VOGONS


First post, by Panties

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Hi all,

Okay, before I go all "MacGyver" and buy stuff over the Ebay, could result in doesn't/does work..... 🤣 🤣 I need to check with you guys..

1. Voodoo2 - I have Voodoo2 SLI original, they are super short Floppy cable. I have an old motherboard with 5 PCI and 3ISA.
Due to the make of the motherboard, the Processor (Socket 7) is blocking the path for Voodoo 2.
Therefore, I can only place my both Voodoo2, in saperate location, as below:-

PCI 1 -Voodoo2 - Fit in perfectly...
PCI 2 Can't insert voodoo2 because Processor Fan block at it's tail - Intel Network Card
PCI 3 Can't insert voodoo2 because Processor Fan block at it's tail - I put my ATI Rage II here, so that it has some ventalation between each card.
PCI 4 Can't insert voodoo2 because Processor Fan block at it's tail
PCI 5 Voodoo2 - Manage to bend just 2mm bend to fit in.
ISA1
ISA2
ISA3

Both of my Voodoo2 works perfectly fine, but now since I have separate them, I wanted to buy a Floppy Extender from Ebay. With the Floppy Extender, I can expand the length of the current SLI and it should work....

Floppy Extender Ebay Item :- http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/262490215919?_trks … K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

My Concerns are..
- Does my idea work? will it lag due to either 2 PCI are far away OR/AND Long SLI Cable? if performance drop by 5%-10%, I'm okay with it...
- In Win95, both my Voodoo2 work ,but SLI Not Detected.. that's why I plan to buy the Floppy Extender... what do you guys think? Does ATI Rage II is good or should I replace it with Trident or S3 video card?

2. This mother is a Pentium 1 200Mhz... Should I put in 2x2Voodoo2 or just purchase 1xVoodoo1 6MB ?
---> Yes, I am also aiming for DOS compatibility too...
My aim is to play Unreal Gold with 1024X768 but 800x600 will be fine....

Do appreciate any feedback/recommendation.. and any suggestion... 😀

Reply 1 of 31, by tayyare

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Floppy extender should work, though I have no real experience about that. Logically it should work, and no, there will be no lag.

"SLI is not detected" is not a good sign. Are your cards identical? Non identical Voodoo 2 cards sometimes work sometimes not (mostly not in my experience). Are you sure they are working well individually, when you put them in your system as single cards?

As far as I know, Voodoo SLI in a socket 7 system is more then overkill (will it even work?). You might just go with one, or consider a PII-PIII system.

GA-6VTXE PIII 1.4+512MB
Geforce4 Ti 4200 64MB
Diamond Monster 3D 12MB SLI
SB AWE64 PNP+32MB
120GB IDE Samsung/80GB IDE Seagate/146GB SCSI Compaq/73GB SCSI IBM
Adaptec AHA29160
3com 3C905B-TX
Gotek+CF Reader
MSDOS 6.22+Win 3.11/95 OSR2.1/98SE/ME/2000

Reply 2 of 31, by kanecvr

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Don't use a floppy extender. get a regular FDD cable and mod it into a SLi cable. This is done by opening one of the connectors and twisting a few wires. You can find out exactly how to do it online.

Doing it this way you can control exactly how long the cable is and elimiate the extra connectors, reducing lag between the two video cards. With the fdd extender there is a possibility of noticeable lag between the two cards.

Reply 3 of 31, by Deksor

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My pentium 2 has two voodoo 2 and I've put in between them the network card and it works without any issue.

However I don't think that you'll be able to play unreal at 800*600 resolution at nice speed (it will be playable thouh, but not something pleasant) on a pentium. Unreal runs at 1024*768 resolution on my pentium 2 but the framerate isn't always smooth (nothing lower than 40fps I guess though),but as I said I think it won't be good on that system

Trying to identify old hardware ? Visit The retro web - Project's thread The Retro Web project - a stason.org/TH99 alternative

Reply 4 of 31, by clueless1

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If you post a photo of your board you might be able to get some ideas on placing your Voodoo2s closer.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 5 of 31, by kanecvr

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Deksor wrote:

My pentium 2 has two voodoo 2 and I've put in between them the network card and it works without any issue.

However I don't think that you'll be able to play unreal at 800*600 resolution at nice speed (it will be playable thouh, but not something pleasant) on a pentium. Unreal runs at 1024*768 resolution on my pentium 2 but the framerate isn't always smooth (nothing lower than 40fps I guess though),but as I said I think it won't be good on that system

Yeah a P1 won't really take advantage of the second card. For good FPS (60) in unreal @ 1024x768 I'd recommend a fast P3.

Reply 6 of 31, by brostenen

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I have a homemade SLI cable, that I have used a couple of times in the past.
Works like a charm, and the only downside to it, are that it takes practice not to destroy the connectors on the floppy cable.

No SLI detected? Two different cards? Then install Fastvoodoo2 2.4 drivers and the overclock tool.
Start by enabling SLI and then clock the cards to 90mhz or 100mhz, depending on the V2 cards speed.
I have noticed that 90mhz cards are overclocked to 93 by default with the FastVoodoo drivers.
Better run them in stock speed, because of the age of the hardware.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
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Reply 7 of 31, by Panties

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kanecvr wrote:

Don't use a floppy extender. get a regular FDD cable and mod it into a SLi cable. This is done by opening one of the connectors and twisting a few wires. You can find out exactly how to do it online.

Doing it this way you can control exactly how long the cable is and elimiate the extra connectors, reducing lag between the two video cards. With the fdd extender there is a possibility of noticeable lag between the two cards.

brostenen wrote:
I have a homemade SLI cable, that I have used a couple of times in the past. Works like a charm, and the only downside to it, ar […]
Show full quote

I have a homemade SLI cable, that I have used a couple of times in the past.
Works like a charm, and the only downside to it, are that it takes practice not to destroy the connectors on the floppy cable.

No SLI detected? Two different cards? Then install Fastvoodoo2 2.4 drivers and the overclock tool.
Start by enabling SLI and then clock the cards to 90mhz or 100mhz, depending on the V2 cards speed.
I have noticed that 90mhz cards are overclocked to 93 by default with the FastVoodoo drivers.
Better run them in stock speed, because of the age of the hardware.

Hi kanecvr and brostenen,
well, I do not have IDC Clamp tool, nor do I have any Black IDE connectors. I never experience making my own floppy cable before. Th'at why I was aiming to get a floppy extender, in the first place. 😐
but you are right.. since the length is long, there will/could be noticeable lag between the two cards.... 😒 hmmm.....
Oh... FastVoodoo2 overclocked? ok.. I need to down clock it.... thanks for the heads-up... 😊

Deksor wrote:

My pentium 2 has two voodoo 2 and I've put in between them the network card and it works without any issue.

However I don't think that you'll be able to play unreal at 800*600 resolution at nice speed (it will be playable thouh, but not something pleasant) on a pentium. Unreal runs at 1024*768 resolution on my pentium 2 but the framerate isn't always smooth (nothing lower than 40fps I guess though),but as I said I think it won't be good on that system

tayyare wrote:

Floppy extender should work, though I have no real experience about that. Logically it should work, and no, there will be no lag.

"SLI is not detected" is not a good sign. Are your cards identical? Non identical Voodoo 2 cards sometimes work sometimes not (mostly not in my experience). Are you sure they are working well individually, when you put them in your system as single cards?

As far as I know, Voodoo SLI in a socket 7 system is more then overkill (will it even work?). You might just go with one, or consider a PII-PIII system.

Hi Deksor and tayyare..
Sorry for my poor english... my "SLI not detected" means, I have not connected both Voodoo2 SLI cable yet, because they are far apart. But I can assure you, they are working because when I take those 2 card and put into another machine and connected both with a short SLI cable, it shows "SLI Detected". 😀 😀

Also, thanks for highlighting "overkill". I tested the P1 with one Voodoo 2, and the performance is "below expectation". 😵
So... I am reconsidering the whole thing because it was laggy on Unreal Gold.

I decided to put a Voodoo 1 inside that P1 old board instead.... Voodoo 2 work well, but don't perform well on Pentium 1...

clueless1 wrote:

If you post a photo of your board you might be able to get some ideas on placing your Voodoo2s closer.

Hi clueless1,
I wanted to post photos, but after seeing the *not so good* performance with 1 Voodoo 2 card, I change my mind.. I'm just going to put Voodoo 1 in there instead.
It' cant do nor play well... I have Voodoo 1 lying around.... I'll put that instead... 😀

For Voodoo 1, Should I combo with ... S3 Virge? a Trident? or a ATI Rage II? 😕

Reply 8 of 31, by kanecvr

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You only need a standard floppy disk cable, a pair of scissors and a small tip straight screwdriver to make the cable. What you do is cut the fdd cable to the length you want. After that, you remove one of the connectors from the leftover cable with the small tip straight driver (carefully so you don't brake the clips). If you study a connector for a bit you will notice you can take it apart. First you remove the clip securing the cable by pusing two small plastic prongs - one on the left and one on the right. After that you can take the connector apart by removing the top part - this is done by pushing in two clips found on the sides of the connector with your screwdriver. After that you can remove the connector from the cable and put it on the piece you cut earlier.

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Here's a link with instructions from vogonswiki: http://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/How_to_ma … doo_2_SLI_cable

It's pretty easy to make.

Reply 9 of 31, by brostenen

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What I used, and found to be the most easy connectors to work with, was from old floppycables that have connectors for 5.25 drives too. It is those cables that have 3 or 4 different connectors on them. (not counting the one that goes into the FDD connector on the controller)
To remove the connector, you simply have to use a box cutter knife and gently prie the connector apart. (Do it gently, and it will work)

To clamp together, I used a piece of wood on both sides of the connector it self, to distribute the force, when clamping together, using a waterpump plier. A tool like this one.

papegoejetang.jpg

Just do it gentle, and inspect the connector for each millimeter when clamping together. Move the plier up and down the pieces of wood for each time you add force with the plier, and you are good. Too much force at one place, might shatter the connector and you will have to do it all over again. I know this is not the official way, it just happened to work for me.

For the "lagging" you are wondering about. Well.... I do not think the SLI cable transfers anything really vital. That said, I have no real clue on to how the technology is working, so I am only speculating on this. All I can say, is that a longer homemade SLI cable makes no difference other than it is longer.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 10 of 31, by kanecvr

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brostenen wrote:

I do not think the SLI cable transfers anything really vital.

Actually they do. If I remember correctly rendered image data from the second card is sent to the first card and outputted to it's VGA port. Laggy cables would at best cause tearing, at worst SLi would not work at all.

I still maintain that two V2 cards have no place in a Pentium 1 machine. You want at least a P2 @ 400 or a K6-III - preferably a 1GHz Pentium 3 or Athlon.

Reply 11 of 31, by brostenen

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True.... SLI needs more CPU power. Shure it can work, he will just not get full advantage at all.
For 166 to 233mhz Pentium-1 system's, a single V2 is enough.
Pentium-1 running at 60 to 166, a Voodoo1 will do nicely.

EDIT:
Well.... I am not really the one to be able to talk about anything that goes on in a SLI setup.
I do however know, were to use them and how to set them up.
So much technical information to learn out there in the wild.
There is a limit to how much one can absorb however. 🤣

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 12 of 31, by clueless1

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Phil did a crazy detailed analysis on Voodoo2 scaling in 2014:
http://www.philscomputerlab.com/voodoo-2-and- … ng-project.html
IIRC, (it's a 65 pg PDF), SLI starts becoming relevant in the 400-600Mhz range. Maybe a little slower for GLQuake. And a single V2 starts to come to life with the P2/K6-2.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 13 of 31, by chinny22

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Got a 10cm? SLI cable made from a old floppy cable and don't notice any lag.
I will shorten it one day but as its not causing any problems I'm in no rush.

I did exactly what kanecvr's picture says. Carefully removed the locking tabs on one of the connectors (I did snap 1 end, bit of glue fixed that)
Swap the pints round and pushed real hard so the "teeth" penetrated the cable. worked 1st time!

Reply 14 of 31, by Panties

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Hi kanecvr & brostenen & chinny22,
Ok,.. I study the digram kanecvr provided to me.. and follow whatever he says...

Well, I took an existing floppy IDE cable and I slowly do it, with sharp scissors, knife, plier(I dont have a water pump plier) and here's goes nothing... Bam...
I use this...
combination-plier-eu-L.jpg

I made my own SLI.. 😀 but I broke the Head of one of the Black connectors(right), I unintentionally applied too much pressure using my plier... 😒

MyUglySLIforVoodoo2.jpeg

It's not that great nor perfect..... but at least something.. & it WORKS! SLI DETECTED! THANKS GUYS!!! 🤣

But after testing the performance.. I decided to just go with Voodoo 1 for this P1 box.. But I will keep these Custom SLI for other retro builts..

Hi clueless1

This is my voodoo1 Card (I believe it is 4 MB card)...

MyVoodoo2.jpeg

and here's my P1 200Mhz Box:-
MyP1Motherboard.jpeg

So since now I am removing both Voodoo 2 out of it..... and putting 1 Voodoo1 inside...
Question:-
1. Im putting Voodoo1 at PCI slot 1 for fastest performance.. right? 😁
2. At my PCI Slot 3, that's my ATI rage II.... should I go for S3 Virge or Trident? or ATI RAGE II will be enough for 2D and 3D applications?

Do advice me... 🤣

Reply 15 of 31, by tayyare

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chinny22 wrote:
Got a 10cm? SLI cable made from a old floppy cable and don't notice any lag. I will shorten it one day but as its not causing an […]
Show full quote

Got a 10cm? SLI cable made from a old floppy cable and don't notice any lag.
I will shorten it one day but as its not causing any problems I'm in no rush.

I did exactly what kanecvr's picture says. Carefully removed the locking tabs on one of the connectors (I did snap 1 end, bit of glue fixed that)
Swap the pints round and pushed real hard so the "teeth" penetrated the cable. worked 1st time!

Nobody will notice any lag. We are talking about electric signals (electromagnetic waves), so practically we are talking about the speed of light. What lag exactly? 🤣

GA-6VTXE PIII 1.4+512MB
Geforce4 Ti 4200 64MB
Diamond Monster 3D 12MB SLI
SB AWE64 PNP+32MB
120GB IDE Samsung/80GB IDE Seagate/146GB SCSI Compaq/73GB SCSI IBM
Adaptec AHA29160
3com 3C905B-TX
Gotek+CF Reader
MSDOS 6.22+Win 3.11/95 OSR2.1/98SE/ME/2000

Reply 17 of 31, by clueless1

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Panties wrote:
So since now I am removing both Voodoo 2 out of it..... and putting 1 Voodoo1 inside... Question:- 1. Im putting Voodoo1 at PCI […]
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So since now I am removing both Voodoo 2 out of it..... and putting 1 Voodoo1 inside...
Question:-
1. Im putting Voodoo1 at PCI slot 1 for fastest performance.. right? 😁
2. At my PCI Slot 3, that's my ATI rage II.... should I go for S3 Virge or Trident? or ATI RAGE II will be enough for 2D and 3D applications?

Do advice me... 🤣

I don't think it matters which PCI slot you use for the V1.

Regarding your 2D card, I'd say it's between the Rage II and Virge. This is a DOS-only system, right? Do yourself a favor and download Phil's new DOS benchmark kit: http://www.philscomputerlab.com/dos-benchmark-pack.html It'll probably take 15 minutes to fully benchmark both the Rage II and Virge, then you'll have proof which is better than anyone's opinion. 😀 And you can share the results here for us to admire.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 18 of 31, by brostenen

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Nice to see you made you'r first SLI cable. Excellent.
Glad to have helped you with this.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 19 of 31, by brostenen

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After benching the cards.... Look at this too, in deciding what to use.

http://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

It is not all speed that matters, when we are talking about Dos cards.
Take the compatibility and the benchmark result and decide what's best for you.
Play as many games as you can come across too.
This will give you the best base for deciding. Speed vs. Comp. vs. Actual useage.

It's allways a work in progress, and can go on for months.
Personally, I have setteled with a couple of CL-5446 2mb cards.
I feel they give me the best of both compatibility and speed, without any special TSR's loaded.

Games I play:
- Epic pinball
- Pinball Fantasies
- Doom (all three dos versions)
- Duke3D
- Cannon Fodder
- Civilization
- Raptor
- Wolfenstein 3D
- Lotus3
- Lemmings

And then a lot of other games, that I don't remember right now.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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