VOGONS


First post, by DaCiRO

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I am in need of some advice and guidance before I make a wrong blind purchase
I recently acquired a PLG150-DR (drums) board, it is in my Yamaha MU2000(EX) unit and I am really , and I mean REALLY, happy with the drum sounds and options in PC midi games. Descent, Doom, Warcraft1 and 2, they just sound great.
Now I am wondering what other PLG150 boards are the best options specifically for PC midi games. I remark 'specifically for PC midi games' because I am not a musician or a composer, neither I am in any professional music filed or trade, I know that the PLG boards were made for professional use but I am not seeking professional synth musician level advice. I just love old DOS and Windows 98 classic game's opl2, opl3, midi music and that is my only focal interest in reaching out.

If I were to add 1 or 2 more PLG150 boards to the Yamaha MU2000(EX) for PC gaming. What would be the advice?
Also, Can the Yamaha MU2000(EX) to use/play more than one PLG150 board in games at the same time (i.e.: 3 boards playing simultaneously),...or it can only one board be selected and played at a time?

Reply 1 of 13, by derSammler

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I don't think there's a "best option", as anyone will tell you different anyway. Most just say you should use a Roland SC-55 for games using GM. I played Descent last time using an Edirol SD-20 from 2004 and was so blown away by the music that I would never again play it with an SC-55.

Can't really help you with the PLG150 boards, though, as I don't know which ones were released and how they sound. Best is to try them and just use what sounds best to you.

Reply 2 of 13, by DaCiRO

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Thanks, I have few modules already (list below) and I am quite familiar with the quality of each one in different games. I am on my race to increase the collection towards a Roland 8850 and reach my goal of getting a Roland Integra-7, but the for next 1~2 years I will still be sticking to the vintage desktop module units.
I was never a strong believer of the board expansion business, yet I recently decided to give a try to the Yamaha PLG cards and I was impressed drum quality of the PLG150-DR in the MU2000, this was a different drum set sound than I was used to using the other modules and I have some of them connected simultaneously (pic below) to compare them side by side and switch between them on the fly, so I got my ear fine tune to each one by now. My interest now is to fully load the MU2000 with the best PLG cards for PC games hence hoping that anyone can guide me on the next PLG150- purchase.

Korg NS5R (x3)
Korg AG-10
Korg 05R/W
Yamaha MU 10, 50, 80, and 100
Yamaha TG100, and TG300
Yamaha MU2000 (EX)
Roland SD-35 (x2)
Roland SB-55 (x2)
Roland SC55-MkII
Roland MT32 Old (x2) New (1)
Roland CM32L, CM-500, and CM 300
Roland SC-7 (x2)
Kawai G-Mega
Daughter Boards: dreamblaster S1, X2 and DB50XG

Some of them - Current permanent line up

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Last edited by DaCiRO on 2019-11-11, 11:46. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 3 of 13, by yawetaG

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Well, in that case it's easier to tell you which ones you probably can't use:

- PLG-100SG, because it's a formant singing synthesizer board that is mostly meant to be used together with a PC-based editor. It does have some normal patches, but those are mostly sound effects not located at the right memory positions.
- PLG-100VL/PLG-150VL, wind synthesizer. This one might actually work, but the MIDI data in games is not optimized for controlling wind instrument patches, so stuff could sound strange. However, it is not polyphonic and only provides a single voice (instead of the minimum 16 required for GM) and so can only be used for a single part.
- PLG-150AN, analog modelling synthesizer. This only provides a polyphony of 5, so again not GM compatible. Also, the patches' memory positions don't match up with GM.
- PLG-100DX/PLG-150DX, 6 operator FM synthesizer (DX7 on a board). This expects compatible MIDI data (not GM AFAIK), and also apparently has a horrible way of loading patches (you need to use the PC editor).

The PLG-150AP and PLG-150PF do provide normal XG patches that don't have the control issues of the aforementioned boards, but are entirely dedicated to high-quality piano and other key instrument patches.

The PLG-100VH (effect board) probably can be used if you can set your MU2000 to use whatever effect you want instead of the ones specified in the MIDI files.

The PLG-150PC is basically the same as the PLG-150DR, except with Latin-oriented drums, so it will work.

So will the PLG-100XG/PLG-150XG, but those may duplicate quite a few MU2000 patches, because they were meant to add a GM-compatible sound generator to Yamaha non-GM synths.

derSammler wrote:

Can't really help you with the PLG150 boards, though, as I don't know which ones were released and how they sound. Best is to try them and just use what sounds best to you.

At usually 200+ USD a piece 😵 I can understand Daciro does not want to try that... 🤣

I mean, when I finally got my MU128 and added up the prices I paid for the MU128 (+ PLG-100VL), PLG-100SG, and PLG-100VH I came to approximately 500 bucks and wondered whether it would not have been better to just get a EX-5R (VL, AN, AWM + advanced effect synthesizer in one box) for 800 bucks instead...

Reply 4 of 13, by SuperDeadite

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For normal PC games, DR is really the only option.
Now if you branch out to other systems, things get more interesting. I love using my AN with my MSX, but it requires some custom hardware.

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 5 of 13, by DaCiRO

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SuperDeadite wrote:

For normal PC games, DR is really the only option.
Now if you branch out to other systems, things get more interesting. I love using my AN with my MSX, but it requires some custom hardware.

This is great info, Thank you. How much do you think the AP and PF boards would actually be used in games?

Reply 6 of 13, by DaCiRO

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SuperDeadite wrote:

For normal PC games, DR is really the only option.
Now if you branch out to other systems, things get more interesting. I love using my AN with my MSX, but it requires some custom hardware.

Are you able to use all 3 boards simultaneously?
Is it possible to map both the -DR board and -PC board to channel 10 and have them both simultaneously elected and played?....or I can only map and select one board at a time?

Reply 7 of 13, by SuperDeadite

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3 boards can be used at once. You can even have 2 of the same board installed, example 2 ANs to have 2 parts. However each board is set to a seperate part. If DR is set to part 10, PC must be set to a different part.

Here's the AN in action with my MSX. Can't really do this on a PC unless you edit the MIDI files directly.
https://youtu.be/UcqYe48eqj8
https://youtu.be/9RJl9aebBM4

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 8 of 13, by yawetaG

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DaCiRO wrote:
SuperDeadite wrote:

For normal PC games, DR is really the only option.
Now if you branch out to other systems, things get more interesting. I love using my AN with my MSX, but it requires some custom hardware.

This is great info, Thank you. How much do you think the AP and PF boards would actually be used in games?

That probably depends on the sound track - the patches would replace any instruments using program change 1-8 (or so the manuals seem to indicate). Some Japanese games have great orchestral pieces where they'd help - although you might then notice the difference in quality between the expansion board piano parts and the regular instruments.

SuperDeadite wrote:

3 boards can be used at once. You can even have 2 of the same board installed, example 2 ANs to have 2 parts. However each board is set to a seperate part. If DR is set to part 10, PC must be set to a different part.

It's probably possible to use both boards on channel 10 by using both MIDI INs at once and setting MIDI IN A to control one PLG board and MIDI IN B the other, both on channel 10.

Reply 9 of 13, by j^aws

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IIRC, these early sample-based PLG boards ended up with their ROMsets in later Motif synthesisers like the Motif ES and XS? I have a few of these PLG cards, but never used them for games. I should test out my pair of Motif ES and XS racks someday and compare them.

Reply 10 of 13, by SuperDeadite

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yawetaG wrote:
That probably depends on the sound track - the patches would replace any instruments using program change 1-8 (or so the manuals […]
Show full quote
DaCiRO wrote:
SuperDeadite wrote:

For normal PC games, DR is really the only option.
Now if you branch out to other systems, things get more interesting. I love using my AN with my MSX, but it requires some custom hardware.

This is great info, Thank you. How much do you think the AP and PF boards would actually be used in games?

That probably depends on the sound track - the patches would replace any instruments using program change 1-8 (or so the manuals seem to indicate). Some Japanese games have great orchestral pieces where they'd help - although you might then notice the difference in quality between the expansion board piano parts and the regular instruments.

SuperDeadite wrote:

3 boards can be used at once. You can even have 2 of the same board installed, example 2 ANs to have 2 parts. However each board is set to a seperate part. If DR is set to part 10, PC must be set to a different part.

It's probably possible to use both boards on channel 10 by using both MIDI INs at once and setting MIDI IN A to control one PLG board and MIDI IN B the other, both on channel 10.

Thats not how it works. MIDI IN A is wired to channels 1-16. B is channels 17-32. Serial or USB is required to use all 64.

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 11 of 13, by yawetaG

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SuperDeadite wrote:
yawetaG wrote:
That probably depends on the sound track - the patches would replace any instruments using program change 1-8 (or so the manuals […]
Show full quote
DaCiRO wrote:

This is great info, Thank you. How much do you think the AP and PF boards would actually be used in games?

That probably depends on the sound track - the patches would replace any instruments using program change 1-8 (or so the manuals seem to indicate). Some Japanese games have great orchestral pieces where they'd help - although you might then notice the difference in quality between the expansion board piano parts and the regular instruments.

SuperDeadite wrote:

3 boards can be used at once. You can even have 2 of the same board installed, example 2 ANs to have 2 parts. However each board is set to a seperate part. If DR is set to part 10, PC must be set to a different part.

It's probably possible to use both boards on channel 10 by using both MIDI INs at once and setting MIDI IN A to control one PLG board and MIDI IN B the other, both on channel 10.

Thats not how it works. MIDI IN A is wired to channels 1-16. B is channels 17-32. Serial or USB is required to use all 64.

You can do it with a MIDI utility box. If you use a MIDI thru box or patchbay, you can split a single MIDI OUT into two MIDI OUTS, each carrying exactly the same signals on the same channels. Then you can play two synths in unison. And yes, I've tried that, and yes it works. It's a comnon way of fattening up the sound by using multiple synths at once. On the MU's it might require setting the module to "double module mode" or whatever it gets called by Yamaha.

BTW, the channel numbers you mention are only set up like that internally in the module. A single MIDI connection always has 16 channels numbered 1-16. That USB or serial MIDI and certain modules tend to number these 1-16, 17-32, 33-48, 49-64, etc. is merely for the convenience of not saying ouput A (1-16), output B (1-16), output C (1-16), output D (1-16), etc.

However, now that I think about it, the real limitation is that the PLG boards can only be used via the MIDI IN A port, so in a certain sense you're right.

Reply 12 of 13, by SuperDeadite

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A patch bay is seperate hardware though. Not really what the OP is asking about. I have a UM-550 myself and love it. I really like sending the drums to the DR and sending the rest to something crazier like my SG0-1k.

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 13 of 13, by DaCiRO

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yawetaG wrote:
DaCiRO wrote:
SuperDeadite wrote:

That probably depends on the sound track - the patches would replace any instruments using program change 1-8 (or so the manuals seem to indicate). Some Japanese games have great orchestral pieces where they'd help - although you might then notice the difference in quality between the expansion board piano parts and the regular instruments.

SuperDeadite wrote:

3 boards can be used at once. You can even have 2 of the same board installed, example 2 ANs to have 2 parts. However each board is set to a seperate part. If DR is set to part 10, PC must be set to a different part.

YawetaG: Piano part I think it is #1, so If I map the -PF card to Part #1, I guess I should be able to hear the card itself, right?
SuperDadtie: So what is the right part to map the Percussion instruments?. I though that it was the same part #10 as Drums.