Geforce4MX?

leileilol wrote:

Geforce4MX?

A GF2 GTS is quite a bit faster than the GF4 MX.

But that aside, if you want a GTS, then get one instead of an equivalent. There are plenty on ebay for cheap, the Asus V7700 for example.

Yeah, I always hunt for them on eBay. Unforunately at the moment there are only 5 listings and they're all pricy or don't guarantee shipping to my country. I assume there's maybe another site where I can find one?

Depends on where you are from (can't mind-read, so... 😉 ).

PKFreeZZy where do you live?

derSammler wrote:

leileilol wrote:

Geforce4MX?

A GF2 GTS is quite a bit faster than the GF4 MX.

Actually not true...the GF4 MX440 is somewhat faster than the GTS, and beats the GF3 in some benchmarks too.

Fillrate of GF2 GTS: 1600 MT/s. (Ti and Ultra even do 2000 MT/s.)
Fillrate of GF4 MX: 1200 MT/s. (MX 460 - the fastest one)

While the core clock of the GF4 MX is higher, the card isn't faster. The name was misleading anyway, as the GeForce 4 MX wasn't really a GeForce 4 card. They were actually updated GeForce 2 cards.

Yes 4MX is better than GTS. Significantly improved memory efficiency.

sprcorreia wrote:

PKFreeZZy where do you live?

I live in Romania.

I think GF4 MX has the same upgraded S3TC/DXT1 support (dithering) that GF4 Ti has. That is certainly worthwhile because that texture compression looks awful on older GeForce cards.

I distinctly remember that GeForce 2 GTS was better option than GeForce 4MX. Polygon fill rate etc aside, on the former you could get realistic water in Morrowind, and on the latter you could not. I am not sure, but there was something about the shader functionality that has been cut off. I think that GeForce 3 might be a better option than 4MX.

EDIT: Found the quote:

- Pixel Shaders (GeForce3 and above, but not GeForce4 MX) If you have a GeForce3 or above, turn Pixel Shaders on for spectacular water effects. This is done by double clicking the Morrowind icon, and in the initial launcher menu, selecting Options. If the option for Pixel Shading is grayed out then your graphics card doesn't support this feature, as it's a hardware-based feature, there's no "software hack" to enable it.

Perhaps I am mistaken and this was not available on GF2. I have a niggling feeling that high-end GF2 could be used. Perhaps someone with the actual cards could confirm?

You are misremembering things. GeForce 2 and GF4MX are both DX7-level cards, where as GF3 and GF4 Ti are DX8-level cards. The GF4MX cards can actually be faster than the fastest GF2 cards. The MX420 is a cutdown version, but both the MX440 and MX460 are very competitive in terms of performance, even when compared to a GeForce 3 Ti 200 (which they often match/surpass) or Ti 500.

Phil made a video on the MX460 a while ago, but the MX440 is not that far off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qWvc94DjJE

The realistic water in Morrowind requires Pixel Shader support, a feature introduced in DX8.

Under normal conditions, yes, they WOULD be faster than the GF2 series, but Phil's new benchmarks prove the fact that later drivers are actually slower. I can say myself this is true, as I have run both versions 8 and 45.23 and the difference was indeed very measurable, although it was on a weak motherboard with a weak Pentium II.

They may be faster in terms of eye candy features at higher resolutions and color depths but I'm the type of guy who doesn't mind. I'm actually very fond of rough polygons.

I don't own a GF4 MX card to disprove them being faster, but if they are under normal conditions they should be slower than the entire GF2 series except the MX200.

I will not debate whether or not 640x480 vs 1024x768 and higher is really "eye candy features", but I can see where you are coming from.

In that case, you could take a look at amibay.com. I just went through a quick look and there's someone selling a GeForce 3 Ti200 for 10 pounds.
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?96671-GeForce-AGP-cards

That card should be just as fast as the one you had, especially with that slow CPU. I also found this card on Eletromyne which seems to be a generic GeForce2 (not an MX) for pretty cheap, you can even use Phil's discount code to get it for even less.

By the way, what's up with the GeForce4 MX4000? I personally have no idea what it is. It sometimes pops up but I don't know whether it's another NV chip or just a misconception. Same with the GeForce2 MX100.

These are usually 64bit bus MX420s AFAIR. Avoid them at all costs I guess.

I don't recall what the MX100 is exactly, perhaps it's identical to the MX200 or even slightly worse?

GF3/4Ti also gets you EMBM support. Exciting new game opportunities like bump mapped Battlezone 2 and Dungeon Keeper 2.

MX4000 is a 64 bit MX420 like thing indeed. They were a cheap retail favorite for years.

MX100/200 would be its predecessor. Like the TNT2 M64 or Vanta.

F2bnp wrote:

You are misremembering things. GeForce 2 and GF4MX are both DX7-level cards, where as GF3 and GF4 Ti are DX8-level cards. The GF4MX cards can actually be faster than the fastest GF2 cards. The MX420 is a cutdown version, but both the MX440 and MX460 are very competitive in terms of performance, even when compared to a GeForce 3 Ti 200 (which they often match/surpass) or Ti 500.
[...]
The realistic water in Morrowind requires Pixel Shader support, a feature introduced in DX8.

Thanks, you are indeed right. Funny thing, memory. I stand corrected.

MX 420 64-bit DDR = GeForce 2 MX 400 SDR 128-bit bus with Z-compression, multisampling and occlusion culling.