dionb wrote on 2021-09-12, 22:54:

aitotat wrote on 2021-09-10, 04:40:

It has been a long road to find this combination but it is the best I've come up for my DX4 system:

[...]

Then there is another limitation as well. Most early General Midi games are hardcoded to port 330 and that is used by the Roland MPU401AT + McCake combo. So I have to use McCake for General Midi for some games. That is not a big problem since McCake is excellent for that as well but If you want the Roland GM/GS sounds then it is a problem. I should be able to fix it with software (port trapping) and I could also plug external Roland module to MPU401AT but I want this system to have everything internally.

Maybe you could put your wavetable module into an external MIDI enclosure (Chill or similar), then get a MIDI switcher/patchbay to choose which MIDI device gets its stuff from the MPU-401. WIth a real MPU-401, an MPU-105 would be the obvious (if hard to find) choice.

Oh damn so is the 104 the wrong choice then? , I've seen LGR use it with his midi tower and it seemed okay.
I guess I got the input to output mixed up then , dang.

AppleSauce wrote on 2021-09-12, 23:37:

dionb wrote on 2021-09-12, 22:54:

aitotat wrote on 2021-09-10, 04:40:

It has been a long road to find this combination but it is the best I've come up for my DX4 system:

[...]

Then there is another limitation as well. Most early General Midi games are hardcoded to port 330 and that is used by the Roland MPU401AT + McCake combo. So I have to use McCake for General Midi for some games. That is not a big problem since McCake is excellent for that as well but If you want the Roland GM/GS sounds then it is a problem. I should be able to fix it with software (port trapping) and I could also plug external Roland module to MPU401AT but I want this system to have everything internally.

Maybe you could put your wavetable module into an external MIDI enclosure (Chill or similar), then get a MIDI switcher/patchbay to choose which MIDI device gets its stuff from the MPU-401. WIth a real MPU-401, an MPU-105 would be the obvious (if hard to find) choice.

Oh damn so is the 104 the wrong choice then? , I've seen LGR use it with his midi tower and it seemed okay.
I guess I got the input to output mixed up then , dang.

You really don't need a special "MIDI output selector". Any simple switch box that has DIN-5 on it will work fine.

For that matter, you could use any switch box if you were willing to make cable converters.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-09-13, 00:18:

AppleSauce wrote on 2021-09-12, 23:37:

dionb wrote on 2021-09-12, 22:54:

Maybe you could put your wavetable module into an external MIDI enclosure (Chill or similar), then get a MIDI switcher/patchbay to choose which MIDI device gets its stuff from the MPU-401. WIth a real MPU-401, an MPU-105 would be the obvious (if hard to find) choice.

Oh damn so is the 104 the wrong choice then? , I've seen LGR use it with his midi tower and it seemed okay.
I guess I got the input to output mixed up then , dang.

You really don't need a special "MIDI output selector". Any simple switch box that has DIN-5 on it will work fine.

For that matter, you could use any switch box if you were willing to make cable converters.

Well that's good news then.

It's a bit of a thread derail, but I just got curious about the MPU-104 and MPU-105. The 104 is an input switcher (so in this context, you might have 5 retro PCs connected to one SC-55). The 105 is an output switcher (so, one retro PC connected to multiple MIDI modules). You can see how the 105 would be the one you'd need here. Yet, in LGR's MIDI Mountain vid he is clearly using the 104 as an output switcher. Which suggests that they're both the same thing internally, just labelled and marketed differently.

https://www.mesonline.com/keyboards/roland_mpu104-used.html
https://www.mesonline.com/keyboards/roland_mpu105-used.html

As cyclone3d says, you don't need either of these. (I just use a Quadra Thru to send MIDI to everything at once). But if you have one, neat.

Idk about "ultimate" but my slot 1 board has...

Orpheus with Hard MPU - OPL3 sound blaster pro 2 support, WSS 2.0 support (mostly) external midi via MUNT and Roland Sound Canvas VA
Aureal Vortex 2 for A3D 2.0 stuff
Audigy 2 ZS for EAX and basically anything else windows

I have been tempted to add a sound blaster 64 value card for SB 16 compatibility which would make it basically perfect IMO, but I spent so much time setting up everything I am afraid to throw a wrench into it.

Pierre32 wrote on 2021-09-13, 01:43:

It's a bit of a thread derail, but I just got curious about the MPU-104 and MPU-105. The 104 is an input switcher (so in this co […]
Show full quote

It's a bit of a thread derail, but I just got curious about the MPU-104 and MPU-105. The 104 is an input switcher (so in this context, you might have 5 retro PCs connected to one SC-55). The 105 is an output switcher (so, one retro PC connected to multiple MIDI modules). You can see how the 105 would be the one you'd need here. Yet, in LGR's MIDI Mountain vid he is clearly using the 104 as an output switcher. Which suggests that they're both the same thing internally, just labelled and marketed differently.

https://www.mesonline.com/keyboards/roland_mpu104-used.html
https://www.mesonline.com/keyboards/roland_mpu105-used.html

As cyclone3d says, you don't need either of these. (I just use a Quadra Thru to send MIDI to everything at once). But if you have one, neat.

Yeah gonna derail a bit as well(sorry) but interestingly , while my 104 is a plain bare circuit board with a diode and resistor and some traces
the 105 seems more involved
and according to the only picture I could find of it online opened up has some glue logic chips .
Not sure why though.

104 PCB

105 PCB

AppleSauce wrote on 2021-09-13, 06:17:

Yeah gonna derail a bit as well(sorry) but interestingly , while my 104 is a plain bare circuit board with a diode and resistor […]
Show full quote

Pierre32 wrote on 2021-09-13, 01:43:

It's a bit of a thread derail, but I just got curious about the MPU-104 and MPU-105. The 104 is an input switcher (so in this co […]
Show full quote

It's a bit of a thread derail, but I just got curious about the MPU-104 and MPU-105. The 104 is an input switcher (so in this context, you might have 5 retro PCs connected to one SC-55). The 105 is an output switcher (so, one retro PC connected to multiple MIDI modules). You can see how the 105 would be the one you'd need here. Yet, in LGR's MIDI Mountain vid he is clearly using the 104 as an output switcher. Which suggests that they're both the same thing internally, just labelled and marketed differently.

https://www.mesonline.com/keyboards/roland_mpu104-used.html
https://www.mesonline.com/keyboards/roland_mpu105-used.html

As cyclone3d says, you don't need either of these. (I just use a Quadra Thru to send MIDI to everything at once). But if you have one, neat.

Yeah gonna derail a bit as well(sorry) but interestingly , while my 104 is a plain bare circuit board with a diode and resistor and some traces
the 105 seems more involved
and according to the only picture I could find of it online opened up has some glue logic chips .
Not sure why though.

104 PCB
20210603_1459322.jpg

105 PCB
i38011xxrry41.jpg

Frustrating lack of better pics than that online. Those ICs on the 105 look like pretty basic, but could be lots of things (something from 74-series?).

On a side note, I have a Roland A-880 imported from Japan - and faced with a 110V PSU I instead modded it to work off USB (hooked up to 5V line coming out of VRM). Works like a charm. Probably also possible with these smaller, simpler units.

dionb wrote on 2021-09-13, 10:01:

AppleSauce wrote on 2021-09-13, 06:17:

Yeah gonna derail a bit as well(sorry) but interestingly , while my 104 is a plain bare circuit board with a diode and resistor […]
Show full quote

Pierre32 wrote on 2021-09-13, 01:43:

It's a bit of a thread derail, but I just got curious about the MPU-104 and MPU-105. The 104 is an input switcher (so in this co […]
Show full quote

It's a bit of a thread derail, but I just got curious about the MPU-104 and MPU-105. The 104 is an input switcher (so in this context, you might have 5 retro PCs connected to one SC-55). The 105 is an output switcher (so, one retro PC connected to multiple MIDI modules). You can see how the 105 would be the one you'd need here. Yet, in LGR's MIDI Mountain vid he is clearly using the 104 as an output switcher. Which suggests that they're both the same thing internally, just labelled and marketed differently.

https://www.mesonline.com/keyboards/roland_mpu104-used.html
https://www.mesonline.com/keyboards/roland_mpu105-used.html

As cyclone3d says, you don't need either of these. (I just use a Quadra Thru to send MIDI to everything at once). But if you have one, neat.

Yeah gonna derail a bit as well(sorry) but interestingly , while my 104 is a plain bare circuit board with a diode and resistor and some traces
the 105 seems more involved
and according to the only picture I could find of it online opened up has some glue logic chips .
Not sure why though.

104 PCB
20210603_1459322.jpg

105 PCB
i38011xxrry41.jpg

Frustrating lack of better pics than that online. Those ICs on the 105 look like pretty basic, but could be lots of things (something from 74-series?).

On a side note, I have a Roland A-880 imported from Japan - and faced with a 110V PSU I instead modded it to work off USB (hooked up to 5V line coming out of VRM). Works like a charm. Probably also possible with these smaller, simpler units.

Ah that sucks , I would have thought you could change the voltage like on a SC-88s transformer.
Good solution though.

As for the chips , they appear to be HD74LS03P chips?
Quadruple 2-input Positive AND Gates (with Open Collector Outputs)?

I have a 104 + 105, they are not the same internally. the 104 is even passive, no power required, the 105 requires power.
i mothballed both of mine to use a Roland A-880 instead.

AppleSauce wrote on 2021-09-13, 11:51:

[...]

Ah that sucks , I would have thought you could change the voltage like on a SC-88s transformer.

Nope, internal transformer. As usual perfectly documented by Roland with spare part numbers given, but the "rest of world" coil needed is of course nowhere to be found. All looked pretty primitive/inefficient too - huge coil, then some diodes to do AC-DC followed by some caps to smooth out their output. Pretty sure my Ikea power socket with USB power is more efficient 😉

Good solution though.

Tnx.

System: PIII 933 Slot 1 Win98 + DOS 7.1 (with L1 cache on/off for 386 level speed sensitive games)
Main DOS: SB32 CT3670 for SB/SB16/AWE games (Adlib/Creative FM disabled)
Main Win98: Yamaha YMF744 PCI for Win98 with basic EAX/A3D support. In DOS only FM enabled for authentic Yamaha OPL3

External modules: Yamaha MU80 for GM and DIY MT32-PI unit for MT32

I have signed up in spring for Orpheus. Hoping to get it by Christmas 😀
I will then have challenge how to cover SB16 and A3D in the same time. I have SB16 (CT2770), SB32, AWE64, SBLive, Audigy 2CZ, Audican 32, ES1868F, YMF719E, Vortex2. I'd like keep 2 card setup. Probably not possible in order t cover everything.

vutt wrote on 2021-09-19, 16:19:

I will then have challenge how to cover SB16 and A3D in the same time.

Your YMF744 can handle A3D 1.0 through Sensaura.

It works quite well, especially in games based on the Unreal engine.

BloodyCactus wrote on 2021-09-13, 12:41:

I have a 104 + 105, they are not the same internally. the 104 is even passive, no power required, the 105 requires power.
i mothballed both of mine to use a Roland A-880 instead.

The 105 is likely buffering each output so the current draw on the source device isn't out of spec.