VOGONS


First post, by BraveToaster

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Hi,

a couple of months ago, I've reactivated my old Pentium 233 MMX, got myself a 17" CRT again and put together a retro corner in my house. 😀
After a little while, I've started exploring better options for the ISA soundcard. I started out with a TerraTec Base1 (AD1816 chipset) and a TerraTec Mini Wave System daughterboard - that's the original hardware I still have from when that stuff (and the computer) was new.
It's not a terrible combination, the Base1 offers good SB Pro compatibility, is very quiet, and features a fully functioning MPU401 UART interface that works well with SoftMPU, but the main drawback is a pretty... liberal interpretation of OPL3.

So I started out naively looking for an SB16 and got myself a CT2950 on eBay - I didn't know anything about the various options at the time and figured that the Creative cards are the gold standard of the time. Well... it is not noisy, and it has a PC speaker input (which I really like) - but the MPU401 interface has "all the bugs" and OPL3 is from a CQM chip, which is okay, but certainly not original.
Using MIDI with the wavetable card is not fun because of those bugs. Other than those caveats, the card worked great.

My next step was using an external laptop for MIDI emulation (MUNT for MT-32 and VirtualMidiSynth for GM) via Gameport -> adapter -> Roland UM-ONE MIDI USB interface. That works great, but with the SB16, that was not working out at all. The hanging notes bugs were obvious and sometimes the applications even crashed. Back with the TerraTec Base1, it works very well.

The next step was getting a Yamaha YMF719E-based card (A-TREND Harmony 3DS719), thinking that could be close to the optimum, since it has original OPL3, and is known to be very SB Pro compatible and has no MIDI bugs. I was also considering pairing it with the SB16, as in this thread.
The reality, at least in my configuration, was different. I didn't try it our for very long, but I got all kinds of weird behavior in some games, like sound not getting played properly, and MIDI playback with some flaws (although not as terrible as with the SB16). So I didn't consider this a great option overall and went back to the Base1.

The last option I would have directly is that a friend offered his old SB16 clone, an ALS100 card (no plus). It does feature an LS262 chip (proper OPL3) and at least from back in the day, he doesn't remember having any MIDI issues - he has also paired it with a wavetable card. Reviews I read online aren't great either though. Picture is attached.

So - I'm open for ideas. What would you suggest? What are some things I'm not considering yet?
I love the external MIDI solution, that just gives the old games a whole new fantastic feel, so that bit is non-negotiable. 😁
The SB16 together with PCMIDI (once that's available again) would be an option, but at a fairly steep price and still with the OPL3-caveat. Does anyone have experience with the ALS100, would that be an overall improvement over the Base1?

Thanks!

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Reply 2 of 16, by Joseph_Joestar

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The ALS100 is basically a bugfree SB16 clone. It has no MIDI issues. Also, most models have a 1:1 OPL3 copy on-board which sounds identical to the real thing.

However, many of those cards have a lot of self-noise. It becomes very noticeable when you try to record gameplay audio.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 3 of 16, by Rawit

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My ALS007 works in most things, but stereo (including the mixer) is reversed. No MIDI issues with the Waveblaster (Yucucatan FX), I've tested the scenario's where the original SB16 line has issues.

YouTube

Reply 4 of 16, by maxtherabbit

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Rawit wrote on 2021-03-21, 14:33:

My ALS007 works in most things, but stereo (including the mixer) is reversed. No MIDI issues with the Waveblaster (Yucucatan FX), I've tested the scenario's where the original SB16 line has issues.

what do you use for checking for reversed stereo on PCM and FM?

Reply 5 of 16, by cyclone3d

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Can you disable the fm on the terratec card? If so, you might want to take a look at a Resound OPL3 or Resound OPL3 II card.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 6 of 16, by Rawit

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maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-03-21, 15:13:

what do you use for checking for reversed stereo on PCM and FM?

Things like Doom, Quake, Duke Nukem 3d, Epic Pinball and Inertia Player for PCM. For FM Adlib Tracker. Even the mixer on my card is reversed, muting left in software mutes my right speaker.

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Reply 7 of 16, by BraveToaster

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-03-21, 15:29:

Can you disable the fm on the terratec card? If so, you might want to take a look at a Resound OPL3 or Resound OPL3 II card.

Unfortunately, disabling FM is not an option that the card's software offers. It's always at 388h, the PnP utility does not offer another option.

Rawit wrote on 2021-03-21, 16:49:

Things like Doom, Quake, Duke Nukem 3d, Epic Pinball and Inertia Player for PCM. For FM Adlib Tracker. Even the mixer on my card is reversed, muting left in software mutes my right speaker.

If everything is reversed, why don't you just swap the left and right with a Cinch cable?
BTW, I've noticed that I have to swap the stereo channels in Descent with the Base1, but not in TIE Fighter (Collector's CD). Both games in SB Pro mode, of course. So it doesn't seem to be consistent across all games.

Reply 10 of 16, by mothergoose729

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Are you willing to consider ESS? There are great, affordable, and readily available cards. It isn't true OPL3 but it is probably the best clone chip out there.

https://www.philscomputerlab.com/ess-audiodrive-es1868.html

You can get a lot of intelligent mode games working with softMPU without needing the PCMIDI card.

It isn't cheap, and getting one is pretty hard, but the orpheus is an awesome community project that attempts to be an all-in-one solution.

Orpheus Soundcard: a new DOS soundcard with SPDIF/OPL3/MPU support

Reply 11 of 16, by mkarcher

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BraveToaster wrote on 2021-03-21, 13:20:

So - I'm open for ideas. What would you suggest? What are some things I'm not considering yet?

We recently had a thread about a software-only solution to the hanging note bug on Sound Blaster 16 cards, see Re: FixMPU: Software solution for "hanging note bug" on SB16 with DSP >v4.06 <v4.16.

Reply 13 of 16, by maxtherabbit

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Rawit wrote on 2021-03-26, 09:10:
maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-03-25, 19:39:

Stereo channels on my ALS007 based card match the flippers in epic pinball

Do you have a picture of your card?

Not my pic, but it's this card
http://www.yjfy.com/images/oldhard/video/dt-0196h.jpg

Reply 15 of 16, by BraveToaster

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mkarcher wrote on 2021-03-25, 20:15:

We recently had a thread about a software-only solution to the hanging note bug on Sound Blaster 16 cards, see Re: FixMPU: Software solution for "hanging note bug" on SB16 with DSP >v4.06 <v4.16.

That's really cool, thanks for pointing that out!
However, since it only solves some of the MIDI issues my SB16 has, it still doesn't solve the issue for me.
I'll try the ALS100, and if that doesn't work out for whatever reason, I'll probably wait for PCMIDI to be available again.
The perfect solution really doesn't seem to exist, and the Base1 does its job rather well in most cases, really.

Reply 16 of 16, by BraveToaster

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After rather disheartening experiences with the YMF-719 card, I finally got my hands on that ALS100 card I've mentioned above. I'm actually very pleasantly surprised - this card seems to be the closest to the optimum that I can get right now:

  • The LS262 chip seems to be a very precise OPL3 clone, or at least I can't hear any differences to proper OPL3 recordings.
  • The MPU-401 (UART) interface via Gameport and Wavetable interface works flawlessly and I have no problems with SoftMPU in games that need Intelligent Mode.
  • Line-In (to feed back external MIDI) and CD-Audio also aren't making any trouble, and have proper volume levels in comparison to the rest.
  • SB16 and SBPro compatibility is great, I haven't seen any game yet with problems. Zone66 crashed with sound effects on the TerraTec Base1, but works just fine on this card for example.
  • The card initializes just fine with UNISOUND, without any issues that I can see. Mixer settings work great as well.
  • Windows drivers are fine - no problems so far.

The downsides are quite small:

  • The card is not entirely quiet, with headphones there's definitely more noise than on the Base1 or SB16 CT2950. However it's quiet enough that I can't hear it from the regular speaker setup (Behringer MS40) over the general fan noise of the old PC. It's not a particularly quiet PC, but not a particularly loud one either, so it's fine.
  • There's no PC speaker input, which I really liked on the CT2950 card.

So I think this is definitely a good card to look out for when searching for an ISA sound card for DOS games, particularly when the MPU401 interface matters.