dionb wrote on 2020-08-12, 21:11:

yawetaG wrote on 2020-08-12, 16:49:

Some comments: […]
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Some comments:

dionb wrote on 2020-08-11, 21:30:

A couple of options:

- Roland A-880 8 in, 8 out. Primitive, but does the job excellently. Unfortunately rare/expensive outside of Japan

Get a Japanese one and do the 5 Volt wall wart conversion.

- Edirol UM880. 8x8 instead of UM550's 5x5. Great, but usually VERY expensive.

Great solution if you are using older operating systems. However, no new drivers will be produced, and getting the existing ones to work gets harder and harder.

- Yamaha MJC8. 8x8. Looks good, but menu-heavy configuration.

Can do some interesting tricks with MIDI and sysex. Old Yamaha unit, so menu-diving is to be expected.

- Kawai MAV-8. 4x8, which isn't many inputs for the size of the beast. If I could find one very cheap I might do it, but that's not likely.

You can find them for as low as $15 in Japan. Fully mechanical and build like a tank (like most Kawai gear).

- Korg KMP-68. 6x8, again the wrong way round for my purposes. Looks really good (turn knobs 😀 ) but tends to be expensive & in Japan.

Turn knobs can wear out.

- Akai ME80P, 6x8, see above, just more 80's HIFI vibe

Ancient, complex, manual not online, can do some cool things, suffers from age-related electronics issues that can make it go crazy and/or just fail suddenly.

- MOTU MIDI Timepiece AV, 8x8. Probably the cheapest option, but as it is so much more than just a patchbay, I'm a bit intimidated by its complexity.p

There are multiple versions, some with atrocious driver support, some Mac-only, some with firmware issues. Usually will work well when you're lucky, on a limited set of OS'es (basically limit yourself to an OS that was released when your particular unit was current).

Then there are also patchbays with little or no controls on the device itself, designed to be controlled by PC. Sounds great, but driver support is usually so vintage it becomes on-topic here ( 😜 ). I just want buttons that work, but if you want to consider software, take a look at OPCODE Studio 64X, Emagic AMT8 etc.

Emagic units can be programmed to recall 100 or so programs, so are handy if your setup doesn't change much. Unitor Mk. I has no USB, only serial. Unitor Mk. II has USB, AMT8 is cheaper version of Unitor Mk. II with less features. It's possible to stack up to 8 units via serial cable. The problem is that the patch editor software is a modified version of SoundDiver that is not particularly stable and hasn't been updated since years, but apparently there is a special Apple driver that makes the USB version work on modern Macs.

Tbh not interested in any sw interfaces, I just want to be able to select manually, preferably without any menus. Any modern systems I need to hookup will do so through dedicated MIDI interfaces (my 2016-era 'support' PC has a PCI card with MIDI in/out). That means for 8x8 I'm limited to A-880 and UM880, with Korg if I drop requirement to 6x8 (and can find one cheap). Still, not in a hurry here, so for now I'll just keep using my UM550 and watch out for alternatives until I see one for a price I'm willing to pay (not multiple hundreds of EUR).

dionb, Just checking so I'm not out sailing on lost waters, the USB can be used instead of a Midi to USB like roland um-one mk2? Thanks

Loganix wrote on 2020-08-12, 13:02:

Cloudschatze, Yes I agree that it's a bit overkill at the moment. I'm just thinking a head as well, if I want to get more modules in the future and connect to several computers with an ease of a switch-box and do some comparing. I'm quite new at this with midi and your suggestion will work the best for now I believe. Still, I need to read up some more on how to use this SysEx.

There are several ways to go about this, but here's an example concerning your current setup.

• Configure the MIDI chain as follows: AWE64 -> SC-55 -> MT-32
• Optionally, connect the audio output from the MT-32 to the SC-55's inputs. This both saves the need for an additional line input elsewhere, and provides a single volume knob for controlling the analog levels of both devices. If you already have some sort of mixer, this is likely irrelevant.
• Extract the files in the attached archive to some directory represented in your PATH variable (the included batch files are configured for "C:\DOS" - modify as necessary).
• "Switch" between the two devices by specifying either "MT" or "SC" via the command-line, or nest a call to the relevant batch file into that of any specific game, for a set-it-and-forget-it approach.

Here's an example of what this looks like in practice (albeit, using MFPLAY in lieu of DUMP, and in a three-module setup, no less), where the "switching" is completely transparent.
https://youtu.be/6qigDyrBC5k?t=523

dionb wrote on 2020-08-12, 21:11:

Tbh not interested in any sw interfaces, I just want to be able to select manually, preferably without any menus. Any modern systems I need to hookup will do so through dedicated MIDI interfaces (my 2016-era 'support' PC has a PCI card with MIDI in/out). That means for 8x8 I'm limited to A-880 and UM880, with Korg if I drop requirement to 6x8 (and can find one cheap). Still, not in a hurry here, so for now I'll just keep using my UM550 and watch out for alternatives until I see one for a price I'm willing to pay (not multiple hundreds of EUR).

The ones with less MIDI ins also are an option if you add in a MIDI merge box that's hooked up to one of the MIDI ins.

Not all SW ones are purely SW, some (like the Emagic units) only use software for configuration and then can step through the configured options using a button or a pedal.

One point of attention is that not all MIDI interfaces are created equal and some can't handle sysex properly (including older versions of the A880).

And in the future this thing will be an option:

https://kentonuk.com/interchanger/

Although it will likely fail the "not multiple hundreds of EUR"-requirement, but a new option that is not 20-40 years old by this point is welcome. And Kenton being Kenton it will handle any MIDI properly.

Loganix wrote on 2020-08-13, 02:20:

dionb, Just checking so I'm not out sailing on lost waters, the USB can be used instead of a Midi to USB like roland um-one mk2? Thanks

I'm not dionb, but I can answer the question.

Yes, but the mode it can use depends on the operating system. Basically it has USB class-compliant mode and a special mode that enables additional features. The latter won't work on newer operating systems, because the drivers were never updated to anything modern (the UM units were released around 2000, so are 20 years old by now).

Cloudschatze wrote on 2020-08-13, 03:14:

There are several ways to go about this, but here's an example concerning your current setup. […]
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Loganix wrote on 2020-08-12, 13:02:

Cloudschatze, Yes I agree that it's a bit overkill at the moment. I'm just thinking a head as well, if I want to get more modules in the future and connect to several computers with an ease of a switch-box and do some comparing. I'm quite new at this with midi and your suggestion will work the best for now I believe. Still, I need to read up some more on how to use this SysEx.

There are several ways to go about this, but here's an example concerning your current setup.

• Configure the MIDI chain as follows: AWE64 -> SC-55 -> MT-32
• Optionally, connect the audio output from the MT-32 to the SC-55's inputs. This both saves the need for an additional line input elsewhere, and provides a single volume knob for controlling the analog levels of both devices. If you already have some sort of mixer, this is likely irrelevant.
• Extract the files in the attached archive to some directory represented in your PATH variable (the included batch files are configured for "C:\DOS" - modify as necessary).
• "Switch" between the two devices by specifying either "MT" or "SC" via the command-line, or nest a call to the relevant batch file into that of any specific game, for a set-it-and-forget-it approach.

Here's an example of what this looks like in practice (albeit, using MFPLAY in lieu of DUMP, and in a three-module setup, no less), where the "switching" is completely transparent.
https://youtu.be/6qigDyrBC5k?t=523

Cloudschatze, Thank you very much for the information you provided, it will come very much in handy on my new journey for discovering the joy of the sound of the past. I'm still in the process of finding the right path with which equipment to select. I'm looking into old Roland equipment but they're quite expensive, alas I'll probably have to cough up the money since I'm trying to stay as pure as possible. I'm reading about a MPU-401 MIDI Interface Card with Intelligent Mode created by Keropi and Marmes and it seems really good.

Very nice videos and by the way, I believe I saw on another post with a picture of a setup of yours If I'm not mistaken, Black Roland monitors, couple of towers, and Dune II on a Dell monitor and keyboard I'd love for my Dell XPS D333. I'm far behind with equipment and sometimes I curse myself for throwing away my old 486 and other computers, never did I ever think about the power of nostalgia!

yawetaG wrote on 2020-08-13, 05:58:

Loganix wrote on 2020-08-13, 02:20:

dionb, Just checking so I'm not out sailing on lost waters, the USB can be used instead of a Midi to USB like roland um-one mk2? Thanks

I'm not dionb, but I can answer the question.

Yes, but the mode it can use depends on the operating system. Basically it has USB class-compliant mode and a special mode that enables additional features. The latter won't work on newer operating systems, because the drivers were never updated to anything modern (the UM units were released around 2000, so are 20 years old by now).

yawetaG , Thank you for giving me more insight in the subject. From what I gather there is a Win 7 driver for the device. I'm happy to say that I've just bought a Edirol UM-550 from the USA for 165$ with shipping included. Hopefully it'll work well since I'm planning on getting more midi modules and do some comparisons. Now for the long wait for it to be processed and shipped to Sweden.

The Kenton Interchanger seems interesting for the future to come as well.

Loganix wrote on 2020-08-17, 00:28:

yawetaG wrote on 2020-08-13, 05:58:

Loganix wrote on 2020-08-13, 02:20:

dionb, Just checking so I'm not out sailing on lost waters, the USB can be used instead of a Midi to USB like roland um-one mk2? Thanks

I'm not dionb, but I can answer the question.

Yes, but the mode it can use depends on the operating system. Basically it has USB class-compliant mode and a special mode that enables additional features. The latter won't work on newer operating systems, because the drivers were never updated to anything modern (the UM units were released around 2000, so are 20 years old by now).

yawetaG , Thank you for giving me more insight in the subject. From what I gather there is a Win 7 driver for the device. I'm happy to say that I've just bought a Edirol UM-550 from the USA for 165$ with shipping included. Hopefully it'll work well since I'm planning on getting more midi modules and do some comparisons. Now for the long wait for it to be processed and shipped to Sweden.

Okay, to pre-empt a possible "Help, it won't work", the unit needs to be switched between driver modes from the front panel, according to the instructions that are in the manual: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/315040/Edir … ?page=49#manual...
Since it's a programmable patch bay, reading the manual is recommended.

yawetaG wrote on 2020-08-17, 06:07:

[...]

Okay, to pre-empt a possible "Help, it won't work", the unit needs to be switched between driver modes from the front panel, according to the instructions that are in the manual: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/315040/Edir … ?page=49#manual...
Since it's a programmable patch bay, reading the manual is recommended.

Indeed.

But for simplest patching, just press "Patch", then choose the input and outputs and it does exactly that. One of the reasons I like this beast - if you don't want complex stuff, no menu hell 😀