Boohyaka wrote on 2023-05-05, 10:27:

And, frankly, if there is every such a thing as a completely finished, never to be tinkered with, Retro PC - I've not seen it.

Truer words have rarely been spoken 😀 it's regularly discussed in here and I guess a vast majority of us spend more time tinkering with their hardware than actually using the computers. At least that's definitely my case!

The Orpheus would feel right at home in your DX2-66 IMO!

My retro build is always perfect and definitely completely finished. Until I inevitably decide to open it and tinker with it again...

My most "perfect" and "finished" retro system lives in a microATX case and has an Orpheus I in it. I would have liked to have put my Orpheus II in it, but it wouldn't fit.

Fun fact. I used to have an original GUS inside this case (back when I owned it). It just barely wouldn't fit, so I used a set of garden shears as a kid to shave off a few precious centimeters to get it in there. So if you ever spot a GUS in the wild that has the end shaved down terribly as if with scissors, it was mine. That was my fault.

Hi 😀
The card arrived, I tested it quickly and it works with the default settings.
I have some games that give me sound problems (same problem on mk3880):
Rick Dangerous 2 : (sound.com loaded) the sound is messed up.
The blues brothers : no sound
with any Soundblaster the sound works, Is this a compatibility issue or am I missing something???

flyers80 wrote on 2023-05-07, 15:10:

Hi :) The card arrived, I tested it quickly and it works with the default settings. I have some games that give me sound problem […]
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Hi 😀
The card arrived, I tested it quickly and it works with the default settings.
I have some games that give me sound problems (same problem on mk3880):
Rick Dangerous 2 : (sound.com loaded) the sound is messed up.
The blues brothers : no sound
with any Soundblaster the sound works, Is this a compatibility issue or am I missing something???

I just checked on my 233mmx build
- rick dangerous 2 does have sounds/music with sound.com loaded
- blues brothers I had to disable L1 cache to get the game to have sounds , seems like it's a speed sensitive game because without L1 disabled all I got was speaker sfx

both are adlib-using games so maybe the issue is with speed?

keropi wrote on 2023-05-07, 16:02:

I just checked on my 233mmx build - rick dangerous 2 does have sounds/music with sound.com loaded - blues brothers I had to di […]
Show full quote

I just checked on my 233mmx build
- rick dangerous 2 does have sounds/music with sound.com loaded
- blues brothers I had to disable L1 cache to get the game to have sounds , seems like it's a speed sensitive game because without L1 disabled all I got was speaker sfx

both are adlib-using games so maybe the issue is with speed?

I fixed it by disabling L1 cache, thanks 😀

Hey everyone, I'm having some difficulty getting one of my primary target games to work: Might and Magic 4/5.

I can get xeen to produce a variety of different failure modes, but not much in the way of success... Have any of you got Xeen working with MIDI, SB voice, and CD audio?

While in DOS and in Windows, I can get midi, SB FM synth, SB voice, and redbook CD audio working fine. My CDs are known good (they play redbook audio, and the game runs fine in dosbox from the CD)

• DOS 7.1 SB only: Partial.
  • Soundblaster voice: Yes.
  • Soundblaster music: Yes.
  • Redbook CD audio: No.
• DOS 7.1 - Soundblaster + MIDI: Fail.
  • Soundblaster voice: Yes.
  • Any Roland/MIDI option for music works but hangs in several places (this appears to be a common problem online, but I can't find any solutions).
  • Redbook CD audio: No.
• Windows 98SE SB only: Unreliable. Sound card seems to pick different IRQ/memory/dma randomly on boot, and then i have no sound at all.
  • Soundblaster voice: Yes, except when it randomly won't.
  • Soundblaster music: Yes, except when it randomly won't.
  • Redbook CD audio: Yes, except when it randomly won't.
• Windows 98SE SB + MIDI - All sorts of random weirdness if I try to combine these. The same randomness from the SB as well as crashes.

I only have the floppy versions of the games but I do not remember any issue with Xeen 4/5 running with CS4237 and/or PCMIDI
all what you describe sounds to me that the system PnP bios attempts to assign resources that are not good for sound usage - have you messed with the settings in the PNP/PCI page?
on my SS7 setup I need to have things like that so I get no issues with ISA soundcards

also keep in mind that ACPI is using IRQ2 - it can conflict with PCMIDI on default settings.

I would also try removing all other non-essential expansion cards during testing, in case there is a resource conflict. I can't even begin to try you how much trouble I have with USB 2.0 cards gobbling up resources on old boards like it's at a buffet.

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-05-10, 13:55:

I would also try removing all other non-essential expansion cards during testing, in case there is a resource conflict. I can't even begin to try you how much trouble I have with USB 2.0 cards gobbling up resources on old boards like it's at a buffet.

I worked around that problem by swapping to a PS/2 mouse and disabling USB, and then adding more reserved IRQs to the list on my BIOS. Sound cards now use the same resources in DOS and Windows! (Thanks keroppi!)

The CD talkie version of Xeen is a little squirrelly when it comes to midi + soundblaster + redbook, especially because I can't adjust the volume levels. I can't get all three audio sources to work at the same time.

It's actually quite frustrating because the CD is actually playing audio, but it's like the redbook audio volume is set to 0. I can play the same physical CD just fine in Windows Media Player, and I can even plug headphones into the CD drive and listen from there! But the game is taking over volume levels in a really irritating way.

I think my options are:

• Keep fiddling with audio levels - but how? Windows audio settings seem to be unrelated to this particular game's sound levels, and in DOS I can't adjust them at all once the game starts.
• Just get a hardware mixer, put every output I have into it, and connect my speakers to that.

So I can solve these problems in two ways:

1. Solving it with settings/software: Can I lock audio levels such that DOS games (whether running under DOS or Windows) cannot change them? What the heck is happening with CD audio here?
2. Solving it with a mixer: Is it possible to set up discrete audio outputs in any way (e.g. can I have discrete output for Crystal Wave, Crystal FM, GUS, etc? And can I ensure they won't be messed with by some random game? Where can I configure them? Or is there just a single physical output?

I would recommend something similar to what I do for Adlib sound, which I find to often be too quiet. To adjust its volume to where I want it requires that I adjust the master volume slider, which is self-defeating, because it increases the volume for digital auto as well.

My workaround was to use a second ISA card exclusively for Adlib sound and connect its line-out to the line-in of my primary card that also does digital sound effects.

I suspect that you could do something similar with a second card that manages your CD audio exclusively.

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-05-13, 22:04:

a second card that manages your CD audio exclusively.

🤣 retro PCs are full of this stuff 😀

At least my CD drive does have a microphone jack - it doesn't take any slots or IRQs either!

A microphone jack? Is that meant to be a passthrough? Was this some kind of prehistoric audio front panel?

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-05-14, 02:34:

A microphone jack? Is that meant to be a passthrough? Was this some kind of prehistoric audio front panel?

I suppose he meant headphone jack on the CD drive. 😜

ChrisTOTG wrote on 2023-05-13, 22:14:

microphone jack

Oops, I mean headphone jack.

games messing with the mixer volumes is an old and annoying issue... most even mess with inputs/outputs they don't even use
maybe a solution is MIDIto's mixer locking feature

That's a cool solution and it really helps!

But I was frustrated once too often, so I bought a mixer (MouKey MAXM3) from Amazon for $40. It pretty much made all of my problems go away immediately.

I now have a pretty sweet setup with four mixer inputs:

• Orpheus 2 output
• SC-88Pro output
• MT-32 output
• CD headphone jack (I disconnected the CDDA cable from the Orpheus)

and the two outputs go to my retro desktop speakers and to my modern PC's line-in. The FM/PCM/GUS audio all sits on the same line, and midito helps with those settings even when games are being offensively stupid with their sound card fuckery.

OK, next little project - could I use the CDDA cable to physically connect to my mixer? Is it the same spec as balanced trs?

In related news, I hope I never run out of stuff to do with my old hardware. This is the most fun I've had in AGES.

ah the benefits of an external mixer , once you use one you never go back to the struggles of trying to adjust your soundcard to juggle all inputs 😀
I can't recommend a mixer enough, it's a game changer.
CD audio should be line out, if your drive has a headphone jack you can give that a shot too as it will be louder

I have put a fair amount of effort into the setup of this machine after receiving my Orpheus card, so I figured I'd document my settings here..

Windows 98SE and DOS 7.10 on 440BX with Pentium-III 550MHz
This machine has a CD drive for CDDA/Redbook audio, and an Orpheus II for MIDI, Soundblaster, Gravis UltraSound, PC Speaker and Crystal audio. All devices are configured identically in Windows and in DOS.
Desired IRQ, DMA, and I/O values

• MPU-401 / PCMIDI
  • IRQ 3
    The original MPU-401 only supported IRQ 2/9, but ACPI also uses IRQ2 so it’s not ideal. Other devices such as LAPC-1 and MPU-401AT support a variety of IRQs, which means that most software will work fine on IRQ3. Assuming ACPI will be disabled, IRQ2 might be a better choice, but many newer motherboards make that resource hard to use, as they expect ACPI to be active.
  • I/O 0x330
• SoundBlaster
  • IRQ 5
    The original SB used IRQ7, but that conflicted with LPT ports. On my PC the parallel port is disabled so it wouldn’t matter, but I’ve used that IRQ for the GUS.
  • DMA 1
    No high DMA for this device, as it was used for recording but that feature is disabled on the Orpheus 2
  • SoundBlaster I/O address: 0x220
  • Adlib / FM I/O address: 0x388
• Gravis UltraSound
  Note: On a physical card there are multiple IRQ and DMA settings as the card can record and playback in GUS and SoundBlaster modes, but most of that is disabled on the Orpheus 2. We are only interested in the magic of its wavetable system anyway, so we use the following settings:
  • UltraSound IRQ 7
  • Play DMA 7
  • I/O 0x240

BIOS setup
The parallel (LPT) port has been disabled on this system, freeing IRQ7 for the GUS. Here are the IRQ and DMA values that I assigned in the BIOS:

Orpheus jumpers
Note that this image on the Orpheus website doesn’t match the card’s actual design, but it’s clear enough regardless.

For instance, on my card the MPU401 at the bottom left corner is labeled P7532, not P3572. Double-check your card to ensure that you’re configuring it the way you think you are.
Orpheus.ini
Note: These settings are current for Orphinit 0.57ß and may be different in future versions.

Each of the sections uses its own unique rubric for values, such as 0-7 where 0 is mute and 7 is loud; 1 to 31 where 1 is loud and 31 is mute, etc. Some sections use more than one. Check the file’s internal documentation for details, and experiment with the settings.

• [config]
  • cardType=OrpheusII
  • mode=sb
  • [mixer]
    • PCSpeakerVol=1
      The PC Speaker code in this version of Orphinit has some bugs, but maxing the volume will make it audible.
  • [sb-mode]
    With mode=sb, this is where you configure the SoundBlaster mixer settings.

IW.ini
Not yet fully documented!

Autoexec.bat
Some potentially-useful lines in your autoexec.bat:

• SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1
• SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\<8.3-path-to-orphinit>

What are the specs for the 16mb ram stick needed to max out this card? Any links to known good to use here for this purpose?

ChrisTOTG wrote on 2023-05-16, 06:06:

I have put a fair amount of effort into the setup of this machine after receiving my Orpheus card, so I figured I'd document my settings here..
[...]

nice writeup ChrisTOTG and good catch on the jumper markings, I have fixed that now 😀
you do not need the SET BLASTER variable on autoexec.bat , IMHO the best solution is to use CALL and invoke both ORPHEUS.BAT and ULTRASND.BAT from your autoexec.bat
orpheus.bat will also create and set the BLASTER variable automatically

jmirabil wrote on 2023-05-16, 06:10:

What are the specs for the 16mb ram stick needed to max out this card? Any links to known good to use here for this purpose?

single-sided FPM 5v stick is the best bet , in the unlike chance it's not compatible fully with interwave you'll hear it on playback as it will be broken

I have uploaded v4 of ULTRASND.ZIP
the only change is that now ULTRAMID.INI also exists in \MIDI subdirectory directory so Apogee games (like Whacky Wheels and Super Boppin) can detect and use GUS as a music device
if you already have the previous version of ultrasnd.zip and ultramid installed just make a copy of the INI in \MIDI directory and you are good to go!