I think I would go for an SB16, with the PAS16 for OPL and MPU401 all you need is SB16 compatibility. The SB32 will give you that and the EMU8000 synth, so you'll be pretty much covered for any game.

SB emulation on PAS16 is hardly its best feature, so makes sense to go for a second card next to it.

As for which, what do you want to run on it? If you want late-era DOS stuff, then I'd second the SB32. Tbh I'd actually look at adding two cards, as SB32 is an SB16, so not perfect SBPro2 support and no WSS, plus buggy MIDI (just like the PAS16). With default tools that would be a non-starter (too many non-configurable resources conflicting), but with Unisound you could give it a try. I'd suggest the CS4237 Digimate or the ESS1869F, depending on whether you prefer ESFM or CSFM as third option (although realistically, even though you can set the AdLib address to three different values, almost no games support anything other than 0x388, so you get the PAS' real OPL3 in practice).

dionb wrote on 2021-03-10, 08:26:

plus buggy MIDI (just like the PAS16).

Ah I assumed the PAS16 doesn't have buggy midi. Well if all it's got going for it is a genuine OPL3, I'd go for the Aztech card (genuine OPL3 + bug-free midi + WSS) and maybe the SB32 as an extra.
Are there any/many games that support the PAS16 but don't offer WSS or SB16 for 16-bit audio?

When you say "emulation" what do you mean? The PAS16 has a dedicated SoundBlaster compatible chip on it (it should say Thunder on it). Now, I don't think the Thunder chip supports 16 bit audio, but I wouldn't call it emulation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Vision_Pro_AudioSpectrum

pan069 wrote on 2021-03-10, 09:14:

When you say "emulation" what do you mean? The PAS16 has a dedicated SoundBlaster compatible chip on it (it should say Thunder on it). Now, I don't think the Thunder chip supports 16 bit audio, but I wouldn't call it emulation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Vision_Pro_AudioSpectrum

Sorry, emulation is probably not exactly the correct term - but it is referred to exactly as such on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunder_Board

Emulates SB 1.0 and 1.5

Oetker wrote on 2021-03-10, 09:09:

[...]

Ah I assumed the PAS16 doesn't have buggy midi.

Unfortunately it does:
Re: PAS16 sounds distorted

Alas, if only that were true...

Due to an undersized FIFO buffer, the PAS16's MVD101D chipset chokes under moderate MIDI workloads, exhibiting dropped/hung notes to a degree that the card is rendered near-useless for MIDI intent, gaming or otherwise. Furthermore, unlike similar issues experienced with various SB16 models, this behavior isn't attributed to a sharing of interrupts and FIFO buffering for both MIDI and PCM playback, and therefore occurs irrespective of any other card activity (or lack thereof).

Well if all it's got going for it is a genuine OPL3, I'd go for the Aztech card (genuine OPL3 + bug-free midi + WSS) and maybe the SB32 as an extra.
Are there any/many games that support the PAS16 but don't offer WSS or SB16 for 16-bit audio?

Not many. I found my PAS16 to be quite an anticlimax. It's not like GUS, where games that actually support the hardware sound radically different, it's exactly the same sound as SB16, just with (usually) cleaner hardware. The only game I play where I can hear the difference is OMF2097, where PAS16 really sounds better than SB16 - but gets blown away by GUS of course as that is one of the best showcase games for the latter.

Actually the Aztech has been in this system before for a while to until I rebuild the system (dx2 to Cx5x86, different HDD, different nic, most ram, different case) and I did like it for some reason or another. Pretty clear sound and all the support I'd ever need.

I remember my IBM Aptiva does have this CS4237 onboard, but I haven't tested that one thoroughly. Just ran need for speed 2 and midtown madness on it 😜

The CS4237 Digimate and noname ESS1869F don't have opl3 chips. Do these have an equivalent inside the main chip?

waterbeesje wrote on 2021-03-10, 23:18:

The CS4237 Digimate and noname ESS1869F don't have opl3 chips. Do these have an equivalent inside the main chip?

Yes, but it doesn't sound exactly like a real Yamaha chip.

So then the Aztech would be a good choice as well, given its genuine opl3? Or does that one have problems with midi as well as the SB cards?

waterbeesje wrote on 2021-03-11, 19:03:

So then the Aztech would be a good choice as well, given its genuine opl3? Or does that one have problems with midi as well as the SB cards?

No it works fine in all regards, it just only supports WSS for 16-bit audio. That's why I suggested adding the SB32 and using that only for digital audio (and emu8000) and the Aztech for OPL and midi.

Thanks for all the advice 😀
Since this system is loosely based on 1995 hardware, I guess I'll take the Aztech AMD put it in 😀 that one had the 1995 date with on it.
The SB32 won't be part of the system, because I'm running out of usable ISA slots.
Both the Aztech and SB32 are full height and require a slot longer than a standard ISA slot.

0. CF adapter (not ISA slot on the board)
1. PAS16 (ISA16)
2. Empty, but the battery connector is on the way to put in any card (ISA16)
3. NIC (etherlink 509, ISA16)
4. Empty, but the com port wires only allows for a half height card (It SA)
5. I/o controller (vlb)
6. graphics adapter (Diamond Stealth SE 2MB, VLB)
7. Empty (VLB)

Slot 2-4 are not usable for ISA cards longer than the slot itself: the CPU is in the way.

That leaves only slot 7 for another sound card. Rendering it the third VLB slot is not a big deal, I'm not planning on using a dedicated VLB SCSI card. That's taken care of by the PAS 😜

Sorry for the noob question, but I'm just wondering about this. What happens if you have two sound cards both with an OPL3 chip installed? E.g. A Pro Audio Spectrum 16 (disable the sound blaster on driver load) and an actual sound blaster 16 with true OPL3. The PAS16 also has an OPL3. I guess the ISA bus will address both chips? So, if you Line Out from the PAS to the Line In of the SB and then to speakers, does that messes with FM sound?

Edit: Hmmm. Maybe on one of the cards the FM sound can be turned down in the software mixer? 🤔

pan069 wrote on 2021-03-13, 09:20:

Sorry for the noob question, but I'm just wondering about this. What happens if you have two sound cards both with an OPL3 chip installed? E.g. A Pro Audio Spectrum 16 (disable the sound blaster on driver load) and an actual sound blaster 16 with true OPL3. The PAS16 also has an OPL3. I guess the ISA bus will address both chips? So, if you Line Out from the PAS to the Line In of the SB and then to speakers, does that messes with FM sound?

Edit: Hmmm. Maybe on one of the cards the FM sound can be turned down in the software mixer? 🤔

You're correct, both cards would produce sound, so you would need to turn one down, not init its FM if possible, or change the FM port, if possible.

And there's a litthe step backward.
When I put in the Aztech card, the Aztech and PAS are arguing. They both won't do what they are supposed to do.
I guess I'm gonna take the ESS route 😀

Re: Media vision Pro audio spectrum 16 compatibility List

Beware, the PAS16 uses port 388h as its control port and for OPL3.
This works fine, because PAS16 has circuitry that takes care of this.
If you install, say, a SB16 and doesn't disable its OPL3, you'll hear some annoying noice coming out of it.
A workaround is to run SB16's DIAGNOSE.EXE run the FM test.
The PnP SB16s/AWEs have that option (config without FM) in that CTCU/CTCM thing, I recall.
Not sure about the originals (CT1740). In their case, muting FM via mixer might be an option, too.
The normal YM262 chips are read-only, I think.

OPL2/3 are not read only, there's a status port that is used for chip detection purposes (timer is set to run and let to expire and then checked if it expires at expected time).

I would try a Sound Blaster ISA card with EMU8000
AWE32
AWE64

Tiido wrote on 2021-03-17, 19:05:

OPL2/3 are not read only, there's a status port that is used for chip detection purposes (timer is set to run and let to expire and then checked if it expires at expected time).

My apologies, I meant to say write-only, of couse! Silly me! 😅
They can sing together, normally.

What I was referring to was this one (YMF289) :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YMF262#Yamaha_YMF289

"The registers can be read or written by the host CPU, whereas on the YMF262 they are write-only."

At worst, having multiple OPL3 running may mess up the detection thing in rare cases.

Also, I remember, the PAS16 series was designed for the possibility of multiple cards in a single PC, hence that ID jumper thing.

YMF289 has register readback to facilitate hibernation and standby on laptop situations, but this has nothing to do with status register which is readable on every model.

The only saving grace with muliple cards having a chip that responds on Adlib ports is that they all output same data at nearly the same time (if everyone has real OPL2 or real OPL3 or CQM or ESFM etc.), so the bus contention that happens is very mild, only at edges of the cycles. Mixed chips environment will have more siginficant timing differences probably and things are more unhealthy for the system.

I've been reading with lots of interest... So actually it would be best to put in a sound blaster compatible with real OPL3? So the timings won't mess with eachother? Sound viable to me :p

As they Aztech won't do... The next best thing seems the Soundblaster vibra 2260 😀
(The SB32 doesn't have two OPL3)