VOGONS


First post, by stealthjoe

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I had recently bought a graphics card from ebay (ATI 9200 SE AGP). Today while testing it noted that the display output was corrupted. Tried on 2 different motherboards with the same results. Please see the output below:

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I was then checking the card and noted that a resistor R400 seems to be missing as well as a capacitor C53 (not quite sure on this one) at its backside. Please see the images below:

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I suppose the card is of Asus. Could someone please let me know the value for the resistor R400 as well as the capacitor C53(if this is indeed the missing element)? Thanks.

Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 1 of 17, by Repo Man11

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I'm not sure about the resistor, but it appears that the values of SMD ceramic capacitors is determined by their size, so one that same size should have the same values. https://resources.pcb.cadence.com/blog/2023-s … tor-size-charts

Here is a good tutorial on soldering SMDs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NycbZMKaxRc

Last edited by Repo Man11 on 2024-04-20, 21:13. Edited 1 time in total.

"I'd rather be rich than stupid" - Jack Handey

Reply 2 of 17, by Repo Man11

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This image is from an Asus 9200 Se for sale on Ebay - both of those spots are populated, but the image doesn't have sufficient resolution to know what the value of that missing resistor is.

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"I'd rather be rich than stupid" - Jack Handey

Reply 4 of 17, by Repo Man11

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Karbist wrote on 2024-04-20, 18:53:

R400=6.8K
C53=100nf

Is there a method for determining these values that you could share with those of us who aren't very experienced at this sort of thing?

"I'd rather be rich than stupid" - Jack Handey

Reply 5 of 17, by Karbist

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Repo Man11 wrote on 2024-04-20, 19:36:

Is there a method for determining these values that you could share with those of us who aren't very experienced at this sort of thing?

I have a bunch of ati 9250, so that was easy to find the value but even without a similar card you can easily guess the correct value,
the Q3 and Q4 are horizontal and vertical sync outputs therefore the value of R399 and R400 should be the same.

Reply 6 of 17, by stealthjoe

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Thank you for your replies @Repo Man11 and @Karbist

Karbist wrote on 2024-04-20, 18:53:

R400=6.8K
C53=100nf

Thank you for the values. I am assuming the smd cap is a ceramic one with no specific polarity marked. Can you please confirm? Thanks.

Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 8 of 17, by stealthjoe

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Update:
Had soldered the SMD resistor and capacitor today in the respective places (C53 & R400). However the issue is still present.

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Any thoughts as to what might be the issue?

Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 9 of 17, by paradigital

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That looks like the kind of checkerboard pattern that is created by a failing RAM module.

Try applying pressure to the RAM chips whilst the card is running and see if you can see any difference.

Reply 10 of 17, by Karbist

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Measure every zero ohm and 56 ohms resistor around the ram chips on both side of pcb, they are in form of single resistors and resistor arrays.
it's annoying task but you might get lucky and find an open resistor.

Reply 11 of 17, by Minutemanqvs

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Considering the card it is, from an economical standpoint just buy a new one. Now from a challenge standpoint, it’s probably a bad RAM chip from what I have seen in youtube videos.

Searching a Nexgen Nx586 with FPU, PM me if you have one. I have some Athlon MP systems and cookies.

Reply 12 of 17, by BitWrangler

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I wouldn't say that type of RAM is particularly known for going bad... so check solder on all pins... if good and shiny and nothing cracked off the board, consider that it might be a symptom of the power supply to the RAM being not as good as it should be somehow, either noise/filtering or lower volts than spec or something.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 13 of 17, by stealthjoe

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Karbist wrote on 2024-04-25, 17:37:

Measure every zero ohm and 56 ohms resistor around the ram chips on both side of pcb, they are in form of single resistors and resistor arrays.
it's annoying task but you might get lucky and find an open resistor.

I measured all the zero and 56 ohm resistors around the memory chips and they seem to be fine. One thing I noted is that there are some resistors marked 512 below the ram chips. As per my understanding this is supposed to be 5.1 k ohm. However on measuring these it showed 2.6 k ohm. It is the same case with all these 512 resistors and with 2 different multimeters. Is this the expected value?

Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 14 of 17, by stealthjoe

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paradigital wrote on 2024-04-25, 16:59:

That looks like the kind of checkerboard pattern that is created by a failing RAM module.

In the case of a failing ram module, any idea if another alternate easily available module could be used here? I checked for the same part number on ebay and it seems to be unavailable atleast to my country.

Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 15 of 17, by Karbist

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stealthjoe wrote on 2024-04-26, 09:52:

One thing I noted is that there are some resistors marked 512 below the ram chips. As per my understanding this is supposed to be 5.1 k ohm. However on measuring these it showed 2.6 k ohm. It is the same case with all these 512 resistors and with 2 different multimeters. Is this the expected value?

Yeah they are in parallel with each other, that's normal.

Reply 16 of 17, by technokater

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stealthjoe wrote on 2024-04-26, 09:55:

In the case of a failing ram module, any idea if another alternate easily available module could be used here? I checked for the same part number on ebay and it seems to be unavailable atleast to my country.

Try to find the datasheet of the original RAM chip and then look for one that has similar specs. Might help to search Mouser or any other distributor, they have parts search where you can input parameters.

Reply 17 of 17, by momaka

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stealthjoe wrote on 2024-04-26, 09:52:

As per my understanding this is supposed to be 5.1 k ohm. However on measuring these it showed 2.6 k ohm. It is the same case with all these 512 resistors and with 2 different multimeters. Is this the expected value?

Yes, it's normal for resistors to sometimes measure lower resistance in circuit. This is because other paths in the circuit could be putting other resistors or components in parallel with them, making the overall reading lower. Only if resistance reads higher than what is printed, you should be concerned.

Since you card had damaged SMD parts on it, there's a good chance there may be more. I can see nothing else appear to be missing. However, hard shock can sometimes crack ceramic caps and cause them to short out. Now, if any of them shorted out on a power rail, they would either burn up or take the power rail down, causing the card to not work at all. However, there should be a few ceramic caps around the RAM modules that are not for filtering a power rail and are rather used as signal coupling. If these short, the signal going to the memory chip(s) can become corrupt, leading exactly to the issues you see. I managed to save a Radeon HD6850 a few years back with this exact problem (shorted ceramic cap near one of the RAM chips.) To check for this issue, basically perform a resistance test across all of the small ceramic caps around the memory chips and the back of the GPU chip. Note that some will show a very low resistance reading - these are likely to be power rail filters for either the GPU core voltage or the RAM V_dd voltage. Once you test a few, you'll know which ones are which, because the one on the GPU V_core, for example, will have the lowest resistance reading, and it would be consistently the same for all ceramic caps that are connected to it. Same with the RAM. Outside of these two, if you find any ceramic caps reading a "hard" short-circuit (less than a few Ohms), you should note them down (and maybe post them here too.)
I have the same exact Asus Radeon 9200 video card, so I could double-check these values for you to see if they are a fluke or not. Just have to find where it is (since I moved somewhat recently, and there's still lots of non-essential stuff sitting in boxes.)