I think until EmuSC gives the community a munt like program for the Sound Canvas everyone's going to be playing the waiting game since I'm not really aware of any real absolute solution to the SC emulation problem at the moment.

Yeah, I was afraid so. I'd still like to know more about how Sound Canvas VA and that VST 'dev. edition' compare / relate, if there are older versions of VA that do not require activation and what that dev. version's '32bit host requirement' actually means for emulation on a 64bit version of Windows. Because if VA would have been a single purchase / one time activation I would have been perfectly happy with it as a solution.

I use FluidSynth with a SC55 soundfont. Doesn't sound exactly like the real thing but not bad.
Also made a RPi into a multi-sound-emulation device, also based on FluidSynth with various soundfonts that can be switched remotely as well as Munt for MT32 compatibility, gets its input via a USB/serial adapter from a real MIDI/joystick sound card port. Also works fine.

(also FWIW the VSTi plugin with savihost and loopmidi works fine on a win10 x64 machine, I've tried it at some point in the past)

I tried a couple of SF2 soundfonts with FluidSynth (Emperorgrieferus 70MB, ZZDennis v0.5 and Trevor0402 v1.2b) and while they each have their pros and cons, all were just 'off' in a way that I found too distracting. I had considered a Pi-based MIDI module, but that was eventually not the way I wanted to go for this build. It is very cool though!

Do you know if that VSTi plugin was a 32bit one? Or are they all per definition if they are not Sound Canvas VA (how these two relate still isn't entirely clear to me).

SCVA had non-Roland Cloud versions before, but they are all unavailable. It's currently the best choice for having multiple SC units emulated, but it has it's strengths and weaknesses and is the only choice that works out of the box on today's systems.

Virtual Sound Canvas VST Developers Edition v1.6 VSTi is a cracked version of a Roland VSTi that emulates the SC-8850. It used to be sold with an older Roland Virtual Sound Canvas packaging from the Windows 98/ME and Windows XP days. It has Roland GS and GM2 modes.

Roland Virtual Sound Canvas was a packaging of several Roland MIDI module ROMs, with playback/driver software that would allow you to use different soundsets from different Roland modules for composition or playback of MIDI files and to use those sounds with games that supported MIDI in Windows or DOSBOX or whatever.

There is also the Roland Hyper Canvas, which is a GM2 VSTi from the early 2000's, when Roland voluntarily migrated away from their Roland GS standard to support the GM2 one.

I don't remember, it was a while ago. I do know that savihost comes in 2 flavors, 32bit and 64bit and AFAIK each works only with the same kind of plugin. I think the 32-bit version runs on a 64-bit host if you also have a 32-bit plugin.

Thanks for your replies!

So, to summarize: Sound Canvas VST Developers Edition would be of questionable legality at best, and probably not the most accurate at emulating an SC-55 then... but it should probably work on 64-bit Windows with the 32-bit version of SAVIhost, which should be fine if it's the only VSTi to be used.

I might give that a try just to see how I like it, but I see where SC VA would be the better option for most.

SCVA is the only option, if you want to emulate an SC-55 to SC-88/SC-8820 unit. The VSC VST is certainly capable of handling any SC-55 MIDI, but it's really designed for the later MIDI of the SC-88/SC-88 Pro, as it apparently emulates the SC-8850, but without the soundsets of the other modules, which are through the separate VSC stand-alone program that bundles the sounds of the modules, like the newer SCVA does.

sndwv wrote on 2023-03-26, 19:18:

Thanks for your replies!

So, to summarize: Sound Canvas VST Developers Edition would be of questionable legality at best, and probably not the most accurate at emulating an SC-55 then... but it should probably work on 64-bit Windows with the 32-bit version of SAVIhost, which should be fine if it's the only VSTi to be used.

I might give that a try just to see how I like it, but I see where SC VA would be the better option for most.

I have just tested it, the 32-bit VST plugin works with the 32-bit version of savihost on Win10x64.
To find it, use the exact name of the plugin as it appears in your OP in a search engine (preferably the duck one) and find a link to the internet archive where you can download it.
You can use a similar method to find a standalone version of the SC-VA plugin on the same archive site. One that does not require online activation. That one can be set to emulate SC55 or 8820. And also on the same site, a VST plugin for Yamaha YXG50.

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2023-03-26, 19:53:

SCVA is the only option, if you want to emulate an SC-55 to SC-88/SC-8820 unit. The VSC VST is certainly capable of handling any SC-55 MIDI, but it's really designed for the later MIDI of the SC-88/SC-88 Pro, as it apparently emulates the SC-8850, but without the soundsets of the other modules, which are through the separate VSC stand-alone program that bundles the sounds of the modules, like the newer SCVA does.

Thanks, really helpful for finally understanding how this all fits together!

stamasd wrote on 2023-03-26, 20:12:

I have just tested it, the 32-bit VST plugin works with the 32-bit version of savihost on Win10x64.
To find it, use the exact name of the plugin as it appears in your OP in a search engine (preferably the duck one) and find a link to the internet archive where you can download it.
You can use a similar method to find a standalone version of the SC-VA plugin on the same archive site. One that does not require online activation. That one can be set to emulate SC55 or 8820. And also on the same site, a VST plugin for Yamaha YXG50.

And thank you for testing this out, and the helpful pointers! Going to give all of this a try, if nothing else to see how I like each option.

Do you mind if I inquire about your mini-PC, hardware-wise? It's because I'm doing something similar; dual-boot MSDOS and Win7 on a Zotac Zbox MA760 https://www.zotac.com/us/product/mini_pcs/ma760-plus It works fine, even getting sound in DOS thanks to SBEMU. 😀

Sure! I wanted to make a portable retro 'party box', and went with a used Dell OptiPlex 3050 Micro (Intel i5-7500T @2.5GHz, 16GB, VGA & HDMI out) and added fast SSD storage for boot, and an external drive for games. Currently it dual boots Windows 10 and Batocera, and it connects to the NAS at home to copy software and games to it.

In Windows it can do anything I want regarding DOSBox and ScummVM, and some PCem (I think I got up to a Pentium 100/66 out of it). I use Batocera for most console emulation, and it does anything up to PS2, Xbox and GameCube/Wii, where most games work, but some of the more demanding titles start to trail off. Ideally I would have had just that bit of extra horsepower for those games (as I have zero interest in emulating anything newer anyway), but considering the price I paid I'm more than happy with it, and somewhat hopeful future emulator developments might improve the situation a bit 😉

Batocera curently provides a pretty good out-of-the box lightgun experience if that's your thing by the way- I've been having a lot of fun with the Sinden Lightgun. I used to hate these EmulationStation front end-based OSes, but Batocera has been so sleek and easy to use I even started 'bundling up' a couple of DOS and ScummVM titles for it, which work absolutely fine with Munt emulation and other bells and whistles.

Haven't tried booting MSDOS from it yet, but might be a future project!

Nice. Well my box isn't that powerful but very small, barely more than a paperback book and lightweight. Runs most games I'm interested in in DOS with sound; those that it doesn't I run in win7 under DosBox.
Haven't tried Linux on it, but that's primarily because my distribution of choice is Funtoo (Gentoo derivative) and installing it on that CPU would take a few days. 😀
Basically I'm only looking at games from roughly 1995 to 2005 or so, and it fits the bill well. Mostly space sims; I just played some X:BTF and Freelancer on it, they both run nicely. And Frontier First Encounters in DOS. 😀

Yeah, it's fun building these surprisingly competent mini and micro PC's 😀. I had initially tried the same with a LarkBox Pro (a super tiny cube), but stability, BIOS and driver issues made me abandon that one and go for the MFF Dell.

Played a lot of Frontier: Elite II back in the day. I did have First Encounters on CD-ROM but it kept crashing on me back then, so I never got far. Also on the to-do list! It has a pretty cool General MIDI soundtrack at least, that intro tune was amazing 😉

sndwv wrote on 2023-03-26, 22:04:

Yeah, it's fun building these surprisingly competent mini and micro PC's 😀. I had initially tried the same with a LarkBox Pro (a super tiny cube), but stability, BIOS and driver issues made me abandon that one and go for the MFF Dell.

Played a lot of Frontier: Elite II back in the day. I did have First Encounters on CD-ROM but it kept crashing on me back then, so I never got far. Also on the to-do list! It has a pretty cool General MIDI soundtrack at least, that intro tune was amazing 😉

Sooo... you never played FFE with John Jordan's patch? The original FFE was buggy as hell, but then in the late 90s it was reverse engineered and patched by a fan. The patch is called JJFFE and though the original page is gone you can still find it on archive.org. It has source code included; in fact I have compiled my own binaries from it, if you want I can share (because I had to setup a build system on XP in a virtual machine and it was a bit of a pain). Not only that but I hacked a bit the source code to reintroduce a bug that was previously patched (the infamous autopilot bug, that allows you to instantly decelerate from close to light speed to a dead stop and dock with space stations - because it makes life much easier 😀 ).
I have compiled both pure DOS binaries, and Win32 binaries. The latter run nicely even under modern Win10. And they are compatible with Buffet 2.1, the famous game editor/cheat manager.

Also check out George Hooper's guides for FE2 and FFE/JJFFE, they are worth a look. Including a guide to all of the hardcoded missions, and a guide to efficiently starting the game so you can quickly get lots of cash and a good ship. https://ffeartpage.com/utility.htm

And to remain on topic - it also works nicely in DOSbox if you select LAPC-I or MPU-401 in game's sound options and redirect the DOSbox MIDI output to one of the VSTi plugins above. Or use the built-in fluidsynth with the soundfont of your choice.

What about Dreamblaster X2GS? It has licensed GS bank. It is external USB device, but its tiny and fits in your pocket.

SuperDeadite wrote on 2023-03-27, 01:11:

What about Dreamblaster X2GS? It has licensed GS bank. It is external USB device, but its tiny and fits in your pocket.

It's not the Sound Canvas bank though I guess. In saying that it can be set up to sound very similar and has officially replaced my SCC-1

I've played around with Sound Canvas VA in the meantime. Works *fairly* well, I've noticed a couple of minor differences compared to the real thing, but pretty good overal and I would consider it a pretty good solution. HOWEVER I noticed with two games so far, The 7th Guest, in both DOSBox and ScummVM, the initial music in the foyer is clearly 'off', and Descent in DOSBox also has noticeable issues.

It's the drum section, the wrong drum sounds are playing. I noticed the VA starts with Rhythm Part - Drum1 set to Part10. I need to set it to the same value after the game loads, so from Part10 to Part10 to get the right drum sounds.

Is this a quirk of the game? Of SAVIhost or the VA itself? I read somewhere unwarranted reset commands can mess up the VA, is there anything I can do to prevent this issue?

Edit: I tried filtering Control Change, Program Change and Sysex and System Reset in SAVIhost. Only thing that appears to affect it is Program Change, but that also changes piano sounds. Basically, I have no idea what I'm doing 😉. I see CC00/CC32 mentioned to be filtered, but SAVIhost doesn't appear to have these listed as-is, only 000 (Bank Select). But even filtering all Control Change options does not fix the drum. If anyone knows what to check, let me know!

sndwv wrote on 2023-03-26, 12:21:

- Roland Virtual Sound Canvas: Tech Tangents just made a video about this.
If I understand correctly this is somewhat unique in not needing a host like SAVIhost and loopback MIDI, but it is only compatible with windows up to XP, and I assume no one has ever made this work on Windows 7 or 10?

Roland Virtual Sound Canvas is a real soft synth, just like Yamaha S-YXG50 or Casio SW-10.
Unfortunately, Windows Vista and later no longer have Direct Music. That's why Windows XP is the last OS real soft synths can run on.