VOGONS


Reply 40 of 56, by Pickle

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so i bought this card and like to give my findings so far.
there are 2 apps in that driver sf32av and wflite, both seems to work. The wflite has an option to change the mpu address but i dont think it will have any effect since it seems the vibra chip can only do 330. I couldnt get diagnose to accept 300. Maybe a conflict. The app takes about 37k in memory. Couldnt get it to load high.
Ive tried i on 2 machines. A 486 DX2 and a Socket 7 with K6-500. On the 486 I cant get either wavefront tsr to detect the card right. It picks up that its at 330, but then timeout with an error.
unisound does detect the card as a sb16.
It works fine on the socket 7, but not all games are working with the tsr.

Ive also toned out the bottom jumpers. They select dma and irq's.

1	16	8 bit	Daq 3
2 6 8 bit Daq 2
3 9 16 bit Daq 0

4 15 8 bit Not 3
5 26 8 bit Not 2
6 8 16 bit Not 0

7 5 16 bit Irq 12
8 4 16 bit Irq 11
9 25 16 bit Irq 3

10 5 16 bit Irq 12
11 3 16 bit Irq 10
12 21 8 bit Irq 7
13 4 8 bit Irq 8

14 14 16 bit not daq 7
15 12 16 bit not daq 6
16 15 8 bit not daq 3

17 15 16 bit Daq 7
18 13 16 bit Daq 6
19 16 8 bit Daq 3

There are jumpers in the middle towards the ics side (w1 and W14). The top one connects to the vibra chip. 9 pins up from the lower left corner. Couldnt figure out what it was. The other jumper connects the chip below (i think buffer) which i think connects to irqs. So maybe this disables the ics.

I also tried running the WFB loader and it didnt detect the card. But i also dont have the simm sockets so not sure what effect that would have.

Also seems like the waveblaster disables when a wavetable is connected. Although when i used my dreamblater s2 it really would stutter.

It does sound good when it runs. Im disappointed it isnt running in the 486 which is where id prefer it. I normally run a awe64 in the socket 7.

Reply 41 of 56, by vmunix

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mkarcher wrote on 2022-04-14, 22:59:
AWE32 is mainly an EMU8000 synthesizer (and chorus/reverb effect) chip exposed to direct control by the host processor. As your […]
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Pickle wrote on 2022-04-14, 22:19:

So what can you run from the sim memory slots? Im just confused is the memory for GUS or for AWE32 functions?

AWE32 is mainly an EMU8000 synthesizer (and chorus/reverb effect) chip exposed to direct control by the host processor. As your "strange soundcard" (as the title says) has an ICS wavetable synthesizer, and not an EMU8000 synthesizer, it doesn't have any AWE32 function. The name resembling the SB AWE32 or SB 32 is pure marketing and doesn't mean any compatibility with those cards (SB32 is just a cost-reduced version of the SB AWE32). So the extra SIMM memory is definitely for the ICS synthesizer, which ships with GUS-like samples.

The actual GUS had a synthesizer chip (the Gravis GF1) which was directly controlled by the host: The host tells the chip what samples to play at what speed and what volume to make some sound. The mapping from MIDI events to GF1 synthesizer settings is performed on the main CPU by a GUS-specific driver, possibly as part of MEGA-EM or SBOS, which are software MIDI interpreters that receive MIDI data sent to the MPU401 port address and make sample playback instructions from interpreting the MIDI data and send thend the playback settings to the GF1. This is a similar concept to the AWE32, which also doesn't understand MIDI itself, but "only" contains a host-controlled sample playback engine. On the other hand, your ICS wavetable based soundcard has a 68000 processor on the sound card that interprets MIDI data and programs the synthesize to play back the requested samples at the requested frequency and volume. The SIMM memory is to make extra memory available to that integrated wavetable synthesizer, which is neither an AWE32 nor a GUS/GF1.

EDIT: stroked out second paragraph, as that card doesn't have a 68000 processor. I don't know how MIDI works on that card.

Works exactly like the TBS-2000 also known as Tropez Lite or Tropez 32, it has exact the same chips, the 68k is present on those Turtle beach with SampleStore (Rio, Tropez, Maui, Tropez+) , from the same era the TBS-2000 had a hardware Wavetable but could not load samples other than the presets, and the Montecarlo had no hardware wavetable at all.

Trailing edge computing.

Reply 42 of 56, by vmunix

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Pickle wrote on 2022-04-14, 22:19:

So what can you run from the sim memory slots? Im just confused is the memory for GUS or for AWE32 functions?
Seems like it would be 2 mb for GUS soundbanks?

Definitely they are not to load samples in .wav form as in other WaveFront synts, you should look where the simm slot traces go, my bet these are for some kind of proprietary ROM simms to be used instead of the onboard rom. But it's just a guess.

Trailing edge computing.

Reply 43 of 56, by Pickle

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vmunix wrote on 2022-05-04, 14:37:
Pickle wrote on 2022-04-14, 22:19:

So what can you run from the sim memory slots? Im just confused is the memory for GUS or for AWE32 functions?
Seems like it would be 2 mb for GUS soundbanks?

Definitely they are not to load samples in .wav form as in other WaveFront synts, you should look where the simm slot traces go, my bet these are for some kind of proprietary ROM simms to be used instead of the onboard rom. But it's just a guess.

based on the datasheet for the ICS and and turtle beach driver and the custom loader linked earlier im pretty well convinced its to load custom banks in the WFB format.

did some playing around with the jumpers still couldnt get it to work on my 486. Im feeling like there some kind of resource conflict but really sure what.
But it does work on my 386. I was able to get it to play the roland midi for dtrack. I also used the mt32 option for the tsr. I dont think it really sound that great (at least compared to what i think i remember the munt emu sounding like). Im guessing it does some rough instrument mapping.
I didnt get wing commander 1 to work yet. It doesnt seem to work with softmpu (although it detects the SB MPU and IRQ).

Reply 44 of 56, by pc-sound-legacy

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Pickle wrote on 2022-04-27, 14:59:

@pc-sound-legacy in one of the previous links was a tool to upload WFB files to the ram. Have you happen to have tried anything in regards to the memory simms?
Seems it should support 8mb, but reading through the other thread seems there was a struggle to convert soundfonts to the WFB format. I did find some WFB in some of the Turtle beach drivers. So i wonder if they can be loaded on this card.

Can you link the WFBs or the driver that includes them? Than I can give it a try. For now I have not populated the SIMM slots. Hopefully the WfBs are just 2MB because I only have the popular 1MB SIMM modules.

Last edited by pc-sound-legacy on 2022-05-23, 22:23. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 45 of 56, by pc-sound-legacy

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Kahenraz wrote on 2022-04-27, 20:04:

Can you make a recording of the Duke Nukem 3D theme and, if possible, the human1 track from Warcraft 2? These and the E1M1 track from Doom are my go-to comparisons when it comes to FM and wavetable synthesis.

The samples on this card sound pretty good on the tracks that I'm unfamiliar with. I'm not pleased at all with how Doom E1M1 sounds, so now I'm especially curious how Duke 3D and Warcraft 2 will fare.

Yes, I can do that- I will post here if it's released.

Reply 46 of 56, by Pickle

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Here are the banks that i could find. I was going to try the GM_MAUI.WFB.
Im still also trying tone out some of the pins to see where they go to on the ICS chip. That with the datasheet might help explain some of the settings.
It would be awesome to see if you get the loader linked earlier to work with some of these then i might try to putting a simm bracket on mine.

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Reply 47 of 56, by vmunix

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For those interested user adi has made available a collection of turtle beach related software, that I uploaded to his FTP, sounds, samples and banks for those Turtle Beach that have SampleStore technology.
I strongly recommend downloading and browse them in detail. 2 of the 3 files are .iso of actual physical media I own and are extremely hard to find. Those were sold separately at retailers.
http://oldware.adiweb.pl/sound/tbs/

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Reply 48 of 56, by keropi

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vmunix wrote on 2022-05-24, 06:54:

For those interested user adi has made available a collection of turtle beach related software, that I uploaded to his FTP, sounds, samples and banks for those Turtle Beach that have SampleStore technology.
I strongly recommend downloading and browse them in detail. 2 of the 3 files are .iso of actual physical media I own and are extremely hard to find. Those were sold separately at retailers.
http://oldware.adiweb.pl/sound/tbs/

thanks for the link
I recently got a MAUI that naturally came as a bare card
I wonder about it's wavetable header, I read that later cards got it removed because there were some pinout changes from Creative to waveblaster header - maybe it's possible to do some small patches and get it going?

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , Orpheus , Action Rewind , Megacard and MK8330 soundcard website

Reply 49 of 56, by vmunix

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keropi wrote on 2022-05-24, 07:06:
thanks for the link I recently got a MAUI that naturally came as a bare card I wonder about it's wavetable header, I read that […]
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vmunix wrote on 2022-05-24, 06:54:

For those interested user adi has made available a collection of turtle beach related software, that I uploaded to his FTP, sounds, samples and banks for those Turtle Beach that have SampleStore technology.
I strongly recommend downloading and browse them in detail. 2 of the 3 files are .iso of actual physical media I own and are extremely hard to find. Those were sold separately at retailers.
http://oldware.adiweb.pl/sound/tbs/

thanks for the link
I recently got a MAUI that naturally came as a bare card
I wonder about it's wavetable header, I read that later cards got it removed because there were some pinout changes from Creative to waveblaster header - maybe it's possible to do some small patches and get it going?

The waveblaster header would be usefull for a very special scenario.
Suppose you don't have the db9 connector with the 3 MIDI DIN female cables, and you do have a DB15 midi cable so you want to control de MAUI Synth from an external keyboard through your soundcard with doesn't support software MPU-401.

In all other cases the waveblaster conector is useless. MAUI is a sound card which only has MIDI , IRQ 9 and port 330 or so and you are good to go for DOS and Windows.

this cable.

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Reply 51 of 56, by vmunix

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keropi wrote on 2022-05-24, 10:32:

thanks for the info, I did not realize there is no midi-out on the MAUI

There is, though the cable is non standard, check the manual there's a schematic to DIY.

Trailing edge computing.

Reply 53 of 56, by Kahenraz

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This wavetable is... interesting. It's not bad, but it is very different. If I try to ignore my bias is what I think things should sound like, it's actually pretty good.

I would still really like to hear a recording of the Duke3D intro, please.

Reply 54 of 56, by vmunix

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Kahenraz wrote on 2022-05-25, 01:48:

This wavetable is... interesting. It's not bad, but it is very different. If I try to ignore my bias is what I think things should sound like, it's actually pretty good.

I would still really like to hear a recording of the Duke3D intro, please.

You should consider what the redbook audio of Warcraft 2 and AOE sounds like and compare to the midi recording you should hear how good it actually is.

I really don't get why most people use Doom or DukeNukem as a "basis" of midi benchmark, they are hardly good compositions, they are extremely tiny in terms of the amount and variety of instruments employed, of the 128 instruments (plus drums) general MIDI has, those games use 5 or 6 at best with 6 or 7 voices out of the 32 or 64 generaly available. I just don't get it.
/rant end.

@pc-sound-legacy very nice selection of midi files. Did you use some kind of reverb or post processed the audio? it doesn't sounds as dry as I remember the TBS-2000 which should be the same, unless the vibra-16 chipset is adding that before the mixer.

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Reply 55 of 56, by Tiido

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Those two games everyone know (including me) while some other stuff such as Warcraft I am completely unfamiliar with as the game series itself is not of any kind of interest to me.

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 56 of 56, by kitten.may.cry

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Tiido wrote on 2022-05-25, 08:47:

Those two games everyone know (including me) while some other stuff such as Warcraft I am completely unfamiliar with as the game series itself is not of any kind of interest to me.

He needs some kind of midi track, that is unique to his channel. Some do that, cue DankPods.