VOGONS


First post, by Dochartaigh

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Been researching and testing sound on my 'new' Windows 98 system, in both later DOS games, and Windows 98 games (so roughly 1991-2002ish). FYI, I plan on launching all DOS games from inside Windows (except where problematic). I haven't used Windows 98 in about 15 or so years so have some questions about my setup:

Dell Dimension XPS PIII 700mhz Computer and Sound Card Specs

--GeForce 4 ti4600
--256mb RAM
--120gb SSD w/ SATA to IDE adapter
DOS/ISA Sound Card: ESS ES1869F (this is a slightly improved version of the 1868 "with a higher 48 KHz sample rate and 3D ​Spatializer technology")
WINDOWS/PCI Sound Card: Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS (gold edition)
--internal audio cable from CD-ROM goes to Audigy
--A 3.5mm audio/stereo cable goes from the Line-Out of the ESS, to the Line-In of the Audigy; Line-Out of Audigy goes to my speakers

How I have drivers and things setup inside Windows 98 SE

DRIVERS
--ESS ES1869F drivers get installed automatically by Windows 98 SE as "ESS Plug and Play AudioDrive (WDM)" (and even if I manually use the drivers listed on multiple topics on this site they seem to be the same).
--Audigy 2 ZS I used the CD ISO from VogonsDrivers.

ESS I went into device manager and unchecked the "use automatic settings" as I wanted these to never change no matter what. They're:
DMA: 01
DMA: 00
(IRQ) Interrupt: 05
(Address) Input/Output Range: 0220, 0388, 0330

Audigy 2 ZS seems to have less settings (I unchecked "use automatic settings" as well) and those are:
(IRQ) Interrupt: 3
(Address) Input/Output Range: 280 (was 1000 but that seems WAY higher than any audio settings I could choose, so I changed it to 280 which it says it does NOT have a conflict)

MIDI
My buddy told me that to setup Midi to run from the ESS, that I needed to go to Control Panel> Multimedia Properties> MIDI tab > then choose “ESS FM Synthesizer” as the device to output MIDI on
(and in game, mostly for DOS games, I can then choose “General MIDI” for MUSIC in those DOS games, and I choose Port 330)
Fx5tnRb.jpg

Multimedia Properties
Last, and I'll go into weirdness/issues for this below, I can choose either the ESS or the Audigy for the preferred playback device:
HTtVaMq.jpg

How I have Drivers setup for DOS

(for when I reboot into DOS -- i.e. do NOT run a DOS game from inside Win98)

--I have the "ESSCFG" drivers from Phil's computer lab. No problem there - I run the config program in DOS, choose IRQ/DMA/etc and it seems to edit my autoexec (or was it config.sys?) with the correct drivers.
--I can not install the Audigy DOS drivers (problem listed below)


ISSUES

1.)
When I heard the Windows 98 chime on reboot after installing the drivers the audio skips (at 5 secs) every time. When I try an actual program (the Creative sound demo - it's from the pop-up screen you get after you successfully installed the Creative Audigy 2 ZS drivers) - the sound skips in multiple areas during that song. Sound in-game seems ok, but I thought that having two glitches right off the bat didn't bode well...


2.)
I want DOS games (launched from inside Win98) to use the ESS for both Sound FX AND Music, and Windows games to use the Audigy 2 ZS for ALL sound... and it doesn't seem to be able to do that AUTOMATICALLY.

I have the settings in Device Manager for both the ESS and Audigy set with the "use automatic settings" UNCHECKED, so as far as I know these are unchangeable by the system unless I change them. The ESS for example is set to A220 I5 D1, with a secondary A330 used for MIDI (this is also set in the MIDI Tab as pictured in the spoiler above). I have DOS games like Doom 1 and 2 and Duke3d manually setup to use A220 I5 D1 for Sound FX, then for Music they're using 'General MIDI' set to A330. BUT, if I change the below Multimedia Properties>Audio tab> Playback Preferred Device setting to be "Audigy 2 ZS", I'll get Sound FX from the Audigy, and Music from the ESS:

HTtVaMq.jpg

This doesn't make sense to me. The game (multiple games!) are setup to throw its Sound FX to A220 I5 D1. A220 is setup in device manager to be for the ESS and NOT the Audigy....so why would the Audigy be playing any sound at all? (and I found this out by plugging in the wire from the speakers directly into each sound card individually, fyi, just to test what was playing what sounds or music)

Conversely, if I want to play a Windows game on the Audigy (ONLY! as that's how I should be setting up most games, right?), and the Playback Preferred Device is set to the ESS, the game won't make full use of the Audigy (for instance in Warcraft 3 it defaults to 'Miles Emulated 3d' for ESS, instead of the Audigy default which is 'Dolby Surround').


3.)
I can't boot into DOS (i.e. NOT from inside Win98, but boot directly into DOS) and have my ESS/DOS/ISA sound card work because it's routed through the Audigy 2. When I unplug my speakers from the Audigy and plug them into the ESS I get sound. I assume it's because the passthrough only works on the Audigy if it has drivers enabled in DOS? And the ESS currently goes: ESS Out > Audigy In, Audigy Out to speakers; so if there's no drivers telling the Audigy to do passthrough sound, I get no sound.

If the above is the case, I then read I would have to install the http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fi ... OS drivers, which I can't get to work (where in those DOS setting there would be a setting to turn on passthrough I assume). Those DOS drivers are the ones mentioned on many posts here where they took the Audigy 1 DOS drivers then patched them for the Audigy 2 ZS. When I run the installation program (which is a Windows-only program, can't be run from DOS) I get the error:

"SB16 Emulation can only be run on Windows 95 or 98 with VXD Drivers installed. Setup will now exit."

I currently have WDM drivers installed for the Audigy 2 ZS from the ISO everybody recommends (link above). Am I not able to use Audigy Windows drivers (for Windows games) at the same time as Audigy DOS drivers?

OR, and I don't know why I didn't think of this, but should I just reverse the order of the wires so it goes: Audigy Out > ESS In > ESS Out to speakers?

Bonus question 🤣: that error mentions "SB16 Emulation". The ESS is only an 8-bit card, right? I know some DOS games have an option for SoundBlaster 16 - would there be any benefit to try those DOS games in SB16 running through the Audigy, instead of using my normal (8-bit) ESS for DOS? (this is assuming I can even get those Audigy DOS drivers to work, which I currently can't). If there's like a 5% difference forget about it, but I thought I'd ask.

Reply 1 of 32, by Joseph_Joestar

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To use that SB16 Audigy 2 ZS pack, you need to have VxD drivers installed, not WDM drivers which is what the CD installs by default.

Here is the method that I got from browsing various threads on this forum. Note that the Audigy's SB16 legacy device will require A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 and I don't think that can be changed manually. This doesn't affect my setup as I don't use a second sound card under Windows 98, but it could cause conflicts in your case since the ESS currently uses some of those resources.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 2 of 32, by chinny22

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1) Think mine does the same, it'll just be something loading in the background interrupting the playback.

2) So you never get Midi from the Audigy? not even playing a midi file from within Windows?
The Audigy should also have resources assigned to Midi maybe its the same (windows isn't the best at picking up conflicts)
I would expect the same as you. Point a dos game at the ESS resources and that's what gets used no matter what windows has as the preferred device.
I've only get creative cards in similar duel sound card setups so maybe it's something to do with the ESS but doubt it.

3) Yeh just reverse the wires, you don't really want to load the SB16 emulation drivers anyway.

4) I'd say 2%. The card is compatible with a SB Pro, so 8bit. However any games that support ESS Audiodrive will give you 16bit support just like a SB16.
So it's only any 16bit games that don't support ESS Audiodrive will you be missing anything, not that I think you would notice much difference anyway.

The main difference would actually be due to the Audigy having much cleaner sound, but the drivers are such a pain I'd go with the isa card any day of the week

Reply 3 of 32, by foil_fresh

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1) skipping audio on boot - do you have daemon tools mounting anything? is there a usb drive connected? try stopping/disconnecting these.

2)i would test setting the ESS as 240/7/1 (if it's possible) and midi port 360, so that windows handles the Audigy and there's no conflicts.

3) you'll need to intialise the Audigy with the audio mixer config set to have line-in unmuted. You won't necessarily need to assign resources for sound or even have the card "work", we just need the input to mix. The SB Live dos drivers "Livedos" may work without needing to install the windows side of things: https://www.philscomputerlab.com/uploads/3/7/ … 621/livedos.zip - i have not tested this with an audigy but i have read that windows drivers for a Live! card can work on Audigy cards that have similar chips..? i might be tripping but its worth a shot. Emu10k1 on SB Live and Emu10k2 on Audigy... might be close enough to work.

4) if a game doesn't work with sb or sb pro then use the sb16 emulation for compatiblity. sometimes the samples sound worse in 16 bit vs 8 bit but thats just me. keep fiddling and find what you think is best.

Reply 4 of 32, by Dochartaigh

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-01-23, 21:48:

To use that SB16 Audigy 2 ZS pack, you need to have VxD drivers installed, not WDM drivers which is what the CD installs by default.

Thanks. Any detriments to using the VxD drivers vs WDM? VxD works just the same in Windows as the WDM drivers did? (I mainly got the Audigy for Windows so need to make sure it doesn't mess that up). And once you install the DOS drivers the Audigy can then work in both Windows and DOS, correct? (but in 'reboot to DOS' mode you'll have to run the Audigy patch program on every startup I believe they said, right?).

I think I can manually change the settings of the ESS so they don't conflict - I just don't want to loose the ability to use the ESS (both in DOS games played/launched from Windows, and DOS games when I reboot into DOS). And don't want any problems if I also start using the Audigy along with the ESS in DOS (where I guess the Audigy will do SB16 which the ESS can't do).

I really liked your recording of Doom using soundfonts in that link...but I know nearly nothing about them and didn't even know the Audigy 2 ZS could do them (thought those were only for ISA DOS midi cards with addons like the Dreamblaster? but I'm probably totally butchering that explanation).


chinny22 wrote on 2020-01-24, 00:01:

1) Think mine does the same, it'll just be something loading in the background interrupting the playback.

How about the Creative sample though? I can run that after the system has been running for 10 minutes and it'll still do it which has me worried.

chinny22 wrote on 2020-01-24, 00:01:

2) So you never get Midi from the Audigy? not even playing a midi file from within Windows?
The Audigy should also have resources assigned to Midi maybe its the same (windows isn't the best at picking up conflicts)

I believe I can get Midi from the Audigy (I would have to change the Midi device in the Multimedia menu from the ESS to the Audigy then double-check it though). The Audigy in device manager only has listed A280 and I3 (no DMA).

chinny22 wrote on 2020-01-24, 00:01:

I would expect the same as you. Point a dos game at the ESS resources and that's what gets used no matter what windows has as the preferred device.
I've only get creative cards in similar duel sound card setups so maybe it's something to do with the ESS but doubt it.

The problem is I'm not using the default "use automatic settings" for the ESS and the Audigy. I manually choose their settings. Windows should NOT be able to change them (like Windows even gives me a warning saying something about how if I turn off those automatic settings Windows isn't able to change things itself if it needs to). Yet despite that, even when I'm running a DOS game in Windows where I've already configured both the Sound FX and Music to be on the ESS's IRQ/DMA/etc (i.e. NOT the ones the Audigy uses), I STILL get Sound FX coming from the Audigy!


foil_fresh wrote on 2020-01-24, 02:59:

1) skipping audio on boot - do you have daemon tools mounting anything? is there a usb drive connected? try stopping/disconnecting these.

I have both, i'll give it a go and see if it helps. Still doesn't help with the Creative demo like I mentioned to Chinny22 above. Not a big deal, just wanted to make sure these two things aren't indicative of another problem/issue.

foil_fresh wrote on 2020-01-24, 02:59:

2)i would test setting the ESS as 240/7/1 (if it's possible) and midi port 360, so that windows handles the Audigy and there's no conflicts.

It was a bit limited on what I could change them to. I'll see if the above is possible. I was worried that if I started moving other devices around that I would make a mess so I was sticking to what it would let me
in the drop-down boxes in device manager. What would I set the Audigy to then?

foil_fresh wrote on 2020-01-24, 02:59:

3) you'll need to intialise the Audigy with the audio mixer config set to have line-in unmuted. You won't necessarily need to assign resources for sound or even have the card "work", we just need the input to mix. The SB Live dos drivers "Livedos" may work without needing to install the windows side of things: https://www.philscomputerlab.com/uploads/3/7/ … 621/livedos.zip - i have not tested this with an audigy but i have read that windows drivers for a Live! card can work on Audigy cards that have similar chips..? i might be tripping but its worth a shot. Emu10k1 on SB Live and Emu10k2 on Audigy... might be close enough to work.

OR, I can just switch the line ins, like a a took a guess about, right? I think this might be the simplest, especially since I only have the line-in-not-working problem when I reboot to dos - and if I simply switch the line-in/outs I should be good for DOS then as well (since it doesn't matter if the Audigy isn't throwing sound to the line-in on the ESS....unless I go down the route of installing Audigy DOS drivers too which I think might be a little much for what I'm trying to do....especially with people saying 16-bit vs. 8-bit might not even be a difference I would notice).

Reply 5 of 32, by foil_fresh

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I would let Windows handle the Audigy resources - i think with the stock WDM driver, it just assigns a resource for the PCI device which is WSS compatible. can you get a screencap of the resources of both cards from device manager? i'm curious to see how it is set up now.

yeah if you are ok with swapping cables then that's sweet. i have 4 pcs stacked and dont want to change cords so this is my way of handling an ISA and PCI card in DOS/Win98.

Reply 6 of 32, by Joseph_Joestar

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Dochartaigh wrote on 2020-01-24, 03:28:

Thanks. Any detriments to using the VxD drivers vs WDM?

None that I know of. In fact, people here tend to recommend VxD over WDM for Windows 98 as it usually provides better performance and fewer bugs.

And once you install the DOS drivers the Audigy can then work in both Windows and DOS, correct? (but in 'reboot to DOS' mode you'll have to run the Audigy patch program on every startup I believe they said, right?).

With the DOS driver pack installed, you'll get full SB16 support in the Windows 98 DOS prompt as well as in pure DOS that you enter via "Restart in MS-DOS mode". And yes, you will need to initialize the card using "audigy12.exe" every time you boot into pure DOS (but not under Win98).

However, note that you can't load .sf2 sound fonts in pure DOS and are stuck with the inferior .ecw sound modules for general midi. Sound fonts in .sf2 format only work inside the Win98 DOS prompt.

I really liked your recording of Doom using soundfonts in that link...but I know nearly nothing about them and didn't even know the Audigy 2 ZS could do them (thought those were only for ISA DOS midi cards with addons like the Dreamblaster? but I'm probably totally butchering that explanation).

Sound fonts in .sf2 format can be loaded by the Audigy2 ZS under Windows 98 without problems. I go into a bit more detail about that in this thread.

The good thing about the Audigy is that it uses your system memory to load them instead of on-board memory modules like most other cards. This allows you to load higher quality .sf2 files like the almost 50 MB large SC-55 sound font that I use nowadays. There's a setting in Creative's SoundBank Font Manager utility that you need to change in order to increase the maximum file size, I think it's called SoundFont Cache.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 7 of 32, by Dochartaigh

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foil_fresh wrote on 2020-01-24, 04:19:

can you get a screencap of the resources of both cards from device manager? i'm curious to see how it is set up now.

Here's a little album I made of the settings, complete with some comments: https://imgur.com/a/gU4QBVG. I'm still totally confused how Windows can change these sound settings, when I literally get a pop-up from Windows telling me the system won't be able to make any changes once I made both of the sound cards settings manual... like how does that make sense?

foil_fresh wrote on 2020-01-24, 04:19:

yeah if you are ok with swapping cables then that's sweet. i have 4 pcs stacked and dont want to change cords so this is my way of handling an ISA and PCI card in DOS/Win98.

So the thing is I don't want to ever have to swap cables. I think if I route the Audigy through the ESS (with the ESS going to the speakers directly), that when the Audigy cuts off it's passthrough ability when in DOS mode (because there's no drivers telling it to pass through sound), it won't matter since I'll only be using ESS in DOS anyway (unless of course I actually try those hacked Audigy 1/2 patch drivers...which i'm honestly thinking about now 😉


Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-01-24, 08:04:

None that I know of. In fact, people here tend to recommend VxD over WDM for Windows 98 as it usually provides better performance and fewer bugs.

Great! I will try this tonight. Do I have to remove the WDM ones through add/remove programs? Then Reboot, and install the new ones? (sorry, it's been ~15 years since I used Windows so I'm still super rusty).

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-01-24, 08:04:

With the DOS driver pack installed, you'll get full SB16 support in the Windows 98 DOS prompt as well as in pure DOS that you enter via "Restart in MS-DOS mode". And yes, you will need to initialize the card using "audigy12.exe" every time you boot into pure DOS (but not under Win98).

However, note that you can't load .sf2 sound fonts in pure DOS and are stuck with the inferior .ecw sound modules for general midi. Sound fonts in .sf2 format only work inside the Win98 DOS prompt.

I filmed this short video last night showing the ESS Midi (set through the games music menu as 'Generic Midi' if my memory serves), then I tried a couple different SB Audigy ones and the difference is quite large. So this is what soundfonts are about? Even with the generic built-in ones the Audigy has it sounds WAY better!

I'm also taking an educated guess that when I was initially looking for an ISA sound card for DOS, people wanted me to get a couple different ones which had extended midi features, I'm assuming with soundfonts? And this is the detriment of my regular ESS ISA sound card which doesn't have the ability to use soundfonts (which I think I can get the Dreamblaster to plug into it though, then use soundfonts, right?). And this is also the detriment of a regular "normally used for Windows ONLY" sound card like the Audigy - that those midi soundfonts can ONLY be used from within Windows, and once I boot into DOS proper I can no longer use them?


....if the above holds true....thanks guys....I now want a sound card where I can use soundfonts in pure DOS mode as well! I'll have to finish going through my game list though - if there's only one or two DOS games which I can't get to run through Windows (i.e. have to reboot into DOS), then it might not be worth it for me, as it seems like I can get this soundfont functionality to work through Windows with the Audigy...

I would still like all your advice on how to best setup the system as it is right now please - I still think there's some issues that need to be worked through (and I def need to expand my knowledge-base to understand how to do this properly). Thanks.

Reply 8 of 32, by Joseph_Joestar

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Dochartaigh wrote on 2020-01-24, 15:07:

Do I have to remove the WDM ones through add/remove programs? Then Reboot, and install the new ones? (sorry, it's been ~15 years since I used Windows so I'm still super rusty).

No, don't uninstall the WDM drivers manually, it might cause issues. Simply click Start > Programs > Creative > Sound Blaster AudigyZS > Utility > Driver Utility Program. From there, select "Install VxD Driver" and it will do the rest automatically, assuming your driver CD is inserted.

I filmed this short video last night showing the ESS Midi (set through the games music menu as 'Generic Midi' if my memory serves), then I tried a couple different SB Audigy ones and the difference is quite large. So this is what soundfonts are about? Even with the generic built-in ones the Audigy has it sounds WAY better!

I'm not very familiar with ESS cards as I never owned one, but from what I understand, they emulate OPL3 FM synthesis, meaning they sound close to the original SB16. On the other hand, the Audigy can emulate a Roland SC-55 if you use the proper sound font, and that was the device which most developers used while composing game music during the mid/late 90s. For that reason, most DOS games with midi music sound best on a SC-55, but there are some exceptions.

I'm also taking an educated guess that when I was initially looking for an ISA sound card for DOS, people wanted me to get a couple different ones which had extended midi features, I'm assuming with soundfonts? And this is the detriment of my regular ESS ISA sound card which doesn't have the ability to use soundfonts (which I think I can get the Dreamblaster to plug into it though, then use soundfonts, right?). And this is also the detriment of a regular "normally used for Windows ONLY" sound card like the Audigy - that those midi soundfonts can ONLY be used from within Windows, and once I boot into DOS proper I can no longer use them?

I don't know much about using sound fonts in pure DOS, someone else will have to chime in on that. Personally, I use an Opti ISA card in pure DOS for OPL3 FM synthesis and SBPro emulation, while keeping the Audigy 2 ZS as my General Midi solution for games that I run under the Windows 98 DOS prompt. The reason is two fold, firstly I prefer OPL3 to General Midi in some games (nostalgia reasons) and secondly, because the Audigy SB16 compatibility isn't working properly in a couple of games. Also, a few games refuse to even start under the Win98 DOS prompt and require pure DOS to run.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 9 of 32, by Dochartaigh

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-01-24, 16:06:

I'm not very familiar with ESS cards as I never owned one, but from what I understand, they emulate OPL3 FM synthesis, meaning they sound close to the original SB16. On the other hand, the Audigy can emulate a Roland SC-55 if you use the proper sound font, and that was the device which most developers used while composing game music during the mid/late 90s. For that reason, most DOS games with midi music sound best on a SC-55, but there are some exceptions.

I'm still learning all this, but I thought my ESS is 8-bit - but it sounds like the SB16 (which Sound Blaster 16 is 16-bit, right?).

Is the different between the ESS (with OPL3 FM synthesis/~SB16), and Roland SC-55 (close-ish to my Audigy) that drastic to a layman? On that video I posted the first part is the ESS (OPL3 FM synthesis/~SB16), and the second is the Audigy... which even with the default soundfonts sounds like night and day from the ESS.

Or do you think I have the ESS setup wrong?

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-01-24, 16:06:

I don't know much about using sound fonts in pure DOS, someone else will have to chime in on that. Personally, I use an Opti ISA card in pure DOS for OPL3 FM synthesis and SBPro emulation, while keeping the Audigy 2 ZS as my General Midi solution for games that I run under the Windows 98 DOS prompt. The reason is two fold, firstly I prefer OPL3 to General Midi in some games (nostalgia reasons) and secondly, because the Audigy SB16 compatibility isn't working properly in a couple of games. Also, a few games refuse to even start under the Win98 DOS prompt and require pure DOS to run.

I'm experiencing the same thing with DOS games in Windows 98 SE. I'm testing and making a list (which I'm only like 10 games deep into 🤣) to see which games I HAVE to run in pure DOS (and i.e. which ones don't have hacks or mods or setting edits I can leverage, and I HAVE no other choice but to run from DOS).

I just started, but so far Monkey Island (1) won't play in Windows at all - plays fine in DOS proper. Monkey Island 2 plays nice in Windows, but I get some ticking sound on the music which isn't there in native DOS. Also getting some video limitations in games in Windows too - like Quake will only do 1280x1024 max in Windows, but can do 1600x1200 in DOS (and it seems like my GeForce 4 ti 4600 is actually up to that task 😉

This is also why I now want to learn more about soundfonts - I REALLY like how those DOS games sound when run in Windows and the Audigy is doing it's thing with the soundfonts. If I can get that in DOS as well (which sounds like I'll need another ISA sound card, or a module for my current ESS), where they can use soundfonts in DOS I'll be super happy.

Reply 10 of 32, by Joseph_Joestar

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Dochartaigh wrote on 2020-01-24, 18:56:

I'm still learning all this, but I thought my ESS is 8-bit - but it sounds like the SB16 (which Sound Blaster 16 is 16-bit, right?).

Depends on which mode the card runs in. Your ESS has a SBPro compatible mode and an native ESS Audiodrive mode. It is capable of 16-bit sound sampling in its native mode for games that support it. This only applies to sound effects and character voices, not midi music.

Is the different between the ESS (with OPL3 FM synthesis/~SB16), and Roland SC-55 (close-ish to my Audigy) that drastic to a layman? On that video I posted the first part is the ESS (OPL3 FM synthesis/~SB16), and the second is the Audigy... which even with the default soundfonts sounds like night and day from the ESS.

A Sound Blaster 16 came with OPL3 FM synthesis for midi playback. It also had a wavetable header for attaching a daughter board (sold separately) which could then provide wave table synthesis for General Midi playback. From my limited knowledge of ESS cards, its FM synthesis sounds very close to how OPL3 sounded on a SB16. On the other hand, the Audigy using sound fonts and running in General Midi mode sounds more like wavetable synthesis and/or a Roland SC-55, depending on which sound font is used.

This is also why I now want to learn more about soundfonts - I REALLY like how those DOS games sound when run in Windows and the Audigy is doing it's thing with the soundfonts. If I can get that in DOS as well (which sounds like I'll need another ISA sound card, or a module for my current ESS), where they can use soundfonts in DOS I'll be super happy.

I can highly recommend Phil's Computer Lab YouTube channel, specifically the sound card review playlist. His videos are very informative.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 12 of 32, by Joseph_Joestar

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kolderman wrote on 2020-01-24, 22:46:

> OPL3 FM synthesis for midi playback
You want me to pull the rest of my hair out?

Would "FM synthesis provided by an OPL3 chip" sound better?

English isn't my first language so I'm not very familiar with the proper terminology.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 13 of 32, by kolderman

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-01-24, 22:53:
kolderman wrote on 2020-01-24, 22:46:

> OPL3 FM synthesis for midi playback
You want me to pull the rest of my hair out?

Would "FM synthesis provided by an OPL3 chip" sound better?

English isn't my first language so I'm not very familiar with the proper terminology.

It's not that. Opl is not a midi device in any way.

Reply 14 of 32, by Joseph_Joestar

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kolderman wrote on 2020-01-24, 23:19:

It's not that. Opl is not a midi device in any way.

See, this confuses me, even though I believe you are correct.

Back in the day, I used to say "it has midi music" for any DOS games unless they used red book CD audio (e.g. Mortal Kombat 3) or sample based tracks (e.g. Jazz Jackrabbit). I called it "midi music" regardless of whether it was played back through an OPL3 chip or via wavetable synthesis, which was probably wrong. The reason I did that was because most games in their setup wanted me to "Select a MIDI driver" and then included "Sound Blaster 16 OPL3" as one of the selection choices.

What is the proper term for this type of music then? Let's say the music that Doom uses, for example?

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 15 of 32, by kolderman

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I don't recall that. And I am not aware of any games that say "select midi" and have opl as an option. Most games I know say "select music" and have midi and adlib as separate options.

While it is true some games used middleware to provide midi engines that could target opl, most good adlib music is just unique fm sound generation.

Reply 16 of 32, by Joseph_Joestar

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kolderman wrote on 2020-01-25, 00:09:

I don't recall that. And I am not aware of any games that say "select midi" and have opl as an option.

Here's a screenshot from the Settlers 2 Gold setup.exe. It specifically says that MIDI music is provided by an OPL3 device, as wrong as that may be.

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Most games that use the Miles Sound System have a screen just like that. I'm not saying it's the correct way to label things, just that this was what I experienced back in they day and it caused me to call this "midi music".

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 17 of 32, by Dochartaigh

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-01-23, 21:48:

To use that SB16 Audigy 2 ZS pack, you need to have VxD drivers installed, not WDM drivers which is what the CD installs by default.

Here is the method that I got from browsing various threads on this forum. Note that the Audigy's SB16 legacy device will require A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 and I don't think that can be changed manually. This doesn't affect my setup as I don't use a second sound card under Windows 98, but it could cause conflicts in your case since the ESS currently uses some of those resources.

I'm about 6 hours in trying to get the Audigy drivers to work in DOS....and I think I just gave-up. Getting all sorts of errors:

• Having two Audigy VxD's listed in Device Manager, both of which have yellow exclamation points next to them (directions said would only be one ! after a 2nd install and the other would work).
• driver installers aren't finding the files on the driver CD's (either Windows or Audigy CD) -- quasi workaround is to extract the .cab from the Audigy CD to the desktop then it'll find some of those
• once VxD is installed properly, and I boot to DOS and have the SBEINIT.com running, run the patch, keep getting a"config file is incomplete SBPort error"....still can't find a solution to that, tried all sorts of configs
• half way through I lost all sound, from either card, with just "(1000)" listed in device manager
• the entire Emulation folder under Emu10kx disappeared during two of my tries...so I couldn't edit that registry value without remaking it
• Then after I tried uninstalling everything to start over, everywhere I used to have the Audigy drivers, although they're back to WDM version, appends "(1000)" to the end of the file name (in Device Manager, and Multimedia where I set Midi preferences).... and games are not playing nice with the Audigy and ESS anymore and the ESS doesn't even work when I reboot into DOS mode right now... Generic midi isn't working in Windows either......and I'm thinking of reformatting the computer yet again 🤣.

Reply 18 of 32, by Joseph_Joestar

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Dochartaigh wrote on 2020-01-25, 06:12:

I'm about 6 hours in trying to get the Audigy drivers to work in DOS....and I think I just gave-up. Getting all sorts of errors:

Getting the Audigy 2 ZS SB16 emulation to work is complicated even with just a single card. I imagine having an additional card present and competing for resources would make the situation even more complex.

Try physically removing the ESS card and doing a clean install of Windows + Audigy drivers in this order:

1) Install Audigy WDM drivers normally from the CD
2) Run the Driver Utility Program and let it install VxD drivers
3) Make the EnableSB16Emulation=1 registry change as mentioned here
4) Install the DOS compatibility pack once
5) Go to Control Panel > Add New Hardware and manually add a second SB16 Emulation device as instructed in the linked thread

This should work assuming that all the resources the Audigy needs are free, so A220 I5 D1 H5 P330. You can check if those resources are in use via Start > Programs > Accessories > System Information then going to Hardware Resources and checking the IRQ, DMA and Address sections, respectively. Once you get the Audigy running properly, then you can try re-adding the ESS card.

For reference, this is how the end result looks like on my system:

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PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 19 of 32, by Dochartaigh

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-01-25, 07:10:

Getting the Audigy 2 ZS SB16 emulation to work is complicated even with just a single card. I imagine having an additional card present and competing for resources would make the situation even more complex.

Thank you for the instructions. I ordered another cheap hard drive so I'll try again once that comes in (I'm in the middle of trying to get all my games working, and taking notes on which ones I need to research to get working, so I don't want to reformat in the middle of that).

Here's a little photo album I made last night in my frustration to show some of the hiccups I've been getting. Maybe you'll see something amiss I just was messing up, or it'll shed light on the issues I'm having.

I think one of the problems is the process after I add the VxD drivers. After those drivers are installed, and it's supposed to add the hardware for the first time (which has an exclamation point) how exactly does it add the hardware there - I was getting quite a few reboots, then after like 5-10 minutes yet another prompt pops up about new hardware and it makes me reboot for like a 3rd? time... Then how exactly do I add it a second time? You can see the screenshots from that process, but where do you get/choose the EXACT drivers I'm supposed to manually add? They are NOT on the Audigy CD where the windows program tries to grab them from - unless it's hidden ~5 folders deep, the only ones are INSIDE that .cab file (which it took me literally 7-10 times redoing this process over and over again to realize that I had to manually extract what I think to be the correct one from that .cab file, which is the sb16.inf file I think).


And lastly, can you please tell me if my premise in trying to do all this is correct: for Midi music, I was going into the Multimedia Properties, Midi tab, and selecting ESS FM Synthesizer which gave me sound like I remembered from back in the day when I had crappy computers with built-in sound. THEN I discovered I can choose the Audigy for Midi, by choosing the "SB Audigy 2 ZS Sw Synth" (and there looks to be an A and B version of this too), and it sounds WAY better (see my short video above for a comparison). I believe that's because the Audigy is using Soundfonts, right? (and it was mentioned they're pretty close to the gold standard Roland SC-55?) - so if I even like the sound of the default/stock soundfonts, am I going to be able to use this Audigy in pure DOS mode, and STILL get it to use the soundfonts and sound like I can get it to sound through Windows?

If so, that would be awesome. If not, I think I need to do research on that Dreamblaster (which there seems to be like 8 different versions of 🤣) everybody keeps talking about (which I think can also use soundfonts, and I think can plug in directly to my ESS EF1869F card too!).