Its real.

Why do you think it might be a clone?

Looks genuine. Are you worried it might be a fake?

kolderman wrote on 2022-06-29, 23:51:

Its real.

Why do you think it might be a clone?

Found out there are many different adlib cards whilst slowly rebuilding childhood 286. Figured it might be the same as the Commodore 64 sound chips, they all sound slightly different. Not much information on the 'net about whether clones have the same sound, whether it matters, etc.

Also, probably less likely to use it in a PC if it's real.

you can see by the texture that this is a very old PCB, noone makes them like this anymore ^^

also why wouldn't you use it? that's what it's there for and the original Adlib sounds great and it's a great choice for a 286.
I consider myself lucky having gotten one from scrap, but mine doesn't look nearly as good condition 😁 it still works just fine anyways though.

imi wrote on 2022-06-30, 00:14:

you can see by the texture that this is a very old PCB, noone makes them like this anymore ^^

also why wouldn't you use it? that's what it's there for and the original Adlib sounds great and it's a great choice for a 286.
I consider myself lucky having gotten one from scrap, but mine doesn't look nearly as good condition 😁 it still works just fine anyways though.

Pretty cool to get one from scrap! Can't remember how much I paid, got it before the prices went up though.

Tend to not use originals if there's something that can do the same job - they stay in a cupboard. Maybe not logical, but got a Gold-16 - Ess1868 (OPL3 clone) ISA, if it sounds the same I mind using it less.

it will not sound the same, ESFM is not a direct clone of OPL and OPL3 already sounds slightly different, if anything you'd want an OPL2 card to have the same sound, and even then the parts on the card influence it too.
You can pretty much build identical clones for pretty cheap though.

I get a nostalgia kick purely out of using an "original" Adlib rather than any OPL2 card, just feels different... I think it'd be a shame to keep it locked away and there aren't really any parts to wear out really, at least not any more than it just sitting around.

I feel the same sometimes.

A first generation Sega Genesis/MD sounds different to a later model, for example.

Or let's take a CT17xx series SB16 (ex. CT1740).
It has the same fat, bassy sound not found on later models.

Listening to Descent 1 shareware intro doesn't sound right to me on later cards, despite them havin' OPL3s, too.

Or, the PAS16.. To me, no other OPL3 card plays Canyon.mid the same way this one does (I know, Voyetra synth is also part of it)..

Then there's the SB 2.0.. It has an OPL2, but a different amp than an AdLib card.
However, some games simply need the SB 1.0/1.5/2 because of DAC/FM balance.

Edit: By the way, what's the difference between 1987 AdLib and 1990 AdLib?
Are there any, sound wise? Different LM386 versions?

Speaking of, there are buggy LM386 clone amps from China.
Had seen one in a kit for a Pixie CW transceiver once, it was defective or simply couldn't drive my headphones..
Replacying it by an original LM386 chip from a local seller fixed the problem.

Jo22 wrote on 2022-06-30, 01:12:

Or let's take a CT17xx series SB16 (ex. CT1740).
It has the same fat, bassy sound not found on later models.

ex. = excluding or example? ^^
because that's exactly the reason why I use a CT1740 in my 386, it has that fat bassy sound.
I tried multiple other cards, many with super clean output, but the noisy CT1740 just sounds... delicious.

You're not going to damage it by using it, and even if it did stop working, it'd be worth probably almost as much money still.

Use it. It's period correct for your 286 and does have a unique sound

Thanks all. Seems like the strong consensus is to enjoy it for what it is. Wish I had the box & manuals.

imi wrote on 2022-06-30, 01:30:

Jo22 wrote on 2022-06-30, 01:12:

Or let's take a CT17xx series SB16 (ex. CT1740).
It has the same fat, bassy sound not found on later models.

ex. = excluding or example? ^^

Example. 😁

@alienmannequin I second what the others say. This one looks old, not like a replica to me. 🙂
But even *if* it was: The LM386 amp -the heart of the audio stage- is a standard part, there are plenty available.
So it would be easily possible to install a socket and install a new-old-stock part, if needed.
And the OPL2 DAC should always be the same among OPL2 cards.

And, just in case you want to compare it to a 1:1 clone (or you really prefer your card on the shelf), you could build yourself this one instead:
https://github.com/schlae/adlib

Personally, I am also using all my retro gear - but I also don't consider myself a collector or museum curator 😀

Before using it, I would first replace those tantalum caps.
They tend to short and go BOOM after so many years, and when they do... they usually damage/burn the PCB and/or nearby components.
Granted, I've never personally seen it happen on low current components like sound cards, but still... better safe than sorry (especially since this card is a rare collector's item that usually sells for $300+ ).

bloodem wrote on 2022-06-30, 07:01:

Before using it, I would first replace those tantalum caps.

I would most certainly not, sure, tantalum caps can go boom from one day to another, you could test the card for shorts if you want, but there's no reason to start soldering around on it if nothing's visibly damaged, and the chances from an exploding cap damaging the board are rather slim, if you start soldering around on the card you'll definitely have "damaged" it though.

imi wrote on 2022-06-30, 10:12:

I would most certainly not, sure, tantalum caps can go boom from one day to another, you could test the card for shorts if you want, but there's no reason to start soldering around on it if nothing's visibly damaged, and the chances from an exploding cap damaging the board are rather slim, if you start soldering around on the card you'll definitely have "damaged" it though.

Uhm... huh 🤣 ?

First of all, "soldering around" is not how I would describe what was a very clear recommendation of replacing a specific type of component.
Secondly, things are never "visibly damaged" until they are (this is valid for any electronic equipment). Once they are damaged, you end up wishing you would've done something about it before it happened (and I speak from personal experience here).
"the chances of an exploding cap damaging the board are rather slim" - I'm guessing you've never witnessed a tantalum cap go kaboom. I have, multiple times, and it's not pretty - more often than not, they will leave black/scorch marks in their immediate vicinity.

And now, to address the elephant in the room: in your opinion, "soldering definitely damages" an item? How did you come to this conclusion? Is it based on your own experience/soldering skills, or maybe on a comprehensive statistical analysis? 😀
Obviously, when I said that "he should replace those tantalums", I was not necessarily saying that he should actually do the soldering work himself. It's up to each individual to assess their own skills and know when they can or can't handle a certain task. If they know they can't do it, there are always professionals who can (and replacing those caps in a certified electronic shop would not even be that expensive - at least in some parts of the world).

As an example, I for one am a software engineer, I only do soldering work for fun/as a hobby, and yet I can still replace most components (especially capacitors) without anyone ever knowing that they were ever replaced. So a professional who does this for a living, will replace those capacitors with his eyes closed (and, no, they won't damage anything while doing so). 😀

Getting back to the actual Adlib in question: if this were my card (again, a very rare, collector's item), I would not wait patiently for those 30+ year old caps to go bad. Replacing them is without a doubt a trivial task even for someone with moderate soldering skills.

yes I have experienced blown tantalums, and no they have left no damage on the PCB whatsoever, they usually just blow their tops off, and yes they can leave scorch marks in the direction the blow up to, which is mostly up/outwards, and usually those can be cleaned up fine.
and you can test for shorted tantalums before you power up the device or use things like the ATX2AT smart to prevent violent explosions if you really wanna make 100% sure.

also tantalum caps are extremely resilient, that's the entire reason they blow up in the first place, because if they do fail, they do so violently, but in 99.99% of the cases they just keep working and working, we just have more experience with blown tantalums because we play around with old hardware a lot.

and by "damaged" I didn't mean it's gonna be broken or visibly damaged afterwards, yes that of course depends on your soldering skills, but I meant you'll have damaged the "original" state of the adlib card in the sense that you basically modified it, that's why I put the "damaged" in quotes, if anything were damaged or broken, then of course, it'd be totally worth it to fix it and make it work again, but there's simply no reason whatsoever to just start replacing components that have not failed and most likely never will, the chance of damaging anything by soldering... slipping with the soldering iron or whatever are definitely higher then the chance of a tantalum exploding damaging the PCB even if it should fail (which is still a very slim chance anyways).

imi wrote on 2022-06-30, 14:07:

yes I have experienced blown tantalums, and no they have left no damage on the PCB whatsoever, they usually just blow their tops off, and yes they can leave scorch marks in the direction the blow up to, which is mostly up/outwards, and usually those can be cleaned up fine.

You were lucky that your experience with blown tantalums has been benign, mine was very different on a couple of instances (one actually caught fire).
On another occasion, a shorted tantalum on a VLB I/O card (one that, up until that point, was in perfect working order), actually managed to kill one of my favorite 486 motherboards and also the 486 DX2-66 CPU that was on it.

imi wrote on 2022-06-30, 14:07:

and you can test for shorted tantalums before you power up the device or use things like the ATX2AT smart to prevent violent explosions if you really wanna make 100% sure.

Yes, of course you can test them... But let me ask you the million dollar question: how often do you actually test tantalums on any card that you own prior to using it after a certain period of time? 😀 Not that often, right?
Well, 30 year old tantalums can go short anytime. They can literally work just fine today, and fail within a few days. Will you thoroughly check the capacitors each time you test the card again? Be honest, I don't think you will. And you know what? I definitely don't check them a second time either - which is exactly why experience has taught me that it's better to just replace them from the get-go and forget about them. This way, the next time I test the card, I can confidently do so - it will be one less thing to worry about. So, once I started doing that, I've never had another issue.

imi wrote on 2022-06-30, 14:07:

and by "damaged" I didn't mean it's gonna be broken or visibly damaged afterwards, yes that of course depends on your soldering skills, but I meant you'll have damaged the "original" state of the adlib card in the sense that you basically modified it, that's why I put the "damaged" in quotes, if anything were damaged or broken, then of course, it'd be totally worth it to fix it and make it work again, but there's simply no reason whatsoever to just start replacing components that have not failed and most likely never will, the chance of damaging anything by soldering... slipping with the soldering iron or whatever are definitely higher then the chance of a tantalum exploding damaging the PCB even if it should fail (which is still a very slim chance anyways).

I guess we can just agree to disagree. IMO, replacing capacitors does not make the card any less original or any less valuable. In fact, I would argue that in many cases it actually makes it behave like it did 30 years ago. This is especially true for sound cards, where old electrolytic capacitors can often lead to degraded sound quality. And do I even have to mention motherboards?

If the owner of the card knows how to solder and will not damage the card by trying to replace the caps, then sure go ahead and replace them.

On the other hand, if the owner doesn't know how to solder and tries to replace the caps the card could very well end up being damaged or destroyed.