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CT2740 IDE Socket

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First post, by Gahhhrrrlic

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Bit of preamble: I am trying to rebuild/upgrade my 386. Got my CPU/FPU upgrades and since my ide controller kinda burnt out I got myself a brand new SCSI controller and Quantum HDD to go with it. Unfortunately this had a downside that I did not anticipate.

While the Adaptec card easily accommodates the hard drive and both my floppy devices, I forgot about my CD drive, which is IDE. I have no free 16 bit ISA slots left in my computer for another controller so I thought I was screwed but then I noticed there's a built-in IDE socket on my sound card. I don't really understand why it's there but I assume it has something to do with playing CD music directly off the card.

Anyway the purpose of this thread is to figure out how to use it. I tried the usual boot disks that contain generic CD drivers... which usually work but in this case they fail to detect the CD drive. The next thing that occurred to me is, maybe I need to install the sound card drivers before the IDE device can be detected. However I do not know of the sound drivers activate the IDE or whether I need additional drivers specific to that function, to enable it. Even if I do install the drivers, not sure how to detect the drive. Is it done the same way by just loading a generic cdrom driver in the autoexec and it will find it through the sound card or do I need some special addressing command to find it there?

At the end of the day I just want to know if anyone has run a plain old cd drive off their sound card before and how they set it up. Thanks.

Side question: Does running off the sound card reduce cpu overhead ?

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Reply 1 of 25, by Cyrix200+

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This interface probably only works with certain (Panasonic) cdrom drives. There is some more information here: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?228 … dBlaster-boards.

A SCSI CDROM drive is another solution, but those aren't very easy to find and might be expensive.

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Reply 2 of 25, by oerk

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Cyrix200+ wrote:

This interface probably only works with certain (Panasonic) cdrom drives.

No, why?

If it is clearly labeled as an IDE port, it should work with any ATAPI drive. These were included on sound cards before secondary IDE controllers were common (the proprietary Panasonic/Mitsumi/Sony interfaces predate these). It was common to run a CD drive off the sound card.

You have to load the sound card drivers before the CD-ROM drivers. I don't remember how the SB16 drivers work exactly, but they should have an option to enable the IDE port. Also, there may be a jumper on the sound card to enable the IDE port.

Also, it's not just for CD playback - that's what the audio in on the card is for!

Reply 3 of 25, by Gahhhrrrlic

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My CD-ROM drive identifies as Matsushita (which I've come to understand = Panasonic) so it may work, if only I knew how to test the theory. After installing the base drivers, nothing remarkable happened that would expose that socket to the rest of the system... just a couple of lines added to the autoexec and config files that appear to set up the mixer. I've been unable to locate any technical specs or manuals for the CT2740 to get more details on the specs of the card either.

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Reply 4 of 25, by Gahhhrrrlic

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oerk wrote:
Cyrix200+ wrote:

This interface probably only works with certain (Panasonic) cdrom drives.

they should have an option to enable the IDE port. Also, there may be a jumper on the sound card to enable the IDE port.

I didn't see any physical jumpers but I am hopeful the software enables it. Do you know which application I need to run? Is there something akin to a bios utility for the card that might enable it?

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Reply 5 of 25, by Gahhhrrrlic

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I just found this:

http://pbclub.pwcsite.com/PBInfo/Jumpers/Soun … R-16-CT274.html

It shows there are jumpers but none of them are related to the cd-rom. It also mentions that the cd-rom interface is for Panasonic devices. I think the Matsushita should work because it's the same OEM. Now I just need to figure out how to enable it.

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Reply 6 of 25, by konc

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I can't speak of that specific card, the general idea though goes like this:
-Some (older) sound cards only support one or more proprietary early CDROM interfaces. In this case no regular IDE device will work. For example you don't just need a cdrom branded Panasonic, you need a cdrom which uses the Panasonic proprietary interface (=not IDE/Atapi) connected there.
-Many (if not most) have a proper IDE connector. If the connector is clearly marked as "IDE" then a generic CDROM will work.
In the latter case you need to load in your config.sys a .sys driver that comes with your soundcard drivers, not your cdrom. Then use mscdex in autoexec.bat as usual. Every time I've used such a connector the exact config.sys command was mentioned in the documentation .txt files. Some cards even ask you during installation if you want them to add that line in config.sys for you.

Reply 7 of 25, by Gahhhrrrlic

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So what you're saying is that even though my cd-rom is panasonic manufactured, it won't work because it needs to be sort of a "sound card cd-rom" to work?

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Reply 8 of 25, by konc

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Gahhhrrrlic wrote:

So what you're saying is that even though my cd-rom is panasonic manufactured, it won't work because it needs to be sort of a "sound card cd-rom" to work?

Sort of, because I don't really know what the connector on your soundcard is and there's no such thing as a "sound card cdrom". Maybe it's not clear yet, early cdroms weren't IDE/Atapi, they used proprietary interfaces. You'd buy a cdrom and get an additional ISA card with it to connect it, it wouldn't work on the motherboard's IDE connector for example. Then soundcards provided such connectors, then soundcards also added an IDE connector.
So yeah, if your soundcard only supports Panasonic's proprietary interface, you need a cdrom using this interface. Not an IDE Panasonic cdrom. Which is rare, old, expensive and definitely not worth it of course. Again, IF this is the case you're dealing with, I'm just telling the story here.

Reply 9 of 25, by Gahhhrrrlic

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I see. Well in the past this cd drive was running off a regular 16 bit ide controller (which kinda burnt out) so now I just have the scsi, which works wonderfully for the hard drive and floppies but... now I'm stuck with only 1 8bit slot left and I'm pretty sure the cd-rom uses the generic ide interface. I looked at what it would cost to buy a ct2290, which apparently has ide support but it's insanely priced. A scsi cd rom may actually be cheaper 🤣.

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Reply 10 of 25, by oerk

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Look, the connector on your sound card clearly has to be marked as something. Either IDE, Panasonic, Sony, or Mitsumi. Or not, it's Creative, after all.

However, being that the CT2740 seems to be a later card, I strongly suspect it's an IDE port.

Reply 11 of 25, by Cyrix200+

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Okay, this is my best attempt at finding out what port it is. I Googled for pictures of the card, there seems to be no marking near the CDROM connection that gives us any clues.

This auction: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Creative-Labs-Sound- … utorefresh=true on eBay however, had a lot of high quality pictures of a CT2750 with original box. On one of the box pictures (the blue side view), it says "Supports optional high performace internal or external CD-ROM drives from Creative Labs".

Assuming that all CT2740's are equal (this is a bit of a guess with Creative as oerk also mentioned), my conclusion would be that you need a Creative branded, special 'sound card CD-ROM'. This might be a special Panasonic one, or something else.

EDIT:

Look at this old auction https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Creative-Labs-Soun … e-/253353772731, it has pictures of the CT2740 with a Creative CDROM drive 'CD620-E' 'Hex Speed'. When I Google CD620-E, I can get this Creative webpage form the Google Cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search? … l&ct=clnk&gl=nl

Last edited by Cyrix200+ on 2018-01-25, 12:05. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 12 of 25, by Jo22

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These days it is hard to say whether or not a specific drive made by Sony, Mitsumi or Panasonic is using a proprietary interface.
In the beginning, these companies all used their own special interfaces, but later on, they moved on to IDE/ATAPI..
According to that documentation, however, SISIDE is an IDE driver and supports both CD420E and CD620E.

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Reply 13 of 25, by CkRtech

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It is Panasonic interface according to: http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/sound-cards-multi … R-16-CT274.html

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Reply 14 of 25, by Cyrix200+

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After looking up some more pictures of that CD620-E, that drive does seem to say 'IDE' above the connector. You should try the driver from the Creative site I linked to.

SBIDE.SYS v2.0. Latest CD-ROM DOS Driver for Creative IDE CD-ROM Drives. Filesize : 36.38 KB Download […]
Show full quote

SBIDE.SYS v2.0. Latest CD-ROM DOS Driver for Creative IDE CD-ROM Drives.
Filesize : 36.38 KB Download

Release date : 19 Mar 98
File Name : sbide20.exe
Now supports DMA mode in addition to Programmed IO.
Command line syntax has changed. See the README.TXT for more information.

NOTE: This driver may not work correctly with Panasonic (MKE) 574 and 581J drives. Use SBIDE.SYS v1.21 for them.

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Reply 15 of 25, by Gahhhrrrlic

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This tends to be my philosophy with most things: If there's any doubt, try it. Thank you all for the research. The page I was able to find with the technical data led me to believe I needed a Panasonic proprietary drive but who knows. Maybe the chips inside my drive (Panasonic stuff is all made by Matsushita) will talk to the driver after all. It's worth a shot. It it does work, it'll be worth it to report back my findings so that others can use this as well. I'm sure it's not the first time somebody has wanted an extra IDE socket.

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Reply 16 of 25, by Jo22

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Does anybody have information about the old Pansonic interface ? 😕

Perhaps we are getting it wrong, and that interface is physically non-IDE,
but IDE/ATAPI compatible on the software side (pure guessing) ?

Edit: Sorry Gahhhrrrlic, missed you last post above. 😅

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Reply 17 of 25, by firage

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It's not labeled on the PCB, but it does appear to be the proprietary Panasonic interface that you also got with Sound Blaster Pro and most other Creative cards before IDE. Unfortunately, the compatible CD-ROM drives make a very short list, mostly double speed.

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Reply 18 of 25, by CkRtech

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firage wrote:

It's not labeled on the PCB, but it does appear to be the proprietary Panasonic interface that you also got with Sound Blaster Pro and most other Creative cards before IDE. Unfortunately, the compatible CD-ROM drives make a very short list, mostly double speed.

Yeah. I don't think it lasted long. The very first CD-ROM drive I got was a single speed, caddy-based drive that came in a Creative Labs Edutainment package at the time the SB16 was released. The included SB16 was designed to provide the drive interface - the Panasonic interface. By the time I upgraded to a faster drive (4X), which was also Creative Labs "branded," it was IDE time.

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Reply 19 of 25, by fitzpatr

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Ok.

Let's hold on a minute here.

1. The CT2740 in your possession will not work with an IDE CD-ROM drive. Even attempting it can damage something because the pinouts do not match. Same cable, different interface.

2. You have a few options, most of which have been mentioned above.
A. Use a newer Sound Card that explicitly provides an IDE interface. Some AWE32s, and several newer SB16s provide this, as well as many other cards.
B. Find an old, compatible drive for your current Sound Card.
C. Find a SCSI CD-ROM drive.

Note that in addition to the data cable, an audio cable from the CD-ROM drive to the Sound Card will be required.

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