VOGONS


First post, by Nemo1985

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Actually I have in my collection the following matrox pci cards:
Matrox Mystique 2mb memory clocked at 60/90 mhz (unsure about it)
Matrox Mystique 220 4mb memory anclocked at 60/90 (again unsure)
Matrox Millennium II 4mb memory clocked at 66/66 (as always unsure about it).

The information I found so far is that the first Millennium is less 3d capable than the Mystique, while the Millennium II is 3d capable as the Mystique\220.
I know that in dos the compatibility of matrox card is inferior compared to s3 cards, but the 2d quality is much better.
Reading the vintage3d review, that there are few variats of the first mystique:
old Mystique with 1064SG-D chip with slowest clock 50/75 MHz and 4 MB of RAM, while the 1064SG-H 4mb uses 100-80 ns memories, but it's apparently an in between the original mystique and the 220, in fact is usually labelled as 220.

I also found that there is a very rare 8mb Millennium II and agp version with 4mb, so far I failed to find the both and the memory upgrade seems to be impossible to find nowadays.

Is it worth to invest some money on a Millennium 1 4mb game wise? I just checked my notes and noticed that the Millennium II is on par with Mystique 220 in 2d dos games, which is also par with original Mystique.

Is there any difference between pci and agp version?

Thanks

Last edited by Nemo1985 on 2024-04-21, 18:31. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 9, by Putas

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AFAIK, there isn't an order of Mystique cards and their clocks. All the chips can appear in more clock variants. I have a suspicion Matrox card numbering (the xxx-xx format) can encode it, but I do not know enough cards to examine that.

Reply 2 of 9, by Nemo1985

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I've just found those informations on dosdays.co.uk about the Millennium:
Core Clock:
50 MHz (IS-STORM-R2 and MGA2064W-R2)
60 MHz (MGA2064W-R3)

So apparently the "best version" is the r3 with 4mb of memory.
I will try to find if there is anything similar about the Millennium 2 and the Mystique 220

Reply 3 of 9, by DrAnthony

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-04-21, 17:02:

The information I found so far is that the first Millennium is less 3d capable than the Mystique, while the Millennium II is 3d capable as the Mystique\220.
I know that in dos the compatibility of matrox card is inferior compared to s3 cards, but the 2d quality is much better.

Keep in mind that the original Millennium's 3D capability is extremely rudimentary. There are only a handful of titles that were written to use it and it didn't even support texture mapping. It's much more accurate to view it as world class 2D hardware for that specific era. You're correct that it has some of the best analog image quality out there, but a case could be made that it's well into diminishing returns territory. In motion at period relevant resolutions for games, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between a millennium and a ViRGE from a quality vendor. The issue there is that there was a huuuuuuge gap in quality from low end vendors and the high end, so you would need to do your homework. That said, the compatibility issues are somewhat unlikely to bite you on the millennium and it's all well documented so you can see if anything you plan on running would even be effected.

Reply 4 of 9, by The Serpent Rider

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Original Millennium 3D capabilities were designed with CAD in mind. So it's still a 3D accelerator, just not for gaming.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 5 of 9, by Nemo1985

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I see, so it may be even worse than the vanilla Mystique?
I've been able to get a Millennium 4mb rev R3.
Now I need to get a Mystique 4mb, the Millennium II AGP and the 8mb Millennium II if ever.
When I get it I'd like to do a comparison between all of those.
What configuration I should use? A 440bx paired with a pentium 2-3? Which windows applications other than final reality?

Thanks

Reply 6 of 9, by Kruton 9000

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Millennium 1 is almost 2d-only card regardless of the chip and memory size that is used there. Very limited 3d functionality.
Mystique and Mystique 220 cards have huge rendering quality, missing a lot of common features. Graphics looks more like on PlayStation 1 though some people like it. Millennium 2 is slightly better in rendering but still very far from perfect.
Mystique cards series have support of their own 3d API - MSI. Original Mystique is most compatible in MSI games but the slowest, 220 - less compatible but faster, Millennium 2 - minimum compatibility but maximum speed. There are also hybrid Mystiques with early chip and 220 MHz RAMDAC - compromise in compatibility, speed and quality.
The original Mystique has slowest RAMDAC meaning it has worst available image quality modes in lineup. But it is still great for its time.
AGP bus for those old cards means almost nothing except of interface itself. They are too slow to use faster bus effectively.
Shortly, all those early Matroxes are useful mostly for 2d and especially good in combination with Voodoo 1 or 2 because of signal quality loss in pass-through cable. Their 3d capabilities are limited though performance of Mystique was good for late 1996- early 1997.

Reply 7 of 9, by Nemo1985

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Thank you for the complete answer and the precious informations
Do you think that this version is hybrid version you mentioned? The video chip is the old one but the memory is faster than common Mystique and the back is labelled as 220:

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Reply 8 of 9, by Kruton 9000

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2024-04-22, 09:08:
Thank you for the complete answer and the precious informations Do you think that this version is hybrid version you mentioned? […]
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Thank you for the complete answer and the precious informations
Do you think that this version is hybrid version you mentioned? The video chip is the old one but the memory is faster than common Mystique and the back is labelled as 220:
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Yes, that seems to be the case. MGA1064SG chip there. Inscription "Copyright 1997" on top is common for Mystique 220. Also it is labeled "MY220" on back side.