can be changed from inside setupsa.exe.

I updated the zip file with the following:
Preset=0
Ymersion=0
Bass=0
Treble=0
YMode=3
But all other settings are still at default anyway.

I also removed the windirpath parameter so setupsa will not complain, so the OPL3SAX I attached is for DOS only.
In windows people should install a different driver from the official Yamaha site.

Last edited by James-F on 2016-09-19, 04:01. Edited 1 time in total.


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 30 of 199, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Changes the 3D type sound.
It does not have an effect when Ymersion set to 0.
But just in case 3=Hi-Fi which is the bypass mode.

All can be changed from within setupsa, no need to dig around in the ini.
In the 3D section, setting Preset to Manual and everything to 0 should give an effect free clear accurate sound.


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 31 of 199, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
clueless1 wrote:
setupsa.jpg

Actually , Master VOL at 12 results in standard line level voltage.
So this is indeed the proper setting if compared to modern sound cads output, or consumer line level (red/white RCA plugs from any device).

The OPL3SAX from the Wind9x version has different size than the 3.11 version, but it is also older.
It adds nothing new and crashes when the windirpath line is removed from the opl3sa.ini file, apparently it is dependent on window9x and not entirely for DOS.
I'd stick to the OPL3SAX from the Windows 3.11 setup, as it is bug free and clearly states the it supports MS-DOS 6.x.


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 33 of 199, by clueless1

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
James-F wrote:
PhilsComputerLab wrote:
EDIT: OPL3SAX.zip from James have odd settings in the INI file. […]
Show full quote

EDIT: OPL3SAX.zip from James have odd settings in the INI file.

Preset=0
Ymersion=7
Bass=7
Treble=7
YMode=0

It was a fresh install so everything is at default.
Yet it doesn't matter, all can be changed from inside setupsa.exe.

How do you change Bass, Treble, Ymersion and YMode from inside setupsa.exe?
I'm guessing those don't work in DOS anyway?

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 34 of 199, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

At the bottom you have a 3D tab, there you have 3D and Bass & Treble settings.
They do work in dos and are completely undesirable when it comes to pure sound.


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 35 of 199, by clueless1

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I can't see a 3D tab at the bottom in SETUPSA. There are a couple of screenshots I posted of my SETUPSA, can you point it out to me? Or post your own?

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 36 of 199, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Maybe only the 719 supports 3D under DOS?

Main.jpg
Filename
Main.jpg
File size
256.14 KiB
Views
1559 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception
3d.jpg
Filename
3d.jpg
File size
225.91 KiB
Views
1559 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

EDIT;
The 718 don't have a 3D config in setupsa, but it may have a 3D jumper on board to enable it.
The Yamaha OPL YMF718-S chipset.

Last edited by James-F on 2016-09-19, 11:32. Edited 1 time in total.


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 38 of 199, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

The Config under Windows 9x is also slightly different, mainly with the 3D and EQ, like in DOS.
I don't think it is a reason to buy another YMF71x card just for this, the 718 perfectly fine.

Does changing the treble and bass in the opl3sa.ini file in DOS with the 718 actually change the tonality in games?
Can anyone confirm?

719E-S.png
Filename
719E-S.png
File size
13.98 KiB
Views
1532 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 39 of 199, by clueless1

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
James-F wrote:

Does changing the treble and bass in the opl3sa.ini file in DOS with the 718 actually change the tonality in games?
Can anyone confirm?

I'm pretty sure it does not. I remember trying awhile back and not noticing a difference. But I'm not 100% certain, maybe my ear didn't pick it up.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks