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Voodoo 1 Problem, texture glitches.

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Reply 20 of 36, by PhilsComputerLab

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Had my V1 running with a 1 GHZ Pentium III for a project, as usual, Rage games Incoming and Expendable the textures get funky colours with 400 MHz+, but every other game was perfectly fine.

Abit BH6 motherboard.

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Reply 21 of 36, by mzry

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Four things I would try:

1. Run the 3dfx driver uninstaller from falconfly.de, then make sure to install the latest 3dfx reference drivers for it.
2. Make sure you have the MiniGL 1.49 (latest) in your Quake based games.
3. All video shadowing should also be completely disabled in the bios.
4. Make sure your pci latency is default in the bios.
5. If all else fails, reformat and reinstall windows.

(Forgive me if you have tried any of this, I did have a quick view through the thread. My reasoning behind doing a proper 3dfx uninstall is due to you having a Voodoo2 in the system before, which might have some lingering effects. Also making sure to use the MiniGL in case some of the drivers installed an unsupported Opengl ICD like Mesa or something. Turning off video bios shadowing is also good to do for 3dfx cards)

Reply 22 of 36, by Hellistor

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First off,

I didn't post here yesterday because I contacted the seller on ebay. He asked me to try a few more tricks that sadly didn't help.
He offered me a full refund, which I accepted. The card is now on it's way back to him.

The following information partains to testing done before contacting the seller.

F2bnp wrote:

Don't give up just yet. If the card works flawlessly on one system, then it is safe to assume that it is not broken. The fact that Tomb Raider 1 works flawlessly under DOS as well, means that your Voodoo1 is alive and kicking 😀.

Well, as it turns out even the IBM had some issues, they were only less noticeable. For example, when leaving a race in NFS IISE and going back to the menu, the race time screen shows corruption 100% of the time, across all three systems. I also checked Tomb Raider again. There is some faint texture glitching going on that I overlooked earlier.

I think the card freaks out when other expansion cards are installed.
The IBM probably had the least issues because the 2D and Sound are onboard.
In DOS it probably seemed to work because the cards are not doing anything. In both other PCs the card has less glitches when no cards are installed. However they never fully go away as it turned out.

This still means though that the card is unusable, since the 2D card at the very least is necessary. Not to mention the soundcard, ethernet card and USB card I planned on using.

To answer your questions:

F2bnp wrote:

Let's take a look at it once more. First off, I'd like you to list the system specs for all 3 systems you tried the card on in detail, like you did in the first post. Secondly, you may want to compare BIOS options and see if they differ between the system that works properly and the other two.

The system specs are as follows:

First PC:

CPU: Intel Pentium II 266MHz "Katmai"
Mainboard: Asus P2L97 Rev 2.05 Intel 440LX chipset
RAM: Two 128MB sticks of PC133 SDRAM running at 66MHz
Primary Graphics card: S3 Trio64V+ (also tried a Diamond Viper V550 Riva TNT)
3D accelerator: Guillemot Maxi Gamer 3D, Voodoo 1 Chipset, Reference Design.
HDD: 20GB Seagate IDE
PSU: 350 Watt, don't know the brand right now, also tested another one
Sound Cards: Soundblaster Live!, Soundblaster 16C, Terratec 128i PCI (for troubleshooting, not at the same time ofc.)

IBM 300PL:
CPU: Intel Pentium II 266MHz "Katmai"
Motherboard: Intel 440BX based Motherboard
RAM: Two 128MB sticks of PC133 SDRAM running at 66MHz
Primary Graphics card: S3 Trio3D Onboard
3D accelerator: Guillemot Maxi Gamer 3D, Voodoo 1 Chipset, Reference Design.
Sound: Onboard Crystal 4236
Networking: Onboard 10/100 ethernet controller
HDD: 13GB Seagate
CD Drive: Compaq CRD-8400B
Floppy Drive: Alps 3 1/2' 1.44MB

Third PC:

CPU: Intel Pentium II 266MHz "Katmai"
Motherboard: ABIT BX6 REV 2.0, Intel 440BX Chipset
RAM: One 256MB Stick of PC133 Ram at 66MHz
Graphics: Asus AGP v3800/32m TV (Nvidia Riva TNT2)
Soundcard: Soundblaster Live! CT4670
Networking: 3Com 10/100 PCI NIC
USB: NEC USB 2.0 Card
HDD: Maxtor 80GB IDE HDD
Disc Drive: LG CD-RW Drive
Floppy Drive: 3,5' 1.44MB Floppy Drive

F2bnp wrote:

I have two plausible culprits in mind, two options named:

-Spread Spectrum
-PCI Delayed Transaction (or just Delayed Transaction)

The first PC does not have either of those options in the BIOS.
The IBM does not have either of those options in BIOS.
The third PC has Spread Spectrum Modulation, it is set to disabled.

F2bnp wrote:

In any case, before you start testing again, I suggest removing sound cards and any other extraneous cards that might cause conflicts. Also, from now on, use the driver that worked for you on the working system.

I tried all systems above with several different driver versions, with different combinations of expansion cards, no cards at all (besides 2D), with different RAM, with different soundcards, and I tried all PCI slots. I also checked and tried all PCI and FSB related settings in the BIOS. Furthermore I tried a new Windows install on the First PC, it changed nothing. All systems work perfectly with a Voodoo 2 as well.

FFXIhealer wrote:

I would like to add to all the suggestions here..... check the FSB of the MBs that are having issues. Your IBM PC with the 550MHz Pentium III... tells me it's running at a 100MHz FSB. I'm sure the system has been configured with a 3:1 PCI clock divider to keep it at 33MHz - the way it's supposed to be. But some people will overclock stuff in a manner that changes the PCI clock timing - which can throw off very sensitive PCI cards that aren't built for that speed increase.

I used the same 266MHz Pentium II "Katmai" CPU in all three systems. I apologize if I didn't mention that.
I'm aware that the Voodoo 1 dislikes higher FSBs

FFXIhealer wrote:

I know we're trying to nit-pick and you're getting very frustrated. Just take a deep breath and put it aside for a day and not think about it. Come back to it tomorrow. And just think....the harder the problem is to solve, the sweeter it will taste once you figure it out and get it fixed. I know that was the case with me doing a 200MHz Pentium build with that motherboard I had never used. I had to use a drive overlay to get the 20GB HDD to work - ending up installing Windows 95 some 4 times before I was happy with everything. It also has a Voodoo2 card inside and it works properly, but I don't have a VGA passthrough cable yet. I'm working on it - I just don't want to spend a lot of money.

I know what you mean, but I currently do not have much time.

You could keep a lookout for VGA extension cables. Those are pretty easy to find at flea markets and some computer shops have them laying around. You can use them as they are, although the signal quality will degrade if it's long. I simply took one of those, chopped off some length and soldered it back together. It's not pretty, but it works and the 2D quality is only slightly worse than an original Voodoo cable.

meljor wrote:

So, the p2-266mhz should give no troubles but a p3-550 can be too fast for a voodoo1, certainly with some games. Try the card in a pentium1 system, it should be completely trouble free.

I figured that as well, since this card in particular was made after the Pentium 2 came out. I have not used the P3-550 in my testing.
I transferred the P2 266 and the Voodoo to all test systems to keep the 66MHz FSB and to eliminate that variable.

EDIT: Oops, I didn't see there was a second page of replies. Here we go:

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

Had my V1 running with a 1 GHZ Pentium III for a project, as usual, Rage games Incoming and Expendable the textures get funky colours with 400 MHz+, but every other game was perfectly fine.

Abit BH6 motherboard.

Now that's crazy! How well did it scale?

mzry wrote:
Four things I would try: […]
Show full quote

Four things I would try:

1. Run the 3dfx driver uninstaller from falconfly.de, then make sure to install the latest 3dfx reference drivers for it.
2. Make sure you have the MiniGL 1.49 (latest) in your Quake based games.
3. All video shadowing should also be completely disabled in the bios.
4. Make sure your pci latency is default in the bios.
5. If all else fails, reformat and reinstall windows.

(Forgive me if you have tried any of this, I did have a quick view through the thread. My reasoning behind doing a proper 3dfx uninstall is due to you having a Voodoo2 in the system before, which might have some lingering effects. Also making sure to use the MiniGL in case some of the drivers installed an unsupported Opengl ICD like Mesa or something. Turning off video bios shadowing is also good to do for 3dfx cards)

The IBM that had the V2 installed before was actually the one that worked best.
It also doesn't matter what game engine is used. Some form of curruption appeared in all games.
I tried the systems with both video shadowing on or off. No difference.
PCI latency was set to default. I also tried several different settings. No difference.
Even with a fresh install of Windows 98 the problems persisted.

I forgive you! 🤣

I want to thank you all for your help! I greatly appreciate it!

Dual 1GHz Pentium III machine
700MHz Pentium III machine
550MHz PIII IBM 300PL
Socket 7 machine, CPU yet undecided
100MHz AMD 486DX4 machine

Reply 24 of 36, by Jade Falcon

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Voodoo1 can be very picky with pci bus setting and drivers.
Try a 3rd party driver from 3dfxzone.it and be sure your pci bus is at 33mhz.

These problems are not do to the speed of your CPU or fsb but driver/pci bus speeds. I had a voodoo1 in a Athlon64x2 system before and it was fine. Same with p4 and 1g.4ghz p3 setups.

Edit
Oh sucks that you sent it back.

Reply 25 of 36, by Hellistor

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Jade Falcon wrote:
Voodoo1 can be very picky with pci bus setting and drivers. Try a 3rd party driver from 3dfxzone.it and be sure your pci bus is […]
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Voodoo1 can be very picky with pci bus setting and drivers.
Try a 3rd party driver from 3dfxzone.it and be sure your pci bus is at 33mhz.

These problems are not do to the speed of your CPU or fsb but driver/pci bus speeds. I had a voodoo1 in a Athlon64x2 system before and it was fine. Same with p4 and 1g.4ghz p3 setups.

Edit
Oh sucks that you sent it back.

I tried all PCI settings possible, it made no difference. I tried the original Guillemot Maxi Gamer 3D driver, the Diamond Monster 3D driver, the driver included in Windows 98SE, the latest reference Driver and the Iceman V3.01.01 drivers that Phil recommended. They all had the same texture corruption.

Well it doesn't suck that I sent it back, I'm glad that I could.

Dual 1GHz Pentium III machine
700MHz Pentium III machine
550MHz PIII IBM 300PL
Socket 7 machine, CPU yet undecided
100MHz AMD 486DX4 machine

Reply 26 of 36, by Hellistor

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Well,
I hoped I wouldn't have to post here again, but I figured you'd appreciate an update.

Here is everything as it happened.

I ordered the first Guillemot Maxi Gamer 3D, it arrived, it was broken, I sent it back.

In the time from then until now, I have gotten two more Voodoo 1 cards. They all have the same issue.

Either this is some cruel joke that fate is playing on me or I have the luck to get three cards in a row that are broken.
I have tried the cards in several more systems and nothing changed.

I tried them in 5 different motherboards with different CPUs, primary graphics cards, sound cards, PSUs, RAM, etc. I tried Windows 95, I tried cooling them, I tried all BIOS settings I could. Nothing helped.

They nearly work when no cards besides 2D video and the Voodoo are in the system. The only game that has 100% reproducable issues then is NFS 2SE.
As soon as I add a PCI card, be it a sound card ethernet card, usb card and so on the issues get worse.

My previous suspicion that it's a RAM issue that is affected by the PCI bus seems to hold true.

If you guys have any ideas about what I could still try I'd appreciate it. I have time to try out your suggestions in the next few days.

Dual 1GHz Pentium III machine
700MHz Pentium III machine
550MHz PIII IBM 300PL
Socket 7 machine, CPU yet undecided
100MHz AMD 486DX4 machine

Reply 27 of 36, by Imperious

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Having the exact same issue with 3 cards in a row is massively unlikely.

I assume You have tried another VGA cable?
How about trying an LCD monitor?

This is becoming one of those situations where the solution will be whatever is the only thing You haven't tried, no matter how
impossible it might seem.

Atari 2600, TI994a, Vic20, c64, ZX Spectrum 128, Amstrad CPC464, Atari 65XE, Commodore Plus/4, Amiga 500
PC's from XT 8088, 486, Pentium MMX, K6, Athlon, P3, P4, 775, to current Ryzen 2600.

Reply 28 of 36, by Hellistor

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Imperious wrote:
Having the exact same issue with 3 cards in a row is massively unlikely. […]
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Having the exact same issue with 3 cards in a row is massively unlikely.

I assume You have tried another VGA cable?
How about trying an LCD monitor?

This is becoming one of those situations where the solution will be whatever is the only thing You haven't tried, no matter how
impossible it might seem.

I am quite aware of that, which is why this whole situation is so annoying to me.
But what is more likely, three Voodoo 1 cards with the same reference board design having a common defect after ~20 years or five different motherboards, which work perfectly with any other hardware, being broken?

While I didn't think of trying another VGA cable before I have given it a try now.
More specifically, I tried a different loop cable, different VGA cable and a different CRT monitor. No changes whatsoever.

To be honest I don't see how an LCD would make any difference. The image itself is broken. Be it the 2D menus or the corruption ingame. If it was the monitor I think it would present itself differently.

Nonetheless, thank you for the help!

Dual 1GHz Pentium III machine
700MHz Pentium III machine
550MHz PIII IBM 300PL
Socket 7 machine, CPU yet undecided
100MHz AMD 486DX4 machine

Reply 29 of 36, by meljor

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Sometimes a card doen't work and no damage can be found. Too bad, that's electronics....

But MOST vooodoo1 and 2 cards i've seen (quit a few) that had a problem had some form of physical damage. Missing components or damaged legs on the chips, creating a short or some other fault.
Sometimes big scratches on the pcb.

I never had a voodoo1 or 2 that did what your THREE cards do. Yes, i have seen one with artifacts but it did it in every single game and it simply had bad memory. Also had cards that gave black screens when using 3d (i called them dead) and now have one that only gives grayscales and red but every other color is missing (problem most likely found and will be fixed).

I also have 8 working v1 cards right now. So the chance that you buy 3 that have this same defect is really very unlikely. And i agree, 5 different motherboards will also not have the same problem!

So keep digging, there has to be a solution.

asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1

Reply 30 of 36, by Hellistor

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meljor wrote:

Sometimes a card doen't work and no damage can be found. Too bad, that's electronics....

But MOST vooodoo1 and 2 cards i've seen (quit a few) that had a problem had some form of physical damage. Missing components or damaged legs on the chips, creating a short or some other fault.
Sometimes big scratches on the pcb.

I inspected each of the cards for damage, I couldn't find any. The second one had a slightly bent leg on one of the chips but it wasn't actually making contact. I bent it back just to be safe.

meljor wrote:

I never had a voodoo1 or 2 that did what your THREE cards do. Yes, i have seen one with artifacts but it did it in every single game and it simply had bad memory. Also had cards that gave black screens when using 3d (i called them dead) and now have one that only gives grayscales and red but every other color is missing (problem most likely found and will be fixed).

Well it does affect every game. It just seems to affect some more than others. NFS2SE is the one that seems most affected. The others do show the problem but not always.

meljor wrote:

I also have 8 working v1 cards right now. So the chance that you buy 3 that have this same defect is really very unlikely. And i agree, 5 different motherboards will also not have the same problem!

So keep digging, there has to be a solution.

It's overall a weird situation. I can't find any reason why these cards won't work. Every single component has been switched for another one several times.

Dual 1GHz Pentium III machine
700MHz Pentium III machine
550MHz PIII IBM 300PL
Socket 7 machine, CPU yet undecided
100MHz AMD 486DX4 machine

Reply 31 of 36, by Imperious

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Hellistor wrote:
I am quite aware of that, which is why this whole situation is so annoying to me. But what is more likely, three Voodoo 1 cards […]
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I am quite aware of that, which is why this whole situation is so annoying to me.
But what is more likely, three Voodoo 1 cards with the same reference board design having a common defect after ~20 years or five different motherboards, which work perfectly with any other hardware, being broken?

While I didn't think of trying another VGA cable before I have given it a try now.
More specifically, I tried a different loop cable, different VGA cable and a different CRT monitor. No changes whatsoever.

To be honest I don't see how an LCD would make any difference. The image itself is broken. Be it the 2D menus or the corruption ingame. If it was the monitor I think it would present itself differently.

Nonetheless, thank you for the help!

Clutching at straws is the reason I mentioned the monitor. Only real possibility there is some issue with the cable. It's highly unlikely any of the monitor circuit would cause that.

Atari 2600, TI994a, Vic20, c64, ZX Spectrum 128, Amstrad CPC464, Atari 65XE, Commodore Plus/4, Amiga 500
PC's from XT 8088, 486, Pentium MMX, K6, Athlon, P3, P4, 775, to current Ryzen 2600.

Reply 32 of 36, by dr.zeissler

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Cards with higher than 4 MB are a trade-off: they have somewhat higher compatibility to later games, but lose some compatibility with first generation titles. 6 MB versions only have more texture memory and are therefore still limited to 640x480; 8 MB boards are able to show 800x600 resolutions due to extra framebuffer memory. Both offer somewhat smoother frame rates in games with more texture memory usage, such as Unreal and Quake 2.

I have some problems with my diamond voodoo1 card. I am using the latest official driver for win95. Unreal shows some strange texture-glites but the framerate is quite ok.
First I will check the original driver for the diamond-card. if this does not help, i will go for another card. I can use my 6MB voodoo1-card with the special svga-cable.

I have installed 3dcc, so I can choose whot card is visable/usable for D3D. If I choose the voodoo1 I also get glitches in DungeonKeeper D3D. The glitches are gone, if I choose the
Matrox G200. Beside that, the MatroxM3D does not support D3D?, if I choose it, the screen gets dark anbd nothing happens. I love the picture-quality of the matrox m3D, but there
are only a view titles that support it. Some have other strange issues (q2 permanently soundstuttering), others have weired performance-issues. Turok1 has some strange slowdowns.

Doc

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 33 of 36, by Parni

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I had similar problem with Diamond 4mb Voodoo1, however the textire glitches was a bit different looking. I disabled all video caching from BIOS and that solved the problem.

Reply 34 of 36, by marxveix

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I say something similar with voodoo2 12mb, i had it and it hang and had artifacts, solution was to underclock memory from 90Mhz to 85MHz and everything worked from that moment on, it still works.

Use older driver, driver that support 486 and K5 cpus, for me the old voodoo1 drivers are the best. If 3dfx games work in dos, then it probably will work in windows 9x somehow also.

Reply 35 of 36, by Parni

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Correction to my previous post, the problem was NOT with my BIOS setting after all. The problem was with my VGA cable, at first there are not glitches, but after playing Quake for couple of minutes the display started first show some waviness and then came the texture problems. So I located the problem to my VGA cable, with a new cable no problems even if I play hours. Strange thing how a defected cable initially work but then start to accumulate distortions.

Reply 36 of 36, by Hellistor

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Hello everyone,

I basically took a break from retro computing for the last four years or so. Mostly just keeping the working machines running, occasionally playing some games.
An HDD failure in my main Dual PIII WIN98SE machine cause me to get back into it. Thanks for the replies in the thread since then!

After looking through my hardware I was still feeling some disappointment from seeing those Voodoo 1s unused. So I got a computer with a Gigabyte GA-6BXS motherboard with 440BX chipset out the cellar, stuck a 400MHz PII, Riva TNT2, Soundblaster Live!, Soundblaster 16, Voodoo 1, and a network card in it. I installed WIN98SE, installed the drivers, and then tried the hardware.

And it works. It literally just works. No Todd Howard shenanigans here. I can't believe it... 😒

I then performed a sanity check by getting out my Asus P2L97 Motherboard with 440LX chipset and a 266MHz PII. Used the exact same hardware as the working config above. Fresh install on a different HDD
And I got the exact same errors as four years ago. Tried some of the potential fixes in this thread, nothing worked. Stuck the GA-6BXS back in there, works perfectly.

I have no clue what's going on at this point. I tried so many motherboards back then, all had SOME graphical glitches. The V1 worked best with as few cards in the system as possible but with the Gigabyte board it doesn't seem to make a difference. Seems like this board is gonna be my dedicated Voodoo 1 motherboard, although I wish it wasn't. It's a very nice 440BX motherboard with onboard SCSI. Ideally I would have liked to put a 550 or maybe 700MHZ PIII in there with a TNT2 Ultra or maybe a Kyro II or Rage Fury MAXX. Something with a bit more Oomph for using in LAN parties. I'll try out some different graphics cards to see if I can raise the performance of the machine while keeping the 400MHz PII for compatibility with the Vooodoo. I'd imagine a GeForce with T&L engine might take some load off the CPU.

I also got another 440BX board in the cellar, I'll try that with the second Vooodoo 1 I have. I'd love to get both working.

Dual 1GHz Pentium III machine
700MHz Pentium III machine
550MHz PIII IBM 300PL
Socket 7 machine, CPU yet undecided
100MHz AMD 486DX4 machine