Yes, you made your question clear enough.

But there are a hundreds of pages dedicated to this question (FULL INTENDED!!!). And it is impossible to give the answer in one paragraph as you wish 😀

Simplest decision is to buy ESS1688 (excellent SBPro compatibility, good ESFM quality) with real MPU-401 UART and WT-header, use SCB-55/DB50XG or any external General MIDI device. If you want to get Roland LA buy any MT-32/CM-32L/CM-500 and use SoftMPU. That's all.

It's minimum. About maximum we can talk all around the day.

For Monkey Island 2, I guess:

- SoundBlaster Pro 2;
- MPU controller card (like this one);
- Roland MT-32.

I think it should be optimal for most adventure games released before 1993. After that you need a MIDI device.

Shit, that reminds me — gotta finish my 386 build already.

jheronimus, do you want make him a headache quest? How much the time does he need to find a real Creative Sound Blaster Pro/2, Roland/clone MPU-401 controller? And how much do they cost? And why exactly Monkey Island? Aren't other games?

I agree with PARUS,

For simple and easy, just go with an ess 1868 or 1869 ISA based sound card. Set the onboard jumpers to disable the onboard amplifier and you will get pretty decent output. This will cover in a "good enough" manner, 99% of DOS based games.

Either get an MT32 and plug it into the ess card or plug in something like a deamblaster S2 in through the internal wavetable header if you want better MIDI playback. (MT-32 is great, but so horribly expensive).

bytestorm, take any good SBPro clone (like ESS), MT-32 and use free SoftMPU. In future if you wish you'll get other "authentic" variants.
I said "simplest". But simplest does not mean defective!

bytestorm wrote:

Hello all!
Just realized that I need a 486/P1 to get back into DOS gaming again, and the occasional win95/98 game.

Not really, you don't. Read this:
http://stuffjasondoes.com/2018/09/13/virtuali … gaming-in-2018/

bytestorm wrote:

I want to be able to play all the old point n click adventure games with full music and all sound effects and such.
I would also be able to take the MIDI out to route it to a MT-32 emulator if the game supports MT-32.

Again, DOSBOX would make it much easier for you than tinkering with real hardware.

bytestorm wrote:

What hardware does a sound card need to give me the full intended experience of say, monkey island 2 for example?
FM, midi, found effects? Man I am lost in this jungle

However, if you want to go the real-hardware way, then PARUS's simple decision is probably your best bet.

PARUS wrote:

How much the time does he need to find a real Creative Sound Blaster Pro/2, Roland/clone MPU-401 controller?

Both SB Pro 2 and Roland MT-32 are available on eBay right now and I've pointed to the exact post about MPU clones. They are expensive, sure, but not particularly hard to find either. However, it definitely would take a lot of time to find them cheaper. But would you argue that this setup gives you the full intended experience? That was the original question, after all.

Sure, SoftMPU works, but in my experience it does have compatibility issues with several adventure games. I had problems with some Legend Entertainment titles, for example — I'm sure there are other tricky cases. BTW, same goes for "using an MT-32 emulator" — which is a fairly tricky setup that requires both SoftMPU, a fairly expensive USB2MIDI interface and connecting to a modern PC.

Honestly, the MPU card is a lot more straightforward.

PARUS wrote:

And why exactly Monkey Island? Aren't other games?

He asked about Monkey Island 2 specifically. And it is a good example — it's a game that uses MT-32 via intelligent MPU mode (as opposed to the original Monkey Island, for instance).

Sound Blaster Pro gives nothing compared to a lot of clones. In a lot of games.
And SoftMPU issues with "several games" is not a problem for begin. I'm 99% sure that with SoftMPU he'll forget about real controller and these several intelligent mode games.

Remember too about full cost for an ESS card + SoftMPU and a real SB Pro + HardMPU.

Wow! Thanks all for the inputs!! 😁
Just curious why Adlib cards are so expensive but no one recomends them for gaming? Are they missing something? Only music and no sound effects or other way around?

I will look into the ESS1688 asap 😀. And I also actually quite like the idea with:
- SoundBlaster Pro 2;
- MPU controller card;
- Roland MT-32.

I know that simple solutions such as dosbox and other emulations exist, but at the same time I really like tinkering with old hw so I´ll stick to the HW setup (except for MT-32 if I cant find it) Hope i can find a reasonally priced MT-32, but if not I will try the roland usb2midi route. (UM-ONE mk2?)

But I read somewhere that if using the MPU controller card for midi to MT-32, then you could use even a sound blaster card with hanging note bug, because the midi section will not be used on the SB card or what?
Would that also mean that I wont experience the single dma "click" bug in Day of the Tentacle for example?

The thing I dont understand is what divides the soundcards..
I mean I thought all "sound cards" cards could play all there was to play in a game.. FM music, Sound effects, MIDI, Music, Wavetable(?)?
(thats why i asked about the adlib)

And about the game MI2, I just took what was on the top of my mind 😀. I want to play as many games as I can, but focus is on adventuregames such as Monkey Island, Simon the Sorcerer, DoTT, Sam n Max

bytestorm wrote:

Wow! Thanks all for the inputs!! 😁
Just curious why Adlib cards are so expensive but no one recomends them for gaming? Are they missing something? Only music and no sound effects or other way around?

Well, the original AdLib is more than 30 years old, and if I'm more mistaken, it was more widespread in North America. In the last three years only once have I seen one for sale in Russia, for instance.

Also, AdLib cards (and the eponymous sound standard that you can choose in games' setup programs) are more about music. They can do some sound effects, but not too well. SoundBlaster cards (and the standard) combine AdLib compatibility with superior digital sound effects.

bytestorm wrote:

But I read somewhere that if using the MPU controller card for midi to MT-32, then you could use even a sound blaster card with hanging note bug, because the midi section will not be used on the SB card or what?

Usually the hanging note bug refers to MIDI stuff, not MT-32. I'm not sure it happens with SoftMPU, but I might be mistaken. However, you are right — a hardware MPU card will solve any hanging note bugs that might happen with MT-32 or an external midi device such as Roland SC-55.

The thing I dont understand is what divides the soundcards..
I mean I thought all "sound cards" cards could play all there was to play in a game.. FM music, Sound effects, MIDI, Music, Wavetable(?)?
(thats why i asked about the adlib)

Well it boils down to the fact that most sound standards in DOS games are not standards. They are just sound modes that were used by the most popular manufacturers that other companies tried to clone with varying success. This is why AdLib is both an actual card and a term that game developers use to refer to FM/OPL3 music. Same goes for SoundBlaster Pro/SoundBlaster 16.

Here is a good overview of main sound standards — complete with music samples. It doesn't touch the subject of clones, though.

I want to play as many games as I can, but focus is on adventuregames such as Monkey Island, Simon the Sorcerer, DoTT, Sam n Max

All these games use MT-32 (only Sam & Max also has an option for MIDI), but you're getting dangerously close to the transition era 😀

jheronimus wrote:

Well, the original AdLib is more than 30 years old, and if I'm more mistaken, it was more widespread in North America. In the last three years only once have I seen one for sale in Russia, for instance.

Yeah but I was thinking of the new Radlib 1:1 clone 😀

jheronimus wrote:

Also, AdLib cards (and the eponymous sound standard that you can choose in games' setup programs) are more about music. They can do some sound effects, but not too well. SoundBlaster cards (and the standard) combine AdLib compatibility with superior digital sound effects.

Ah, that makes sense.. didnt know.

jheronimus wrote:

Usually the hanging note bug refers to MIDI stuff, not MT-32. I'm not sure it happens with SoftMPU, but I might be mistaken. However, you are right — a hardware MPU card will solve any hanging note bugs that might happen with MT-32 or an external midi device such as Roland SC-55.

Do you know if this solution also frees me fron DMA clicks? 😀

jheronimus wrote:

Well it boils down to the fact that most sound standards in DOS games are not standards. They are just sound modes that were used by the most popular manufacturers that other companies tried to clone with varying success. This is why AdLib is both an actual card and a term that game developers use to refer to FM/OPL3 music. Same goes for SoundBlaster Pro/SoundBlaster 16.
Here is a good overview of main sound standards — complete with music samples. It doesn't touch the subject of clones, though.

Cool, will check it out tonight!

jheronimus wrote:

All these games use MT-32 (only Sam & Max also has an option for MIDI), but you're getting dangerously close to the transition era 😀

Transition era into another type of cards? Standards? There are some win95/98 games also on my list, but for them I think my regular P4 will be ok..

PARUS wrote:

Sound Blaster Pro gives nothing compared to a lot of clones. In a lot of games.
And SoftMPU issues with "several games" is not a problem for begin. I'm 99% sure that with SoftMPU he'll forget about real controller and these several intelligent mode games.

Remember too about full cost for an ESS card + SoftMPU and a real SB Pro + HardMPU.

This solution would indeed be VERY cheap compared to the other.. havent read about it before so ill check it out later after work!! Thanks 😁

bytestorm wrote:

Yeah but I was thinking of the new Radlib 1:1 clone 😀

Oops, overlooked that. Never heard about that particular clone.

bytestorm wrote:

Do you know if this solution also frees me fron DMA clicks? 😀

No, I never bothered with that issue.

bytestorm wrote:

Transition era into another type of cards? Standards? There are some win95/98 games also on my list, but for them I think my regular P4 will be ok..

For DOS there are two "high-end" music options. MT-32 and MIDI. 1993 is roughly the year when developers started switching to MIDI. Hence, Sam & Max (1993) has options for both sound standards.

With native Windows games you don't need to bother with compatibility all that much.

jheronimus wrote:

Oops, overlooked that. Never heard about that particular clone.

Seems really nice, and good price also compared..

jheronimus wrote:

For DOS there are two "high-end" music options. MT-32 and MIDI. 1993 is roughly the year when developers started switching to MIDI. Hence, Sam & Max (1993) has options for both sound standards.

With native Windows games you don't need to bother with compatibility all that much.

Ah good... I have a Aopen AW744L II - Yamaha XG PCI card on the way home for my dedicated win98 pc, so hopefully that´ll be enough for games like curse of the monkey island, broken sword, full throttle and such 😁

bytestorm wrote:

Do you know if this solution also frees me fron DMA clicks? 😀

No, it doesn't. The DMA click is a bug/design flaw in the SB 1.x DSP when playing wave files. To avoid this, get a Creative card with 2.x DSP or higher (or just about any clone, as they don't click).

jheronimus wrote:

For DOS there are two "high-end" music options. MT-32 and MIDI. 1993 is roughly the year when developers started switching to MIDI. Hence, Sam & Max (1993) has options for both sound standards.

MT-32 is MIDI too. You're referring to General MIDI. General MIDI (frequently abbreviated to "GM") standardised instrument mapping, so that any GM-compliant MIDI device will play the same instrument with the same instruction. Prior to GM, a MIDI instruction would play something with correct timing and pitch, but to get the correct instrument you needed to run the exact device that a music piece was written for. The MT-32 is older than GM and quite a bit of its instrument mapping is different, so the wrong sound will play if you try to play GM music on an MT-32 or MT-32 music on GM. Additionally, the MT-32 has the option to upload samples, whereas GM does not. If an application takes advantage of this feature, it will definitely sound wrong on GM.

TLDR: MT-32 and GM are similar but different, and as jheronimus correctly states, which you want depends on which date your games come from. Some GM devices (specifically the Roland SC-55 rev 2) offer a form of MT-32 emulation, which is not perfect (still no possibility to upload samples, even if instruments are similar, they are not identical) but better than nothing. So if you want MT-32 *AND* GM and can't afford both simultaneously, an SC-55 rev 2 is probably the best compromise. It's also generally cheaper and easier to find than an MT-32, and is still useful for GM/GS ("GS" is a Roland-proprietary superset of GM with quite a bit of support) even if you later do get an MT-32.

With native Windows games you don't need to bother with compatibility all that much.

Nope. That's why the interesting soundcard market pretty much disappeared after Win9x became standard.

bytestorm wrote:

Ah good... I have a Aopen AW744L II - Yamaha XG PCI card on the way home for my dedicated win98 pc, so hopefully that´ll be enough for games like curse of the monkey island, broken sword, full throttle and such 😁

Yamaha XG offers excellent GM ("XG" is another proprietary superset like Roland's GS, and is also well-supported), but not MT-32 emulation.

Monkey Island was written for MT-32 and sounds far better with that than with anything else. Later, a GM patch was relased, so at least you get the right instruments, but it doesn't sound as great:
https://youtu.be/a324ykKV-7Y

That said, your XG card is free, an MT-32 would surely not be, so it's a very decent start.

Broken Sword is Windows, so works fine in any event, and Full Throttle is GM anyway. You're good to go 😉

To give you an idea of what the

dionb wrote:

MT-32 is MIDI too. You're referring to General MIDI. General MIDI (frequently abbreviated to "GM") standardised instrument mapping, so that any GM-compliant MIDI device will play the same instrument with the same instruction.

Yes, you are correct.

dionb wrote:

Yamaha XG offers excellent GM ("XG" is another proprietary superset like Roland's GS, and is also well-supported), but not MT-32 […]
Show full quote

bytestorm wrote:

Ah good... I have a Aopen AW744L II - Yamaha XG PCI card on the way home for my dedicated win98 pc, so hopefully that´ll be enough for games like curse of the monkey island, broken sword, full throttle and such 😁

Yamaha XG offers excellent GM ("XG" is another proprietary superset like Roland's GS, and is also well-supported), but not MT-32 emulation.

Monkey Island was written for MT-32 and sounds far better with that than with anything else. Later, a GM patch was relased, so at least you get the right instruments, but it doesn't sound as great:
https://youtu.be/a324ykKV-7Y

That said, your XG card is free, an MT-32 would surely not be, so it's a very decent start.

Broken Sword is Windows, so works fine in any event, and Full Throttle is GM anyway. You're good to go 😉

Curse of Monkey Island is the third game in the series, so it's a Windows game, too. Only the first two MI games used MT-32. I believe bytestorm meant that his Pentium 4 with the Aopen sound card will be used for Windows games, not DOS stuff.

This confuses a lot of people (myself included) when first starting out, It's also the most fun part for dos era.
I found it most simple to break it down to a game configuration options, the 3 main ones are

1) Adlib
Adlib is done by the Yamaha OPL chip on soundcards, later on companies started cloning the chip with various levels of accuracy.

2) Sound Blaster
Mostly responsible just for sound fx in games or later games with all digital audio (Games that don't allow you to select separate music device)
Sound Blaster has a few standards, SB Pro and SB16 being the big ones, catch is SB16 isn't fully compatible with SB Pro (loose stereo in some games)

3) Midi
Superior Music in games that support it, MT32 and General Midi are the "standards"

Other options are more specialised
GUS was somewhat well supported for a while (think Epic Games) but only really any use for games that natively support it.
AWE is Creatives alternate to Midi
Any other settings like PAS, SoundScape, etc is just a different way to achieve Sound Blaster type compatibility.