VOGONS


Table Fog & 8-bit Paletted Textures

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Reply 120 of 122, by Joseph_Joestar

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vorob wrote on 2021-11-19, 11:32:

I've installed Catalyst 10.2. I'll try 7.xx driver but it can be tricky since it's a laptop card and such old driver maybe won't work even with modding.

No problem, it was sufficient to see how the fog looks under WinXP. This confirms what the TTLG forum people have been saying, table fog renders correctly on ATi cards under WinXP when drivers 7.11 or newer are used.

From what I can see in your screenshot, ATi's fog rendering under WinXP perfectly matches the 3DFX, Nvidia and Matrox cards. This is significantly better than what can be achieved using registry tweaks under Win98.

I don't understand. If FFVIII has dirty interface it means card is not displaying 8-bit palette colors properly, right?

Yes, that's the direct result of not having 8-bit paletted texture support.

But Thief works perfectly.

The stars in Thief do not use paletted textures. According to TTLG forums, they are always missing on Nvidia hardware, but that's a separate issue. I've already confirmed that the stars render correctly even on cards which don't support paletted textures, such as my Matrox G400, so it's no surprise that they show up fine on ATi as well.

And other games from my list on nvworld.ru work perfectly.

It's best not to assume that a game uses paletted textures unless you see it specifically mentioned in the game options, or somewhere in its manual and readme file, or in an external config program. So far, Final Fantasy 7 (unpatched), Final Fantasy 8 and Forsaken are known games where we have clear confirmation that paletted textures are used. Also, with regards to paletted texture support, a distinction needs to be made between the following categories:

  • Category 1 - games that simply won't run in 3D accelerated mode on cards without paletted texture support. Example: unpatched Final Fantasy 7
  • Category 2 - games which do run in 3D accelerated mode on cards without paletted texture support, but have visual distortions as a result. Example: Final Fantasy 8
  • Category 3 - games where paletted textures are an optional feature which can be used on cards that support it, but the rendering engine can utilize other texture formats as a substitute on cards which don't support paletted textures. Example: Forsaken

Most games on your list probably belong to categories 2 and 3.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 121 of 122, by Kahenraz

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I wonder if there are also color anomalies in FF7 but they are of such low resolution to be indistinguishable. They may have originally been meant as a performance optimization that ended up as a casualty in FF8 if it is in fact responsible for color problem.

Textures were used sparingly throughout FF7 when compared with FF8 for things like interface elements and polygon surfaces.

Reply 122 of 122, by Joseph_Joestar

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Kahenraz wrote on 2021-11-19, 22:09:

I wonder if there are also color anomalies in FF7 but they are of such low resolution to be indistinguishable. They may have originally been meant as a performance optimization that ended up as a casualty in FF8 if it is in fact responsible for color problem.

Perhaps there are some parts of FF7 (not necessarily tied to the UI) where the lack of paletted textures makes a visible difference as well, and we just haven't found them yet.

Likewise, it's possible that the menu in FF8 is not the only place where such differences are present. It was just the one instance which particularly stood out for me.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium