VOGONS


VGA Capture Thread

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Reply 780 of 830, by Master1UP

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@imi
Unfortunately not. Only buttons are "Resolution change", "Zoom" and "Auto adjust". There's usb port for updates but I haven't searched yet if it can be used to update the firmware or even where I could get the firmware from.
If I find any firmware updates and it makes a difference, I will post results. But for now this is where I am with it. I have been waiting months so I could stream some DOS gaming with friends so I'm fine with this now. I will continue searching and follow any new findings here.

@elianda
Yeah I have some adjusting to do before I stream. I "accidentally" resetted all my OBS settings and scenes so it's couple of days tinkering before I'm ready. I'm not sure if I can make the DOS background black as black without making everything else too dark but I will check on it when I have more time.

Reply 782 of 830, by appiah4

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That looks like the Gamma is way off, you need to correct black levels before it looks semi decent.

The MS-DOS and Larry screenshots tell me there is also a good deal of upscale filtering going on as well so you won't get a crisp pixel perfect image out of it, but as far as I am concerned I would be OK with this for recording games as long as it did not cost me an arm.

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Reply 783 of 830, by cvgl

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Hello

I would like to get an HDMI signal from my old IBM ValuePoint - 6382 computer

http://ps-2.kev009.com/pcpartnerinfo/ctstips/f02e.htm

There is an S3 graphics card on the motherboard. I bought a simple VGA-HDMI converter and of course the problems started. When i turn on my computer, the IBM logo and memory test appear on the TV (this is 640x480x60Hz). But when the DOS loading starts, the image goes out and the screen is black. The TV displays the message "no signal". The converter in the specification supports a resolution of 640x480 but it does not support and not work for DOS in 720x400x70Hz.

Everything is OK with direct connection from VGA to the same TV (the TV has a VGA input).

What converter could I buy that would correctly convert a VGA image from DOS games in 640x480x60, 640x350x70, 720x400x70 resolution? Ultimately, I want to connect it to the AverMedia card.

Reply 784 of 830, by MAZter

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What converter could I buy that would correctly convert a VGA image from DOS games in 640x480x60, 640x350x70, 720x400x70 resolution? Ultimately, I want to connect it to the AverMedia card.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Atlona-AT-HD500-VGA- … le/114191056310

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Reply 785 of 830, by cvgl

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MAZter wrote on 2020-04-18, 06:06:

Not support 720x400:

https://atlona.com/pdf/manuals/AT-HD500.pdf

page 8

Last edited by cvgl on 2020-04-18, 20:51. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 786 of 830, by ruthan

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BTW how 320x200 and 320x240 works, do you need specific support for them? Or they are automatically supported when 640x480? Or other resolutions are supported?

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Reply 788 of 830, by MAZter

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cvgl wrote on 2020-04-18, 06:28:

Not support 720x400:

https://atlona.com/pdf/manuals/AT-HD500.pdf

page 8

It supports input 720x400 without problem, I can't understand what any other kind of support necessary.

Manual says:

• Scales any VESA resolution from 640x480 up to 1920x1200 (or 1080p)

720x400 is vesa resolution, correct?

IMG-20200424-161108.jpg

Usually I setup output as "panscan" option, to save correct aspect ratio regardless of input resolution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOHNLioA-f0

Doom is what you want (c) MAZter

Reply 789 of 830, by elianda

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MAZter wrote on 2020-04-24, 20:13:

720x400 is vesa resolution, correct?

720x400 is not a VESA resolution as VESA just defines a 80x25 text mode, but no 720x400 graphics mode.

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Reply 791 of 830, by Orkay

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I recently got an AV.io HD to replace my Game Broadcaster HD, and so far I'm loving it. I can confirm that it supports a wide variety of video modes, including those you'd commonly expect in DOS programs. 320x200 VGA, EGA, CGA, the AwardBIOS POST screens, and even interlaced refresh rates coming from a Tseng Labs ET4000 at 1024x768... it seems this brick will just take it all without objection. I did have trouble getting 1920x1080 working right, but that might just have to do with the video cards I tried it with; 1920x1200 works perfectly fine, ironically enough. Sometimes you might have to reload a program once or more until the capture card correctly adjusts the image to fit within the frame, but generally speaking, it works beautifully. Of course, you could also use the native DVI input if your computer's video card supports it, and I'm pretty sure that will get rid of all of the readjustment hassles.

While setting the device resolution to 640x480 makes the most sense for recording from MS-DOS, it will conveniently scale up the image to whatever resolution you set it to without the need to go through extensive effort with some complex editing program. Setting it up is trivial; no drivers are required. Just pop open a capture program like OBS, add your device under Windows, Mac, or Linux, and it's ready to go! Make sure the AV.io HD is emitting a blue light; this indicates it's connected at USB 3.0 speed and will permit capturing video at 60FPS in very high resolutions.

This demo reel I recently uploaded should give you an idea of what it's capable of: https://vlare.tv/v/n5LPXX3F

If you want to know if this thing works with other video modes, just ask me and I'll get around to it if I have the time.

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Reply 792 of 830, by elianda

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The AV.io HD most likely is also supported by my alignment tool, as it is based on the same driver backend.

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Reply 793 of 830, by Bimmy

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cvgl wrote on 2020-04-17, 18:59:

What converter could I buy that would correctly convert a VGA image from DOS games in 640x480x60, 640x350x70, 720x400x70 resolution? Ultimately, I want to connect it to the AverMedia card.

I have been on the lookout for a similar converter and tried several of these cheap solutions (The dime-a-dozen black/white box type you can find everywhere on ebay/ali/amazon etc) None of those seem to support 720x400 70hz textmode until I came across this one at a local electronics store;

1NBZT7fl.png

It is made by Sanwa Supply (not to be confused with Sanwa Denshi of the arcade switches/buttons) and while it looks identical to the aforementioned dime-a-dozen bunch, this one actually says on the box that it supports 720x400 x 70hz and to my surprise was one of the only manufacturers who openly state all their supported modes on their packaging. The model number is VGA-CVHD2 and is reasonably priced at around 4000 yen or around 35 eur. They can be found on Amazon.co.jp.

Mine should arrive tomorrow and I will update after I've given it a shot 😀

Update:

I've tried the Sanwa Supply converter and this too wouldn't display anything before the OS (i.e. BIOS/POST/DOS etc..) Despite all the claims of the resolutions supported on the box.

However, another box that I had ordered along with it did turn out to work and it was the cheapest of the bunch! Lucky!

The monitor I'm using recognized the BIOS / POST resolution as 640x416 x 70hz rather than 720x400x70 which sounds hella weird but hey, that's what the monitor said, and it actually displayed, unlike all the other boxes.

The box that worked looks like this and cost me 999 yen or like 8-9 eur.

OXRoABel.png

Though even the one in the picture has a green audio jack on the side whereas mine is just a normal metal looking one.
I believe many of these are just reproductions from a lot of different manufacturers based on similar designs using a variety of components and materials...

My advice however is buy a bunch and try them, since they aren't always true to their claims on the packaging / product information.
Ideally from a store where you can get a refund for the ones that didn't work.

I'd really like to see a teardown on a bunch of these to identify what signal processor the good ones use, so people interested in getting them can know what to look out for.

Reply 794 of 830, by SquallStrife

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-04-17, 10:49:

That looks like the Gamma is way off, you need to correct black levels before it looks semi decent.

Probably not Gamma, rather the HDMI range, which is something that can (hopefully) be corrected in software.

HDMI signals designed for TVs, for some reason, have RGB values between 16-235, rather than 0-255. Usually in the capture software you can tell your capture card to compensate.

I have to do this when I'm capturing from my Startech VGA2HDMIPro scaler

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Reply 795 of 830, by Master1UP

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SquallStrife wrote on 2020-05-19, 02:00:
Probably not Gamma, rather the HDMI range, which is something that can (hopefully) be corrected in software. […]
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appiah4 wrote on 2020-04-17, 10:49:

That looks like the Gamma is way off, you need to correct black levels before it looks semi decent.

Probably not Gamma, rather the HDMI range, which is something that can (hopefully) be corrected in software.

HDMI signals designed for TVs, for some reason, have RGB values between 16-235, rather than 0-255. Usually in the capture software you can tell your capture card to compensate.

I have to do this when I'm capturing from my Startech VGA2HDMIPro scaler

You might be right. Actually I happened to bump into Gefen VGA-DVI Scaler Plus without power cable on ebay for reasonable price (about 30€) and the results are literally like night and day. I still have to adjust some settings before I stream but so far I'm 100% satisfied.
I contacted the seller about possible firmware updates for the chinese scaler but so far no reply. They told me they will contact the manufacturer about it but I don't think I will hear from them anymore. But anyways here's the comparison of the two.

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Last edited by Master1UP on 2020-05-20, 19:10. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 796 of 830, by cvgl

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ruthan wrote on 2020-04-18, 15:38:

BTW how 320x200 and 320x240 works, do you need specific support for them? Or they are automatically supported when 640x480? Or other resolutions are supported?

The converter must support DOS resolution (720x400) from my old computer (IBM 486) because if it will not support, there will be no image. It often happens that the converter recognizes the given resolution on a newer computer (e.g. Core2Duo) but does not recognize it on the old 486.

MAZter wrote on 2020-04-24, 20:13:

It supports input 720x400 without problem, I can't understand what any other kind of support necessary.

Will you give me a 100% guarantee that this converter will handle 720x400 from my old 486? And other resolutions? I'm not going to throw $ 500 in the trash. I tested probably from 10 different converters, only two are doing quite well (AverMedia ET110 and Spacetronik HDCVGA01) but also not quite because they do not display the image from some games or incorrectly recognize the basic resolutions, e.g. instead of 720x400 they recognize 724x456 etc.

Reply 797 of 830, by Bimmy

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cvgl wrote on 2020-05-19, 15:59:

Will you give me a 100% guarantee that this converter will handle 720x400 from my old 486? And other resolutions? I'm not going to throw $ 500 in the trash. I tested probably from 10 different converters, only two are doing quite well (AverMedia ET110 and Spacetronik HDCVGA01) but also not quite because they do not display the image from some games or incorrectly recognize the basic resolutions, e.g. instead of 720x400 they recognize 724x456 etc.

I'm not an expert on the matter (and by all means correct me if I'm wrong) but it looks like portions of the front and back porch of the video signal may be incorrectly interpreted by the capture / receiving device as visible screen resolution?

Reply 798 of 830, by Master1UP

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Master1UP wrote on 2020-05-19, 06:46:

You might be right. Actually I happened to bump into Gefen VGA-DVI Scaler Plus without power cable on ebay for reasonable price (about 30€) and the results are literally like night and day. I still have to adjust some settings before I stream but so far I'm 100% satisfied.
I contacted the seller about possible firmware updates for the chinese scaler but so far no reply. They told me they will contact the manufacturer about it but I don't think I will hear from them anymore. But anyways here's the comparison of the two.

Well lets put that somewhere around 50% satisfied. I finally tested my Gefen with a game and I might have faulty unit or is this something to be expected with this device? I tried many settings and adjustments, but I can't seem to do any visible difference.
Especially in the staircase you can see how the darks are brown and muddy and it loses most of the details. In bedroom scene the ceiling is losing most of the detail and stones next to the door are also brown and muddy.
Raising the brightness just brings "crawling ants" more visible on some colors. First I thought it's my cables but that's not the case. I tried many different combinations. Funny thing is that my Chinese scaler works with this game perfectly and it's not blurry like in windows and DOS. At least with this level of detail it doesn't look like it to the eye.
Staircase comparison is with camera because I can't capture yet both with same setup.
If anyone has any advice or can tell if my unit is definitely faulty, please let me know.
Model: EXT-VGA-2-DVISP (Gray)

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Reply 799 of 830, by vvbee

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A reminder to all. VCS, the third-party capture software for Datapath capture cards, is up to version 2.0 these days and has added support for Linux as well as implementing many other improvements over what was already a good version 1.0. Targeted especially toward analog retro capture. Free for personal and commercial use.

Also a reminder: second-hand Datapath cards together with VCS can give you professional-quality analog capture for as little as $30 if you also set up a capture box with PCI and Windows XP/7. In my experience, there isn't much if any difference in image quality between the older/cheaper and newer/pricier Datapath models for low-resolution analog capture.

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