VOGONS


First post, by ruthan

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Hello,
i tried to search to pure Dos glide driver/ wrapper for no 3Dfx cards, but i didnt anything, it seems that all solution are Windows based and running at the best in Windows Dosbox, im right?

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 1 of 10, by BeginnerGuy

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I've never heard of a Glide wrapper for DOS. The system requirements alone would bring me to expect the system would have 9x or later on it as even some of the earliest glide wrappers I'm aware of used mmx extensions.

Not a definitive reply ofc, just tossing in my skepticism 😜

Sup. I like computers. Are you a computer?

Reply 2 of 10, by derSammler

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To what would it wrap the Glide commands anyway? There's no DirectX or OpenGL in DOS, so this wouldn't really work.

Reply 3 of 10, by The Serpent Rider

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To what would it wrap the Glide commands anyway?

*chuckles* S3D API

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 4 of 10, by BeginnerGuy

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The Serpent Rider wrote:

To what would it wrap the Glide commands anyway?

*chuckles* S3D API

Nonsense, real men would do this in software.

edit: in 386 assembler as well, none of that wimpy C + inline

Sup. I like computers. Are you a computer?

Reply 5 of 10, by Stiletto

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There's no universal 3D API for DOS. Most "OpenGL for DOS" only provide software rendering, and of course there's no Direct3D for DOS.

One exception to this is MESA for DOS, which you can maybe think of as an OpenGL replacement. However all hardware acceleration drivers for MESA are really old and only found in really old versions of MESA. They only included 3Dfx Glide 2 (Voodoo Graphics/Voodoo 2), Matrox MGA, ATI Radeon 128 (Rage Fury, XPERT 99, and XPERT 128), S3 Savage, Via Unichrome, SiS GPUs, 3Dlabs gamma, Intel i810 (early Intel 8xx series IGPs), ATI Mach64 during that time period that they still were working on Mesa for DOS. And MESA was for other operating systems too: not all of these drivers supported DOS.

So if you had a version of MESA for DOS, and compiled it with all available hardware acceleration support, you might be able to write a Glide wrapper for pure DOS. But it would only support an ancient videocard. Also, in my experience, the hardware supported by MESA were only videocards which had DOS support already through a proprietary 3D API, and all MESA's hardware acceleration drivers did was wrap those proprietary 3D APIs to their OpenGL-like API.

So... you'll still be restricted to videocards that *already* have MS-DOS 3D acceleration support. So if you're going to do this anyhow, you may as well wrap directly to those APIs. For a list of these cards, (more or less) see vetz's list of proprietary 3D APIs. 3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)

All that said, someone could certainly write a Glide -> Mesa for DOS wrapper in theory, but the best you'd have on modern cards is software rendering. Unless it were possible to write *brand new* DOS drivers for modern hardware for MESA for DOS, which AFAIK it is not really possible nor is there interest, and in most cases there's not enough information on modern hardware to write said drivers.

Going a real roundabout way, people have run DOSBox for Windows IN pure DOS using HX-DOS DOS extender. http://www.xaver.me/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.HX-DOS
http://web.archive.org/web/20141003032417fw_/ … heth.de/HX.html
I *don't* know if anyone has tried anything weirder with it, like DOSBox+Glide-patch+OpenGlide+HX-DOS. IIRC HX-DOS permits OpenGL rendering using software rendering, but it's only fairly simple OpenGL support.

When you actually have the sourcecode to the (older) Windows game you want to play in pure DOS, you can sometimes make MESA be part of the toolchain as a new renderer. This is what happened with the new Quake 2 DOS with 3dfx Glide rendering: Quake 2 DOS with 3DFX Rendering [56k Warning]
However, that made an additional DOS Glide game, not fewer ones. 😉

A final note: a fair number of DOS Glide games were statically compiled with the Glide libraries. As of this writing, this makes them impossible to "wrap". The only thing that can be done with these is to use a DOS emulator with 3DFx support, such as DOSBox+kekko's Voodoo patch, or PCem, or (eventually) current versions of MAME. And these emulators all require Windows or Linux.

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do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 6 of 10, by root42

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BeginnerGuy wrote:
The Serpent Rider wrote:

To what would it wrap the Glide commands anyway?

*chuckles* S3D API

Nonsense, real men would do this in software.

edit: in 386 assembler as well, none of that wimpy C + inline

Reengine would probably target it to 8088@4.77 MHz and CGA...

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Reply 7 of 10, by gdjacobs

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BeginnerGuy wrote:

Nonsense, real men would do this in software.

edit: in 386 assembler as well, none of that wimpy C + inline

Nonsense. Real men hand write the machine code and, if possible, directly load the resulting binary using the front panel bootstrap switches.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 8 of 10, by BeginnerGuy

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gdjacobs wrote:
BeginnerGuy wrote:

Nonsense, real men would do this in software.

edit: in 386 assembler as well, none of that wimpy C + inline

Nonsense. Real men hand write the machine code and, if possible, directly load the resulting binary using the front panel bootstrap switches.

The power of the force has stopped you.. You hoser.

I concede to your manliness.

Sup. I like computers. Are you a computer?

Reply 9 of 10, by ruthan

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Stiletto: Thanks for explanation.. I started thinking about this, when is saw name of GliDos, at first i expected that someone already did it, you never know, people are clever and constantly making crazy stuff to happen.. BTW Mesa is somehow possible even on Amiga and its emulators.

fair number of DOS Glide games were statically compiled with the Glide libraries

What exactly this means, what is static library, where is the problem?

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 10 of 10, by leileilol

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If it's statically compiled it's stuck in that game's exe forever and you can't do any OVL replacing 'fixes'

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long live PCem