Very good points.

I can feel how the devs are jumping quite a risk with that board, since I am pretty sure they need to size a volume order of the FPGA parts. If the price ends up being a turn-off, they might have a struggle to move their inventory.

I'd like to record the retro stuff I do.
There are some things I need to take into account? I can see:

- Hz of the video output + video capture card accepted inputs
- video quality (from low VGA to 1080p); 4:3, 16:9...
- physical input (vga/hdmi...)
- output format of captured footage

Is there anything else? I gave a quick look but I'm a little confused, as of now. Basic go for 50€ up to hundreds.
Thanks!

Nexxen wrote on 2023-08-11, 11:01:

I'd like to record the retro stuff I do. There are some things I need to take into account? I can see: […]
Show full quote

I'd like to record the retro stuff I do.
There are some things I need to take into account? I can see:

- Hz of the video output + video capture card accepted inputs
- video quality (from low VGA to 1080p); 4:3, 16:9...
- physical input (vga/hdmi...)
- output format of captured footage

Is there anything else? I gave a quick look but I'm a little confused, as of now. Basic go for 50€ up to hundreds.
Thanks!

The question is whether you want to record DOS Games with 320x200 in VGA.
If yes -> Very limited options. Several not very optimal one. The the Datapath RGB for 1000€+ or around 50-150$ used on Ebay.
And then soon this new Retrotink for up to 1000€

Stuff which devices usually fail at:
-Capturing 70Hz
-Automatic Resolution switching (even on Datapath with the Software made by users thats an issue)

In addition to that keep in mind that 320x200 is 16:10 while its displayed on 4:3 screens. CRT Pixels in this case were not square. But thats something you can do via OBS for example.

Kordanor wrote on 2023-08-11, 11:57:

The question is whether you want to record DOS Games with 320x200 in VGA. If yes -> Very limited options. Several not very optim […]
Show full quote

Nexxen wrote on 2023-08-11, 11:01:

I'd like to record the retro stuff I do. There are some things I need to take into account? I can see: […]
Show full quote

I'd like to record the retro stuff I do.
There are some things I need to take into account? I can see:

- Hz of the video output + video capture card accepted inputs
- video quality (from low VGA to 1080p); 4:3, 16:9...
- physical input (vga/hdmi...)
- output format of captured footage

Is there anything else? I gave a quick look but I'm a little confused, as of now. Basic go for 50€ up to hundreds.
Thanks!

The question is whether you want to record DOS Games with 320x200 in VGA.
If yes -> Very limited options. Several not very optimal one. The the Datapath RGB for 1000€+ or around 50-150$ used on Ebay.
And then soon this new Retrotink for up to 1000€

Stuff which devices usually fail at:
-Capturing 70Hz
-Automatic Resolution switching (even on Datapath with the Software made by users thats an issue)

In addition to that keep in mind that 320x200 is 16:10 while its displayed on 4:3 screens. CRT Pixels in this case were not square. But thats something you can do via OBS for example.

Thanks.
The good old "it's complicated". 😀

Yeah, I was thinking old 320x200, but I already knew it is trouble. When you see YT videos recorded externally it means something.
Not really interested in recording games, just general hardware troubleshooting and stills (instead of my phone). I can live with 640x480.

I don't have a clear idea, I'll look more into it thanks to your answer. Learning, always... There's no end here @ Vogons 😀

If top quality is not of your concern you can also check out some chinese VGA->HDMI converters. They need to be active (not passive) and if you are lucky it might work with some issues.
You can also try and get a Newer graphics card with DVI Out, where the conversion to a digital format is done by the graphics card already. Usually with a massive hit on qualty ofc.
You could also go for the SVIDEO Route and capture that instead. OFC also with a quality loss.
Ofc both, the DVI and SVideo route would limit you to specific graphics cards.

That said, even Datapath software basically needs to be tunes for each Graphics card and Resolution. Similar to a CRT Monitor.

VGA to an OSSC into either the Datapath card, or an alternative like a Magewell Pro Capture.

Dos resolutions are weird enough that an OSSC really does pay dividends in terms of feeding a capture device a sane signal.

Well, my Fosmon VGA to Composite Converter just died, I figured I'd give a little review of it here and tell what's next.

So my current setup is a late 2015 iMac 21.5" with a Amazon.com bought Composite/S-Video capture USB device, and I would feed my VGA machines into the composite device via a 1/8" stereo to RCA cable for sound, and the Fosmon for VGA.

Firs toff, that little purple Fosmon thing pretty cheaply built. The cables that came with it all crapped out on me in short order, and all they do is lay around on my desk. Later on I was using a 6 foot VGA cable with a pin removed to allow my Compaq Deskpro to be attached. This device was only really good for 640x480p and updward, but I would sometimes manage to force it to use 320x200 or other wacky DOS resolutions by using a laptop computer with it - usually an NEC Versa M/75, P/75, or NanTan FMA9200D - because the LCD controllers on those cause the screen to fit into the Fosmon's window properly in "SimulScan" or "CRT+LCD" mode depending on the computer we're talking about.

On my desktops however, the Fosmon would cut off the right side of the screen or the outer edges, and getting it properly stretched out would not work. Odd since I was using a totally different setup years ago and it worked great till it burned out. It seems the problem with these new Chinese Composite to VGA converters is that they are oriented at MODERN PCs using 640x480 or better resolution , and so the chipsets are limited to that resolution or ghigher, nothing below that. The telltale was when I ran things like Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 in 640x480 or 800x600, I would get the full screen, then drop to DOS and you'd get the edges cut off unless it was a later era laptop that put out a more compatible VGA signal.

THe other problem with the Fosmon was that it looked VERY dim and had poor contrast in Composite, and no adjusting of colors ever worked right with it. In S-Video it looked a lot better but there was a lot of color bleed meaning you had to really turn down the colors. However, the most incredibly janky thing with this device was that it could use either the menu, or two small dip-switches in a square on the side to change between PAL, NTSC-M, or NTSC-J, and I think even SECAM. And the dip switches were broken out of the box a little bit, so sometimes it'd freak out for no reason because the left DIP was "floating" a little bit and the contact made it unreliable.

Toward the end I started having power issues with it both because the soldering inside must have been bad and my USB-to-Barrel Jack cables kept going bad. That's why I ultimately scrapped it recently because I was getting sick of it being so problematic.

So now I'm thinking of trying a more "direct" solution for VGA......

So has anyone used these 1080 generic VGA Frame grabbers with Audio in at all? I'm thinking this might be a great solution, but I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing here, or any possibility this is meant for higher resolutions like the Fosmon? I may still end up getting it anyway to experiment and pioreer, just wondering if anyone else has used this type of thing before.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-06, 07:54:

megatron-uk wrote on 2023-08-06, 07:21:

Really? That's what they are telling people to budget? So approximately TEN times the cost of existing OSSC and Retrotink products?

How many people are they expecting to buy one, when it's the cost of a really nice TV or a decent PC?

For that feature set, assuming they fully deliver on their promise, I might be willing to pay a premium. The reason being, this single device would cover all of my retro console scaling needs, as well as provide a nice option to scale DOS PC games to modern displays. That said, I'll be waiting on very detailed reviews before I even think about laying down that amount of cash. If all the boxes that I care about are ticked, I may consider getting one.

Personally, I prefer gaming on CRT displays when possible. I currently have a 29" Sony Trinitron TV with SCART input for my retro consoles, and a 17" Samsung CRT monitor for my retro PCs. At the same time, I realize that these are finite resources and that they will get worn out through use and eventually break down. Having the option to use modern LCD displays with a nice selection of scaling and filtering options would make for a decent, long-term alternative.

I checked the digital foundry video and i couldn't believe the quality, features and compatibility, i hope it goes down in price but given the amount of systems i have and the ridiculous amount of cables for my setup i will buy it.

DNSDies wrote on 2022-07-05, 14:20:

Try capturing video and audio at the same time with it in Windows 10. The video freezes. They advertise it as being able to capture both, and it CAN, but only in Windows 7.
Oh, and don't buy their expensive audio/sd video breakout boards. They have no components on them and I posted the pinout of the expansion headers on this board some time ago.

I can capture both in Windows 11. I did encounter the bug you speak of in VirtualDub. You have to turn off audio preview (yet you can leave the levels meter on), and it captures audio and video together fine. I don't know if the bug is in Windows or with the driver. Even using a sound card audio input the video freezing happens. The Epiphan capture tool, as useless as it is, doesn't seem to have a problem with audio preview on.

creepingnet wrote on 2023-08-15, 20:36:

[...]

So now I'm thinking of trying a more "direct" solution for VGA......

So has anyone used these 1080 generic VGA Frame grabbers with Audio in at all? I'm thinking this might be a great solution, but I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing here, or any possibility this is meant for higher resolutions like the Fosmon? I may still end up getting it anyway to experiment and pioreer, just wondering if anyone else has used this type of thing before.

I have tried the USB cap device in your 2nd photo years ago, I tried to capture with a raspberry pi. It worked, but the quality wasn't the best. I got mine for about 3 € on aliexpress. These cheap things are all over the place on aliexpress under different brands, i guess if you can find one cheaply, you could just try it yourself.
Just don't pay more than a few dollars / euros.

NJRoadfan wrote on 2023-09-24, 01:28:

DNSDies wrote on 2022-07-05, 14:20:

Try capturing video and audio at the same time with it in Windows 10. The video freezes. They advertise it as being able to capture both, and it CAN, but only in Windows 7.
Oh, and don't buy their expensive audio/sd video breakout boards. They have no components on them and I posted the pinout of the expansion headers on this board some time ago.

I can capture both in Windows 11. I did encounter the bug you speak of in VirtualDub. You have to turn off audio preview (yet you can leave the levels meter on), and it captures audio and video together fine. I don't know if the bug is in Windows or with the driver. Even using a sound card audio input the video freezing happens. The Epiphan capture tool, as useless as it is, doesn't seem to have a problem with audio preview on.

since i made this post they updated the drivers for proper windows 10 support and told everyone "we won't be supporting 11 with these devices", so enjoy it while it lasts.

DNSDies wrote on 2023-10-01, 05:03:

since i made this post they updated the drivers for proper windows 10 support and told everyone "we won't be supporting 11 with these devices", so enjoy it while it lasts.

So far, the drivers for the DVI2PCIe Pro still seem to work for the older card. Even then, I don't know if I can rule this out being a DirectShow bug or some sort of VirtualDub bug (I have to try other capture applications). The video capture stack in Windows has always been a buggy pile of garbage. Technically using your sound card for audio capture should have nothing to do with the video capture device. The Epiphan Capture Tool seems unaffected otherwise.

ahh, you're only capturing video with the device. These support audio capture too, and have balanced inputs on the card pin headers or via HDMI.
If you're using a separate audio stream or split the audio out from HDMI with another device, this wouldn't cause any issues.
The USB 3 version only supports audio capture as part of an HDMI signal over DVI.

Though it outputs in 16:9 in OBS for some reason, I can say the EVGA XR1 Pro is fantastic with DOS machines via the OSSC. Plus, if you have a VGA monitor, get a quality active-powered HDMI to VGA converter for the passthrough of the XR1. This has eliminated any and all need for my Datapath card.

NightSprinter wrote on 2023-10-28, 13:59:

Though it outputs in 16:9 in OBS for some reason, I can say the EVGA XR1 Pro is fantastic with DOS machines via the OSSC. Plus, if you have a VGA monitor, get a quality active-powered HDMI to VGA converter for the passthrough of the XR1. This has eliminated any and all need for my Datapath card.

How do you handle resolution switching? Especially switching between same resolutions with different phasing is problematic with datapath. Like between 320x200 in a VGA game, 320x200 in a EGA game, and Text Mode, which all 3 are 720x400 in DOS with different phasing. So you basically need to re-adjust the phasing / profile each time you switch.

I may need to do the mod for the 1.7 firmware. Had been told it really stabilizes a lot in terms of sync for anything that isn't standard NTSC or PAL.

DNSDies wrote on 2023-10-07, 17:51:

ahh, you're only capturing video with the device. These support audio capture too, and have balanced inputs on the card pin headers or via HDMI.
If you're using a separate audio stream or split the audio out from HDMI with another device, this wouldn't cause any issues.

I tested video captures using the card's audio inputs for sound, even though I don't have the A/V kit. I'm wondering if my card is ok though, as the audio inputs without anything connected to the header is producing a burst of static at random intervals.

creepingnet wrote on 2023-08-15, 20:36:

Well, my Fosmon VGA to Composite Converter just died, I figured I'd give a little review of it here and tell what's next. […]
Show full quote

Well, my Fosmon VGA to Composite Converter just died, I figured I'd give a little review of it here and tell what's next.

So my current setup is a late 2015 iMac 21.5" with a Amazon.com bought Composite/S-Video capture USB device, and I would feed my VGA machines into the composite device via a 1/8" stereo to RCA cable for sound, and the Fosmon for VGA.

Firs toff, that little purple Fosmon thing pretty cheaply built. The cables that came with it all crapped out on me in short order, and all they do is lay around on my desk. Later on I was using a 6 foot VGA cable with a pin removed to allow my Compaq Deskpro to be attached. This device was only really good for 640x480p and updward, but I would sometimes manage to force it to use 320x200 or other wacky DOS resolutions by using a laptop computer with it - usually an NEC Versa M/75, P/75, or NanTan FMA9200D - because the LCD controllers on those cause the screen to fit into the Fosmon's window properly in "SimulScan" or "CRT+LCD" mode depending on the computer we're talking about.

On my desktops however, the Fosmon would cut off the right side of the screen or the outer edges, and getting it properly stretched out would not work. Odd since I was using a totally different setup years ago and it worked great till it burned out. It seems the problem with these new Chinese Composite to VGA converters is that they are oriented at MODERN PCs using 640x480 or better resolution , and so the chipsets are limited to that resolution or ghigher, nothing below that. The telltale was when I ran things like Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 in 640x480 or 800x600, I would get the full screen, then drop to DOS and you'd get the edges cut off unless it was a later era laptop that put out a more compatible VGA signal.

THe other problem with the Fosmon was that it looked VERY dim and had poor contrast in Composite, and no adjusting of colors ever worked right with it. In S-Video it looked a lot better but there was a lot of color bleed meaning you had to really turn down the colors. However, the most incredibly janky thing with this device was that it could use either the menu, or two small dip-switches in a square on the side to change between PAL, NTSC-M, or NTSC-J, and I think even SECAM. And the dip switches were broken out of the box a little bit, so sometimes it'd freak out for no reason because the left DIP was "floating" a little bit and the contact made it unreliable.

Toward the end I started having power issues with it both because the soldering inside must have been bad and my USB-to-Barrel Jack cables kept going bad. That's why I ultimately scrapped it recently because I was getting sick of it being so problematic.

So now I'm thinking of trying a more "direct" solution for VGA......

So has anyone used these 1080 generic VGA Frame grabbers with Audio in at all? I'm thinking this might be a great solution, but I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing here, or any possibility this is meant for higher resolutions like the Fosmon? I may still end up getting it anyway to experiment and pioreer, just wondering if anyone else has used this type of thing before.

Never tested the generic vga frame grabber, didnt even know there was one 😉 seems to cost around $60 and the example i can find on amazon is:

But the user uses vlc, and hard to understand how clean the picture is.

My self i have Startech VGA2HD2 and VGA2HDPRO2, but did only got VGA2HD2 to work with my old computer against elgato 4k dongle.

Cheapest way for capturing vga which is a example "FOINNEX VGA to HDMI Adapter" then a simple hdmi to usb capture dongle from amazon, getting good picture is sadly expensive i think, as i havent tested the "generic vga frame grabber" i cant say if it is good or not from the few pictures on amazon but think the quality is same as the cheap way i mention just built in to one device, would be nice to to see real pictures if some one has a dongle like that and if it supports all resolutions as 320x200/640x400 and 80x25/720x400.

Also note few vga till hdmi comes with new cheaper chip Macro Silicon ms928* chip which does not support the resolutions 320x200/640x400 and 80x25/720x400, older once uses the chip AG02-EX which work with low resolutions which "FOINNEX VGA to HDMI Adapter" uses at the moment but dont know for how long.

The Retrotink 4k received a pricetag now. Will be 750$.
I will still wait till Reviews for DOS are in and it's available in Europe. Probably dragonbox.de will offer it in germany. Hopefully that will be cheaper than shipping and importing it individually.

tabm0de wrote on 2023-11-16, 15:12:

Never tested the generic vga frame grabber, didnt even know there was one ;) seems to cost around $60 and the example i can find […]
Show full quote

creepingnet wrote on 2023-08-15, 20:36:

Well, my Fosmon VGA to Composite Converter just died, I figured I'd give a little review of it here and tell what's next. […]
Show full quote

Well, my Fosmon VGA to Composite Converter just died, I figured I'd give a little review of it here and tell what's next.

So my current setup is a late 2015 iMac 21.5" with a Amazon.com bought Composite/S-Video capture USB device, and I would feed my VGA machines into the composite device via a 1/8" stereo to RCA cable for sound, and the Fosmon for VGA.

Firs toff, that little purple Fosmon thing pretty cheaply built. The cables that came with it all crapped out on me in short order, and all they do is lay around on my desk. Later on I was using a 6 foot VGA cable with a pin removed to allow my Compaq Deskpro to be attached. This device was only really good for 640x480p and updward, but I would sometimes manage to force it to use 320x200 or other wacky DOS resolutions by using a laptop computer with it - usually an NEC Versa M/75, P/75, or NanTan FMA9200D - because the LCD controllers on those cause the screen to fit into the Fosmon's window properly in "SimulScan" or "CRT+LCD" mode depending on the computer we're talking about.

On my desktops however, the Fosmon would cut off the right side of the screen or the outer edges, and getting it properly stretched out would not work. Odd since I was using a totally different setup years ago and it worked great till it burned out. It seems the problem with these new Chinese Composite to VGA converters is that they are oriented at MODERN PCs using 640x480 or better resolution , and so the chipsets are limited to that resolution or ghigher, nothing below that. The telltale was when I ran things like Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 in 640x480 or 800x600, I would get the full screen, then drop to DOS and you'd get the edges cut off unless it was a later era laptop that put out a more compatible VGA signal.

THe other problem with the Fosmon was that it looked VERY dim and had poor contrast in Composite, and no adjusting of colors ever worked right with it. In S-Video it looked a lot better but there was a lot of color bleed meaning you had to really turn down the colors. However, the most incredibly janky thing with this device was that it could use either the menu, or two small dip-switches in a square on the side to change between PAL, NTSC-M, or NTSC-J, and I think even SECAM. And the dip switches were broken out of the box a little bit, so sometimes it'd freak out for no reason because the left DIP was "floating" a little bit and the contact made it unreliable.

Toward the end I started having power issues with it both because the soldering inside must have been bad and my USB-to-Barrel Jack cables kept going bad. That's why I ultimately scrapped it recently because I was getting sick of it being so problematic.

So now I'm thinking of trying a more "direct" solution for VGA......

So has anyone used these 1080 generic VGA Frame grabbers with Audio in at all? I'm thinking this might be a great solution, but I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing here, or any possibility this is meant for higher resolutions like the Fosmon? I may still end up getting it anyway to experiment and pioreer, just wondering if anyone else has used this type of thing before.

Never tested the generic vga frame grabber, didnt even know there was one 😉 seems to cost around $60 and the example i can find on amazon is:

But the user uses vlc, and hard to understand how clean the picture is.

My self i have Startech VGA2HD2 and VGA2HDPRO2, but did only got VGA2HD2 to work with my old computer against elgato 4k dongle.

Cheapest way for capturing vga which is a example "FOINNEX VGA to HDMI Adapter" then a simple hdmi to usb capture dongle from amazon, getting good picture is sadly expensive i think, as i havent tested the "generic vga frame grabber" i cant say if it is good or not from the few pictures on amazon but think the quality is same as the cheap way i mention just built in to one device, would be nice to to see real pictures if some one has a dongle like that and if it supports all resolutions as 320x200/640x400 and 80x25/720x400.

Also note few vga till hdmi comes with new cheaper chip Macro Silicon ms928* chip which does not support the resolutions 320x200/640x400 and 80x25/720x400, older once uses the chip AG02-EX which work with low resolutions which "FOINNEX VGA to HDMI Adapter" uses at the moment but dont know for how long.

Currently I'm running something a little different now. I'm using one of those generic white $6.45 units off of e-bay - the ones without the passthrough, and using it with my laptop computers, and it seems to do really well with 320x200 on most of my machines except the FMA3500C and the Compaq DeskPro 386s/20. I have not tried it on my 486 desktop yet, but if that works great, this could be really kickass for some Let's Plays on a computer that has an AWE-series card under the hood for sound and SVGA that's really screamin' fast (S3805 with 2MB VRAM). I did all of my #DOScember videos on my channel using that this year save for maybe a few of the earlier ones (mostly system profile videos) and it's done pretty well altogether. I did, howeve,r have to boost the audio output from my NEC Versa M/75 using a pair of powered speakers with a headphone jack though. But my FMAK9200 NanTan Laptop works incredibly great with this device. And the picture is great.