VOGONS


Reply 20 of 39, by weedeewee

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scorp wrote on 2021-03-13, 12:40:

I am quite sure, that in many cases a bigger channel can make a big difference, but I can't tell, what it is exactly, what makes the final push. The quality of the content, the topic itself, or may be luck?! Who knows.... anyway, I'm doing my channel just for fun, so I don't care much. However, still very interesting how all this works....

Absolutely. I subscribed to your channel when I came across the MDA/CGA/EGA adapter. That 5v adapter on the other hand wouldn't have me subscribe, feels like a waste of space.

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Reply 21 of 39, by scorp

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I guess, many people see it like you do and though, this project attracted a lot of people, if you look at the counters and the discussions on Phils channel. And yes, I also don't see any system behind subscriptions. Some videos seem to attract people and some not. I made many different kinds, like restoration, PC rebuilding, soldering or creating a useful things, like the MCE-Adapter. Unfortunately, I still can't tell what people like the most. For me, the MCE-Adapter was one of the most exciting projects, but if you look at the numbers, people found it quite boring. What people seem to like is though is making some kind of semi old hardware useful again, but I'm pretty sure, that this viewers are not from the retro community, but sadly forced to watch such stuff out of economical reasons. I mean, not everybody in the world can afford a half way new PC, but there are plenty of used parts out there, which can be used to build something useful.... Despite, that I wish such people all the best, this is not the primer aim of my channel.... If I'd be after the clicks, I probably would do something like that, I guess....

My Youtube channel Necroware

Reply 22 of 39, by Sphere478

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Nice!! You guys are always coming up with cool stuff..

Need one for making 3.3v also.

Some boards don’t have that. Like some of the old socket 5 dual pentium boards

Btw, some atx and even some 24 pin atx did some with -5v the 24 pin that my dual pentium is using has -5v

So if building, simply finding a compatible psu may be the easiest route, but yeah, good solution for non -5v psus

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Reply 23 of 39, by Jo22

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So Phil is still alive? Haven't seen him for ages on Vogons.

Also, some cons of this design that come to mind:
- Wastes an ISA slot
- Misses further blocking caps of 100nf, 10uf etc
- No heat sink, no fuse
- The 7905 misses vital parts mentioned
in the official 78xx/79xx datasheet! Diodes, caps etc.

On the other hand, it uses a venerable linear voltage regulator, at least, which is good.
Not these modern ones with lots of ripples.

With a little bit of mental depth and effort, this thing could be useful to some users, though. 😉

Edit: Small edit. Typos fixed.
Edit: Added another picture.

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Last edited by Jo22 on 2021-03-13, 14:02. Edited 4 times in total.

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Reply 24 of 39, by 1541

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And hey, instead of mere talking about possible solutions, you'll be enabled to actually hold a working solution in your hand.

Last edited by 1541 on 2021-03-13, 19:37. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 25 of 39, by weedeewee

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1541 wrote on 2021-03-13, 13:50:

And hey, instead of mere talking about possible solutions, you'll be enabled to actually hold a working solution in your hand.

an easy solution I know of is this...
take an ATX-AT psu adapter cable
take one 7905
take three pieces of wire
take three pieces of heatshrink tubing
Solder wires to pins of 7905
slide heatshrink over solderjoints and heat'm up/shrink'm
take three of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30Pcs-22-10AWG-Car … de/402740016775 and add to wires on 7905
Connect 7905 to correct wires of ATX-AT psu adapter cable.
et voila.
for extra piece of mind, add one fuseholder + fuse to the correct wire.

And yeah, with the Pcb you have everything on a neat little board

...

Last edited by weedeewee on 2021-03-13, 14:12. Edited 1 time in total.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
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Reply 26 of 39, by scorp

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-13, 13:45:

Also, some cons of this design that come to mind:

Please don't mix 7805 and 7905. Although both are voltage regulators, they are used for different things. The 7805 is usually used to power something, that's why you could need all the other things you mentioned. The negative 5V and so 7905 is only used for reference in amplifiers and mixers. There is almost no current flowing. The circuit, which we used is actually a 1 to 1 implementation of the suggested solution from the datasheet. There is no need to over engineer it in some way. Also the heat sink is not required, since the regulator get barely warm in a usual case. Only if you want to plug multiple sound cards, which all need -5V, than you could think about screwing the IC to the PCB. Just in case it gets a bit warmer.

This is by the way, what I'm also talking about. I made a video, where I answered the most common questions, which came up in the discussion, as Phil published the video. But people bring all the suggestions again and again. Obviously nobody is really watching the second part 😁

My Youtube channel Necroware

Reply 27 of 39, by weedeewee

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-13, 13:45:
So Phil is still alive? Haven't seen him for ages on Vogons. […]
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So Phil is still alive? Haven't seen him for ages on Vogons.

Also, some cons of this design that come to mind:
- Wastes an ISA slot
- Misses further blocking caps of 100nf, 10uf etc
- No heat sink, no fuse
- The 7905 misses vital parts mentioned
in the official 78xx/79xx datasheet! Diodes, caps etc.

-It doesn't waste the slot it uses it to supply the -5v rail to the other slots, though I don't like the loss of a slot myself.
-Never heard of a linear regulator to have a blocking cap 😀
-They mention in the video that the 7905 can be coupled to a large copper pad which would serve as heatsink, though yeah, max dissipation would be about 7W.
-there's no parts missing, all the parts are there.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !

Reply 28 of 39, by scorp

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weedeewee wrote on 2021-03-13, 14:02:
The easiest solution I know of is this... take an ATX-AT psu adapter cable take one 7905 take three pieces of wire take three pi […]
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1541 wrote on 2021-03-13, 13:50:

And hey, instead of mere talking about possible solutions, you'll be enabled to actually hold a working solution in your hand.

The easiest solution I know of is this...
take an ATX-AT psu adapter cable
take one 7905
take three pieces of wire
take three pieces of heatshrink tubing
Solder wires to pins of 7905
slide heatshrink over solderjoints and heat'm up/shrink'm
take three of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30Pcs-22-10AWG-Car … de/402740016775 and add to wires on 7905
Connect 7905 to correct wires of ATX-AT psu adapter cable.
et voila.
for extra piece of mind, add one fuseholder + fuse to the correct wire.

And yeah, with the Pcb you have everything on a neat little board

...

True, but don't forget the capacitors.... Just as I told in my video, there is no THE solution, there can be many. We just made one, which is unusual and definitely has it's flaws, but still useful in many cases. If you need -5V in your retro machine, just plug it in. If you don't just remove it again 😀

My Youtube channel Necroware

Reply 29 of 39, by weedeewee

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scorp wrote on 2021-03-13, 14:08:

True, but don't forget the capacitors.... Just as I told in my video, there is no THE solution, there can be many. We just made one, which is unusual and definitely has it's flaws, but still useful in many cases. If you need -5V in your retro machine, just plug it in. If you don't just remove it again 😀

As I said last time, the caps aren't really needed in this situation, you've got your output caps in the psu and the 78xx/79xx series doesn't really require an output capacitor.
and I'll correct it to say 'an easy solution' :-p

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Do not ask Why !

Reply 30 of 39, by scorp

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weedeewee wrote on 2021-03-13, 14:12:
scorp wrote on 2021-03-13, 14:08:

True, but don't forget the capacitors.... Just as I told in my video, there is no THE solution, there can be many. We just made one, which is unusual and definitely has it's flaws, but still useful in many cases. If you need -5V in your retro machine, just plug it in. If you don't just remove it again 😀

As I said last time, the caps aren't really needed in this situation, you've got your output caps in the psu and the 78xx/79xx series doesn't really require an output capacitor.
and I'll correct it to say 'an easy solution' :-p

Well, you don't need them in the most cases, but regarding datasheet, you should still add them. I heard, that the in/out voltage could otherwise resonate against each other, which will lead to a very fast overload on the regulator. I didn't see such behavior yet myself, but some experienced guys told, they did. And it must be a bad thing, if it get's there, since the thing can even explode 😀

My Youtube channel Necroware

Reply 31 of 39, by Jo22

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scorp wrote on 2021-03-13, 14:04:
Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-13, 13:45:

Also, some cons of this design that come to mind:

Please don't mix 7805 and 7905. Although both are voltage regulators, they are used for different things. The 7805 is usually used to power something, that's why you could need all the other things you mentioned. The negative 5V and so 7905 is only used for reference in amplifiers and mixers. There is almost no current flowing. The circuit, which we used is actually a 1 to 1 implementation of the suggested solution from the datasheet. There is no need to over engineer it in some way. Also the heat sink is not required, since the regulator get barely warm in a usual case. Only if you want to plug multiple sound cards, which all need -5V, than you could think about screwing the IC to the PCB. Just in case it gets a bit warmer.

This is by the way, what I'm also talking about. I made a video, where I answered the most common questions, which came up in the discussion, as Phil published the video. But people bring all the suggestions again and again. Obviously nobody is really watching the second part 😁

To be honest, I haven't even watched the video yet. I'll do so soon. 😅
No offense, also. The board isn't a bad idea, at all. Especially as an alternative for inexperienced users with new PSUs.
The good old 78/79 series is more trustworthy than using some questionable adapter from China, also.

PS: .. But please, you could at least swallow your pride and add that diode and add a spot for a fuse holder (can be shorted if user doesn't bother to install one) .. 🙄
For the sake of professionalism, at least.
Keep in mind that this no kitchen project only, people from the east will likely clone it along with their cheap parts soon and start selling it.
Power supplies should never trade safety for simplicity/cost effectiveness. At least not in my humble opinion.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 32 of 39, by weedeewee

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scorp wrote on 2021-03-13, 14:20:

Well, you don't need them in the most cases, but regarding datasheet, you should still add them. I heard, that the in/out voltage could otherwise resonate against each other, which will lead to a very fast overload on the regulator. I didn't see such behavior yet myself, but some experienced guys told, they did. And it must be a bad thing, if it get's there, since the thing can even explode 😀

While youtube doesn't like exploding things, a lot of their viewers really do like it 😁

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !

Reply 33 of 39, by scorp

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-13, 14:20:
To be honest, I haven't even watched the video yet. I'll do so soon. 😅 No offense, also. The board isn't a bad idea, at all. Esp […]
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scorp wrote on 2021-03-13, 14:04:
Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-13, 13:45:

Also, some cons of this design that come to mind:

Please don't mix 7805 and 7905. Although both are voltage regulators, they are used for different things. The 7805 is usually used to power something, that's why you could need all the other things you mentioned. The negative 5V and so 7905 is only used for reference in amplifiers and mixers. There is almost no current flowing. The circuit, which we used is actually a 1 to 1 implementation of the suggested solution from the datasheet. There is no need to over engineer it in some way. Also the heat sink is not required, since the regulator get barely warm in a usual case. Only if you want to plug multiple sound cards, which all need -5V, than you could think about screwing the IC to the PCB. Just in case it gets a bit warmer.

This is by the way, what I'm also talking about. I made a video, where I answered the most common questions, which came up in the discussion, as Phil published the video. But people bring all the suggestions again and again. Obviously nobody is really watching the second part 😁

To be honest, I haven't even watched the video yet. I'll do so soon. 😅
No offense, also. The board isn't a bad idea, at all. Especially as an alternative for inexperienced users with new PSUs.
The good old 78/79 series is more trustworthy than using some questionable adapter from China, also.

PS: .. But please, you could at least swallow your pride and add that diode and add a spot for a fuse holder (can be shorted if user doesn't bother to install one) .. 🙄
For the sake of professionalism, at least.
Keep in mind that this no kitchen project only, people from the east will likely clone it along with their cheap parts soon and start selling it.
Power supplies should never trade safety for simplicity/cost effectiveness. At least not in my humble opinion.

Hehe, this is why it is open source in the first place. Doesn't have to do anything with the pride, we just took the datasheet and implemented the suggested circuit. It is actually a "kitchen project", it's just an idea which everybody is asked to improve in any way needed. We already got so many suggestions, like even to integrate molex power connectors and provide 5V from the socket 😀 But I'm not going to sell it, I made 5 of them for my self (because you can't order less than 5 PCBs) and what the world is going to do with it is up to the world 😁

My Youtube channel Necroware

Reply 34 of 39, by scorp

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weedeewee wrote on 2021-03-13, 14:24:
scorp wrote on 2021-03-13, 14:20:

Well, you don't need them in the most cases, but regarding datasheet, you should still add them. I heard, that the in/out voltage could otherwise resonate against each other, which will lead to a very fast overload on the regulator. I didn't see such behavior yet myself, but some experienced guys told, they did. And it must be a bad thing, if it get's there, since the thing can even explode 😀

While youtube doesn't like exploding things, a lot of their viewers really do like it 😁

🤣 😀 True

My Youtube channel Necroware

Reply 35 of 39, by Jo22

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^Thanks for your understanding guy! 😎
I guess I'm a bit over-protective (pun intended) when it comes to power supplies.. 😅

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 36 of 39, by Arvid

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scorp wrote on 2021-03-13, 13:13:

I guess, many people see it like you do and though, this project attracted a lot of people, if you look at the counters and the discussions on Phils channel. And yes, I also don't see any system behind subscriptions. Some videos seem to attract people and some not. I made many different kinds, like restoration, PC rebuilding, soldering or creating a useful things, like the MCE-Adapter. Unfortunately, I still can't tell what people like the most. For me, the MCE-Adapter was one of the most exciting projects, but if you look at the numbers, people found it quite boring. What people seem to like is though is making some kind of semi old hardware useful again, but I'm pretty sure, that this viewers are not from the retro community, but sadly forced to watch such stuff out of economical reasons. I mean, not everybody in the world can afford a half way new PC, but there are plenty of used parts out there, which can be used to build something useful.... Despite, that I wish such people all the best, this is not the primer aim of my channel.... If I'd be after the clicks, I probably would do something like that, I guess....

I first came across your channel when looking for information on using XT-IDE since I had a 286 Olivetti that needed a new hard drive and the BIOS only accepted a limited set of drives.
Your video series on XT-IDE was extremely informative and very to the point, perfect for someone like me with no experince in burning ROM chips and little knowledge of memory space addresses.
I subscribed after watching these videos and find a lot of your other content interesting as well 😀

Reply 37 of 39, by scorp

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Arvid wrote on 2021-03-13, 18:12:
I first came across your channel when looking for information on using XT-IDE since I had a 286 Olivetti that needed a new hard […]
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scorp wrote on 2021-03-13, 13:13:

I guess, many people see it like you do and though, this project attracted a lot of people, if you look at the counters and the discussions on Phils channel. And yes, I also don't see any system behind subscriptions. Some videos seem to attract people and some not. I made many different kinds, like restoration, PC rebuilding, soldering or creating a useful things, like the MCE-Adapter. Unfortunately, I still can't tell what people like the most. For me, the MCE-Adapter was one of the most exciting projects, but if you look at the numbers, people found it quite boring. What people seem to like is though is making some kind of semi old hardware useful again, but I'm pretty sure, that this viewers are not from the retro community, but sadly forced to watch such stuff out of economical reasons. I mean, not everybody in the world can afford a half way new PC, but there are plenty of used parts out there, which can be used to build something useful.... Despite, that I wish such people all the best, this is not the primer aim of my channel.... If I'd be after the clicks, I probably would do something like that, I guess....

I first came across your channel when looking for information on using XT-IDE since I had a 286 Olivetti that needed a new hard drive and the BIOS only accepted a limited set of drives.
Your video series on XT-IDE was extremely informative and very to the point, perfect for someone like me with no experince in burning ROM chips and little knowledge of memory space addresses.
I subscribed after watching these videos and find a lot of your other content interesting as well 😀

Well, thank you very much! Helping others in the retro community is my main reason doing this channel. The numbers are not that important, I'm just looking at them out of curiosity. I never planned to make money with Youtube anyway 😁

My Youtube channel Necroware

Reply 38 of 39, by perhenden

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-13, 13:45:

... add that diode and add a spot for a fuse holder (can be shorted if user doesn't bother to install one) .. 🙄

These are protective measures, I guess. And I do want to protect my old equipment. Which scenarios do they protect against? A fuse would protect against overcurrent, but is there reason to expect overcurrent on this modified -12v (-5v) line? Could a failure in the voltage regulator result in overcurrent?
The diode is to ensure voltage only flows in the intended direction?

I'm planning to build a simple in-line regulator using a 7950 and two capacitors, and wonder if there are some protective measures I should include.

EDIT: For those going down this route, be aware that the heat sink for some (all?) 7905 is connected to the voltage_in, and must be insulated from the PSU chassis and the rest of the PSU

Last edited by perhenden on 2021-03-22, 09:06. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 39 of 39, by wiretap

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Mouser cart for the Phil's Computer Lab Voltage Blaster PCB: https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/Project … ssID=ec981c3204

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