This Card also appears to have a QSound QX2130 QXpander chip onboard. From a quick look up this is a sound processor? Does this do some sort of effect processing?

QX2130 features:
Virtual 3D sound from ordinary audio signals.
Three enhanced modes:
- Pro Listening
- Wide Listening
- Wow for Games

mkarcher wrote on 2020-06-28, 10:43:

Bancho wrote on 2020-06-27, 20:06:

This has what appears to be a Motorola LS245 20 Pin chip on board. Is this an OPL clone? […]
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This has what appears to be a Motorola LS245 20 Pin chip on board. Is this an OPL clone?

No, that one is the real 74LS245, an 8-bit buffer chip. You can be sure because 8 pins on one side of that chip are directly connected to the ISA data pins. That does not fit for the OPL clones, but is the usual application for a 74LS245 as ISA data buffer.

Do you think it would be possible to add Genuine OPL3 to this card? There appears to be a empty location above the LS254 which looks to have the same pinout at a YMF262

Bancho wrote on 2020-07-08, 11:11:

mkarcher wrote on 2020-06-28, 10:43:

Bancho wrote on 2020-06-27, 20:06:

This has what appears to be a Motorola LS245 20 Pin chip on board. Is this an OPL clone? […]
Show full quote

This has what appears to be a Motorola LS245 20 Pin chip on board. Is this an OPL clone?

No, that one is the real 74LS245, an 8-bit buffer chip. You can be sure because 8 pins on one side of that chip are directly connected to the ISA data pins. That does not fit for the OPL clones, but is the usual application for a 74LS245 as ISA data buffer.

Do you think it would be possible to add Genuine OPL3 to this card? There appears to be a empty location above the LS254 which looks to have the same pinout at a YMF262

FM is most likely being provided by the CS9233 chip (along with wavetable). Changing that would require redirecting some traces and finding a place to put the OPL3 and DAC.

This should be a sticky!

As most ALS cards from cheap manufacturers output a lot of noise, I wonder what will be the best method to record the cleanest sound possible...

At least 3D melody has line output, which is fairly clean.

Here's an ALS200 with a similar "LS245" chip 😀

I have yet to plug it in, but according to the multimeter, every pin of that "LS245" chip links up with that footprint of where a YMF262 chip would fit 😉

edit: huh, the PCB layout is the same as the 1st picture in the 1st post, cool.

Cool! 😎 I love the fact that these LS chips come in proper DIL/DIP form factor rather than SMD.
That's something I always disliked about the original. It cannot be removed, because there are no sockets for SMD chips.
(Well, there are, strictly speaking. But they are very expensive, rare and meant for prototyping/development only.)

Jo22 wrote on 2020-08-22, 03:31:

Cool! 😎 I love the fact that these LS chips come in proper DIL/DIP form factor rather than SMD.
That's something I always disliked about the original. It cannot be removed, because there are no sockets for SMD chips.
(Well, there are, strictly speaking. But they are very expensive, rare and meant for prototyping/development only.)

Is there a point to socketing these? I know of no possible replacements in the same packaging..

Thanks for this info. Here's a couple of pics of a card i got off ebay a couple of weeks ago.

appiah4 wrote on 2020-08-22, 08:01:

Jo22 wrote on 2020-08-22, 03:31:

Cool! 😎 I love the fact that these LS chips come in proper DIL/DIP form factor rather than SMD.
That's something I always disliked about the original. It cannot be removed, because there are no sockets for SMD chips.
(Well, there are, strictly speaking. But they are very expensive, rare and meant for prototyping/development only.)

Is there a point to socketing these? I know of no possible replacements in the same packaging..

It's just my personal preference, I guess. The YM3812 (OPL2) was sometimes socketed, too. To my understanding, professional gear uses sockets, traditionally.
RAM, CPUs and sound chips of the past (SID, SAA1099 etc) were also often socketed, so they could be replaced. Or "borrowed" for other use cases. 😉
Most SMD parts (excl. PLCC), on the otherhand, leave a bitter aftertaste, IMHO. According to my gut feeling, they belong in the same category as glued chassis (Macs) and non-removable rechargeables (cell phones). 😁

Sockets (in professional stuff in particular) are only ever used for things that need to be removed at some point for servicing reasons, such as memory chips that can be reprogrammed or replaced with a more recent version, or sometimes really expensive parts such as CPUs or video chips. Socket is extra cost and point of failure and their use is minimized whenever possible.

Tiido wrote on 2020-08-23, 00:01:

Socket is extra cost and point of failure and their use is minimized whenever possible.

I'm sorry, butI have a different opinion. Cost reduction from a rational
point of view is very unprofessional and belongs to consumer products which are designed to break, anyway (forced obsolescence) .
Universities, research centers and military rather prefer modular design and quality.
Or at least that's how it used to be. Somewhere, somewhen ..
Considering that people use Raspberrys and alike without a shielded metal case, even (RFI) .. 🙄
As for the sockets.. There are different types.
The cheap ones for 10 Cents and the normal ones for ~80 Cents.
If someone makes a product, but isn't willing to spend a few Cents, then the product isn't worth anything, anyway.

Edit: Always that same, lame old excuse with "extra cost" (I don't blame you; it always pops up) .
Customers don't care if something costs 520€ or 521,70€. It's overpriced, anyway. Production cost, taxes etc. are often multiple times less, say about 80€. Sure, there's also rent to pay, employees..
(The true reason, for ommiting sockets, blocking caps etc. hower, is: greed/maximum profit/capitalism.
It looks clever at first, but backfires quickly [returns; claims for damage because someone's house burnt down etc]) .

Also, by using sockets, you avoid exposing ICs to heat (soldering iron). This lowers the chances of causing damage to the chips..
But these are just my two Cents. The truth likely is located somewhere in between. 😉

Edit: Fun fact : There a was a time when transistors were installed in sockets, too. Just like radio tubes. 😁
Edit: Edited.

Point of failure part stands and cost is not something someone pulled out their ass. It massively complicates assembly since it cannot be automated anymore and that is where the cost increases, time is worth much more money than the parts are. Some person must manually put stuff in and possibly even fixate it down so nobody in their right mind will socket everything just for the sake of it, only some bits that may need to be dealth with during servicing or something at some point or the really expensive parts that may move from one device to the next, possibly during testing and perhaps aftermarket situations.
Transistors used to be expensive things and not always the most reliable things, hence the sockets in the early stuff. Modern parts (anything made in the last 30 years or so) are reliable enough this is not necessary.

I have built a whole production run worth of boards (Rikki & Vikki for Atari 7800) and if I socketed all the parts it would have taken at least twice as much time to build everything, simply because all the extra work necessary, the cart would have been much more expensive as a result and reached the release much later also, a lose-lose situation to everyone involved... Partswise the sockets wouln't be more than few € per cart, but labourwise it more than twice that and even though it was just 600 carts, it adds up very quickly.

Universities, research centers and military rather prefer modular design and quality.

Which has nothing to do with cheap mass produced OEM sound cards with no real critical parts.

Imperious wrote on 2020-08-22, 08:30:

Thanks for this info. Here's a couple of pics of a card i got off ebay a couple of weeks ago.

Talking about cost reduction: I just bought an antique pentium-100 and it had this very soundcard. It wasn't working, and the big resistor in the board was running really hot. After desoldering, it seems to be just a really crude resistor + 5V zener power supply for the output amplifier! The zener seemed busted: 0.8V forward, wouldn't conduct even with reverse 48V. To test if that's the case, I soldered a 7805 instead of the resistor+zener:

And it worked! I'm not sure if it will catch fire afterwards, but for the present the the driver tests sound fine. I think I'll solder a SMD 5v regulator in place, and move on. I have spare zeners around, but this looks really horrible as a regulation scheme, not worth restoring.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-08-23, 23:49:

Universities, research centers and military rather prefer modular design and quality.

Which has nothing to do with cheap mass produced OEM sound cards with no real critical parts.

That's right, hence I used the term "professional" rather than "commercial". As in "profession". 😉
In addition, I was not explicitly talking about soundcards. Sound chips also were used in music instruments. 😋
And socketed CPUs also were needed for interposer boards. Just think of x86 emulator boards or acellerator boards.
They had to interface between CPU and Mainboard.

Edit: Never mind, though. I didn't mean to stomp one anybody's feet. What I wrote was merely my honest point of view, anyway.
Perhaps it's just me being too much of an idealist, rather than a business person. Not sure.

This is my card.
So, do you suggest upgrading the card by installing the Yamaha YMF262 IC and removing the fake IC? Pls suggest.

ayandon wrote on 2023-08-10, 18:33:

This is my card.
So, do you suggest upgrading the card by installing the Yamaha YMF262 IC and removing the fake IC? Pls suggest.

In my oppinion, there is no reason to do so. The fake FM chips are unlicensed but verbatim copies of the YMF262 IC, so while they were cheaper and Yamaha didn't get their licence/patent/whatever fee for them, they should sound the same.

Great detective work !

I know this thread is 4 years old but I need to ask two things

- Can you repost the picures? they have been removed on the original post
- I have a similar card that found on a scrap yard and someone removed almost all the inductors
Is there a way to know the inductors values ? a schematic ? or are they more or less the same values ?
I would like to repair this little card

Here are pictures of my card with the "suspicious" LS 245 chip

thank you

Just an FYI, prior to the mid 1970s transistors were a lot more heat sensitive and could be killed easily by soldering. That's a bigger reason why they were in sockets. Also why you'll find those funny little clips in older soldering gear marked "transistor heat sink" and you think, how does that dissipate heat off the can? It doesn't it's to clip the leg while you are soldering to protect the device.